Members heartstrings Posted February 26, 2014 Members Share Posted February 26, 2014 I keep seeing topics by Paul Chappell and then here is one by David Cloud which exposes some of Chappell's dangerous associations with CCM, Calvinists, RIck Warren, 'contemplative mysticism' etc.. Who does the owner of this forum agree with; Chappell or Cloud? http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/paul_chappells_pragmatism_and_dangerous.html#unique-entry-id-1247 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mkrishna Posted February 26, 2014 Members Share Posted February 26, 2014 I keep seeing topics by Paul Chappell and then here is one by David Cloud which exposes some of Chappell's dangerous associations with CCM, Calvinists, RIck Warren, 'contemplative mysticism' etc.. Who does the owner of this forum agree with; Chappell or Cloud? http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/paul_chappells_pragmatism_and_dangerous.html#unique-entry-id-1247 I am assurming the owner agrees with Cloud rather than Chappell, since Chappell seems to be of the more easy believism Sword crowd that does not emphasize repentance in salvation, while Cloud emphasizes repentance, and this board seems to favor repentance in salvation. Just my guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted February 26, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 26, 2014 I am assurming the owner agrees with Cloud rather than Chappell, since Chappell seems to be of the more easy believism Sword crowd that does not emphasize repentance in salvation, while Cloud emphasizes repentance, and this board seems to favor repentance in salvation. Just my guess. What - seriously? Could you pass on your source for this statement? (Not challenging, just rather surprised. I wouldn't have thought Chappell to be guilty of such an accusation, and I'd like to know the facts.) 2T3:16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted February 26, 2014 Members Share Posted February 26, 2014 I have a few books of his, and have met him and spoken with him. He did not align with easy believism, nor was he calvinist when I spoke to him, and the books I have do not espouse these things. I have material from both Chappel and Cloud and said material is very good. I would not say either of them are without fault. John81 and TheSword 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted February 26, 2014 Members Share Posted February 26, 2014 I believe there was a statement from BroMatt that both were included for balance, and in part because there are people who support each of them here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted February 27, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2014 I think Cloud's primary issue is Chappel's approval of the church using modified CCM music, thus setting the stage for a move toward modernism. candlelight and swathdiver 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 27, 2014 Members Share Posted February 27, 2014 Someone posted about this and there was a posting of a sermon from Pastor Chappell explaining his stance regarding music. I don't know if anyone ever did bother to listen to the sermon, but it wasn't commented upon other than that the sermon was long. If I recall correctly, after I listened to the long sermon I posted the time one could advance to in order to hear the portion pertinent to the topic. Still... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted February 27, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 27, 2014 I've heard the music...don't need to listen to the sermon. Both men have strengths and both have weaknesses. Kinda like all of us. :D 2T3:16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miss Daisy Posted February 27, 2014 Members Share Posted February 27, 2014 I don't even know who Chapell is. Is he a preacher? Where? If he gives an inch now with music, he'll give a foot later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted February 27, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2014 I don't even know who Chapell is. Is he a preacher? Where? If he gives an inch now with music, he'll give a foot later. He's a pastor in California. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted February 27, 2014 Members Share Posted February 27, 2014 I don't even know who Chapell is. Is he a preacher? Where? If he gives an inch now with music, he'll give a foot later. He's very influential in IFB circles as he is also president of West Coast Baptist College in California. WCBC has been using watered down CCM music as does Lancaster Baptist Church which he pastors. Chapell is a prolific writer and his Sunday School materials are widely used too. I don't care for them, they remind me of watered down Christianity like Calvary Chapel stuff. He also posts quite regularly and many are quite good. However, when it comes to being wrong on separation and CCM adaptations for example, he's unrepentant and combative; in other words, prideful. candlelight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators OLD fashioned preacher Posted February 27, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2014 He's very influential in IFB circles as he is also president of West Coast Baptist College in California. WCBC has been using watered down CCM music as does Lancaster Baptist Church which he pastors. Chapell is a prolific writer and his Sunday School materials are widely used too. I don't care for them, they remind me of watered down Christianity like Calvary Chapel stuff. He also posts quite regularly and many are quite good. However, when it comes to being wrong on separation and CCM adaptations for example, he's unrepentant and combative; in other words, prideful. He's not influential with folks I know -- maybe I run squares or triangles instead of circles. Running in circles makes me dizzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted February 27, 2014 Members Share Posted February 27, 2014 He's not influential with folks I know -- maybe I run squares or triangles instead of circles. Running in circles makes me dizzy. There's lots of circles! Sword, Ruckman, Graham, etc. Some overlap, others never even close. Look at all these Gap Theorists who've shown up, never seen such until recently though its taught by Ruckman's camp for example. candlelight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MatthewDiscipleOfGod Posted February 27, 2014 Members Share Posted February 27, 2014 There's lots of circles! Sword, Ruckman, Graham, etc. Some overlap, others never even close. Look at all these Gap Theorists who've shown up, never seen such until recently though its taught by Ruckman's camp for example. That is why I try to make the Bible my source of theology. I love Cloud but where he departs from the Bible I depart from him. I love Gipp but where he departs of Biblical truth I depart from him. Before I was IFB I followed John MacArthur and believed pretty much whatever he said in his study Bible without taking the time to study the issues for myself. John81, swathdiver and Ukulelemike 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted February 28, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2014 That is why I try to make the Bible my source of theology. I love Cloud but where he departs from the Bible I depart from him. I love Gipp but where he departs of Biblical truth I depart from him. Before I was IFB I followed John MacArthur and believed pretty much whatever he said in his study Bible without taking the time to study the issues for myself. That's some good advice, of the kind I try to follow myself. There are areas in which I have found myself at odds with some IFB brethren, many of which I generally don't bring up because its not wirth the fight, nor are they issues of separation on my part, (though some see it as such), but as you say, I try to make the Bible my authority, not men, even good men, because we are all of us subject to being incorrect. Some here probably know the issues I speak of, as I have spoken them here. Not gap theory, though. heh. John81 and 2T3:16 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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