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I keep seeing topics by Paul Chappell and then here is one by David Cloud which exposes some of Chappell's dangerous associations with CCM, Calvinists, RIck Warren, 'contemplative mysticism' etc.. Who does the owner of this forum agree with; Chappell or Cloud?

 

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/paul_chappells_pragmatism_and_dangerous.html#unique-entry-id-1247
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

 

I keep seeing topics by Paul Chappell and then here is one by David Cloud which exposes some of Chappell's dangerous associations with CCM, Calvinists, RIck Warren, 'contemplative mysticism' etc.. Who does the owner of this forum agree with; Chappell or Cloud?

 

http://www.wayoflife.org/index_files/paul_chappells_pragmatism_and_dangerous.html#unique-entry-id-1247

 

I am assurming the owner agrees with Cloud rather than Chappell, since Chappell seems to be of the more easy believism Sword crowd that does not emphasize repentance in salvation, while Cloud emphasizes repentance, and this board seems to favor repentance in salvation. Just my guess.

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I am assurming the owner agrees with Cloud rather than Chappell, since Chappell seems to be of the more easy believism Sword crowd that does not emphasize repentance in salvation, while Cloud emphasizes repentance, and this board seems to favor repentance in salvation. Just my guess.

 

What - seriously? Could you pass on your source for this statement? (Not challenging, just rather surprised. I wouldn't have thought Chappell to be guilty of such an accusation, and I'd like to know the facts.)

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I have a few books of his, and have met him and spoken with him.
He did not align with easy believism, nor was he calvinist when I spoke to him, and the books I have do not espouse these things.

I have material from both Chappel and Cloud and said material is very good.

I would not say either of them are without fault.

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Someone posted about this and there was a posting of a sermon from Pastor Chappell explaining his stance regarding music. I don't know if anyone ever did bother to listen to the sermon, but it wasn't commented upon other than that the sermon was long. If I recall correctly, after I listened to the long sermon I posted the time one could advance to in order to hear the portion pertinent to the topic. Still...

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I don't even know who Chapell is. Is he a preacher? Where?

 

If he gives an inch now with music, he'll give a foot later.

 

He's very influential in IFB circles as he is also president of West Coast Baptist College in California.  WCBC has been using watered down CCM music as does Lancaster Baptist Church which he pastors.  Chapell is a prolific writer and his Sunday School materials are widely used too.  I don't care for them, they remind me of watered down Christianity like Calvary Chapel stuff.  He also posts quite regularly and many are quite good.  However, when it comes to being wrong on separation and CCM adaptations for example, he's unrepentant and combative; in other words, prideful. 

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He's very influential in IFB circles as he is also president of West Coast Baptist College in California.  WCBC has been using watered down CCM music as does Lancaster Baptist Church which he pastors.  Chapell is a prolific writer and his Sunday School materials are widely used too.  I don't care for them, they remind me of watered down Christianity like Calvary Chapel stuff.  He also posts quite regularly and many are quite good.  However, when it comes to being wrong on separation and CCM adaptations for example, he's unrepentant and combative; in other words, prideful. 

He's not influential with folks I know -- maybe I run squares or triangles instead of circles.  Running in circles makes me dizzy.

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He's not influential with folks I know -- maybe I run squares or triangles instead of circles.  Running in circles makes me dizzy.

 

There's lots of circles!  Sword, Ruckman, Graham, etc.  Some overlap, others never even close.

 

Look at all these Gap Theorists who've shown up, never seen such until recently though its taught by Ruckman's camp for example.

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There's lots of circles!  Sword, Ruckman, Graham, etc.  Some overlap, others never even close.

 

Look at all these Gap Theorists who've shown up, never seen such until recently though its taught by Ruckman's camp for example.

 

That is why I try to make the Bible my source of theology. I love Cloud but where he departs from the Bible I depart from him. I love Gipp but where he departs of Biblical truth I depart from him. Before I was IFB I followed John MacArthur and believed pretty much whatever he said in his study Bible without taking the time to study the issues for myself.

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That is why I try to make the Bible my source of theology. I love Cloud but where he departs from the Bible I depart from him. I love Gipp but where he departs of Biblical truth I depart from him. Before I was IFB I followed John MacArthur and believed pretty much whatever he said in his study Bible without taking the time to study the issues for myself.

That's some good advice, of the kind I try to follow myself.

 

There are areas in which I have found myself at odds with some IFB brethren, many of which I generally don't bring up because its not wirth the fight, nor are they issues of separation on my part, (though some see it as such), but as you say, I try to make the Bible my authority, not men, even good men, because we are all of us subject to being incorrect.  Some here probably know the issues I speak of, as I have spoken them here. Not gap theory, though. heh.

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Our church pianist, Jaron Canon, is extremely talented by God's gift (amazing child prodigy since he was 3 years old). He is the official pianist for WCBC chapel services along with Daniel Hopkins.  Lancaster Baptist Church (Paul Chapell) has two Sunday services.  One for the college students attending West Coast Baptist Bible College and one for the general population of Lancaster.  Jaron by conviction will only play in the WCBC services because the music in that service is markedly different than the music in the open to the public general service.  The instruction and teaching he is getting from Dr. Zachary at WCBC blurs the line often between CCM and Christ honoring music.  Jaron has been tasked to write and does write EVERY arrangement now by WCBC.  The last 3 plays put on by WCBC have featured music entirely written by Jaron.  Jaron has been my very close friend for over 12 years and I communicate with him or his family daily, so this is not hearsay from a friend of a friend of a friend.  While Paul Chapell has not yet fully embraced CCM, he is so close to it, it is not leaving him un-spotted.  If you are a student of WCBC and on this site, you can verify all that I just stated.

 

Bro. Garry

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Our church pianist, Jaron Canon, is extremely talented by God's gift (amazing child prodigy since he was 3 years old). He is the official pianist for WCBC chapel services along with Daniel Hopkins.  Lancaster Baptist Church (Paul Chapell) has two Sunday services.  One for the college students attending West Coast Baptist Bible College and one for the general population of Lancaster.  Jaron by conviction will only play in the WCBC services because the music in that service is markedly different than the music in the open to the public general service.  The instruction and teaching he is getting from Dr. Zachary at WCBC blurs the line often between CCM and Christ honoring music.  Jaron has been tasked to write and does write EVERY arrangement now by WCBC.  The last 3 plays put on by WCBC have featured music entirely written by Jaron.  Jaron has been my very close friend for over 12 years and I communicate with him or his family daily, so this is not hearsay from a friend of a friend of a friend.  While Paul Chapell has not yet fully embraced CCM, he is so close to it, it is not leaving him un-spotted.  If you are a student of WCBC and on this site, you can verify all that I just stated.
 
Bro. Garry


2blikeJesus, I have a friend that's considering Bible college at West Coast. Don't like the thought of him going there , based on what I've heard about the adapted CCM. Thank you for the above information. Can I ask you - in your opinion, based on your familiarity/observations, would a young man going to college there be encouraged at all toward CCM as a result of the teaching or leadership there?
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2blikeJesus, I have a friend that's considering Bible college at West Coast. Don't like the thought of him going there , based on what I've heard about the adapted CCM. Thank you for the above information. Can I ask you - in your opinion, based on your familiarity/observations, would a young man going to college there be encouraged at all toward CCM as a result of the teaching or leadership there?

 

My Pastor has two of his kids attending there, my associate Pastor has one son there, and then there is Jaron and Alyssa Canon.  So right now we have 5 of our best and brightest there. It is an excellent college and I would recommend it, BUT like any church or large organization it is not without it's faults or rough edges here and there. They are still solidly KJV only, and have very high standards of separation.  Music is the only thing that is wavering a bit, but then this is from Jaron and he has been under my Pastor for his entire life, because my Pastor has been at my church for over 20 years and is EXTREMELY strict on music.  I am not a musician, so I don't notice or hear some of the things he would reject a song over (such as jazz styling on even a single word).  With that in mind, and being a very talented musician and composer, Jaron's view on music may be much stricter than most where any kind of syncopated beat, or jazz styling may send up red flags to him that may fly right under the radar for others. 

 

Bro. Garry

 

P.S. Jaron once told me when we were discussing their music, how he is teaching them or pointing out things in the music that they have never considered.  Some of their leaning in the wrong direction could be through simple ignorance of music.  He told me Dr. Rasmussen, who he spent 24 hours a day for 6 weeks with, while on tour with the college singing group during summer, said "i will never listen to music the same way again'.

Edited by 2bLikeJesus
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I know quite a few graduates several of which indulge in CCM while most don't.  Being in Florida, also know more than a few PCC graduates and most listen to CCM.  PCC compromised long ago.  My oldest daughter will go there soon and I pray that she does not succumb to it.

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