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  1. DaveW

    My daughter to PNG

    My daughter, Hannah-Rose is a registered nurse. She has left Perth this afternoon to fly to Brisbane and then on to Port Morseby, Papua New Guinea. She will be serving at Kunai health clinic. The clinic is an independent baptist missionary run clinic with the purpose of reaching the people of the Kotidanga region and beyond for the Lord. I would appreciate prayer for her travel and for her service for the Lord into the future. Regards, DaveW
    9 points
  2. Since an answer does not seem forthcoming, allow me to provide the grammatical facts concerning the meaning and significance of the "archaic" pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye." Concerning PERSONAL PRONOUNS in English 1st person personal pronouns are those referring to one's self. 2nd person personal pronouns are those referring to another or others spoken to directly. 3rd person personal pronouns are those referring to another or others spoken about indirectly. Personal pronouns contain both singular and plural forms for the sake of accuracy, EXCEPT in the case of the 2n
    6 points
  3. DaveW

    My daughter to PNG

    Well, late last week they were able to fly up to the airstrip. First try on Friday was no good - cloud everywhere (Normal for PNG) and so the plane would not have been able to find the airstrip. They didn't even try. Saturday, they gave it a go, and the pilot said in 21 years of flying PNG he had NEVER seen it that clear.... Sunday, she was in Church at Kotidanga. She said the service was wonderful and she was able to follow the general line of the message - understood enough of the language to "sort of follow it". This week she ahs been observing clinic, in the mornings and hav
    5 points
  4. I'm a high school drop out though I have gotten my GED. I never read much more than the Sunday comics before I was saved at 18. I've never had a problem with the so-called "archaic" language of the KJV. In fact, I always enjoy looking up words I've never heard before. My friend who is the pastor of Amazing Grace Baptist Church in Oriskany Falls, NY grew up a farmer and dropped out of school in 7th grade and said he never read anything until he read the KJV. He credits the reading of the KJV for increasing his comprehension and cognitive abilities. He had graduated from his bible college
    5 points
  5. So my Dad's remaining brother contracted covid, as did his wife. (Just FYI - this is not a thread about covid, so don't make it so...just know that masking, "social" distancing, isolation, etc., were all practiced by the family and yet he and his wife contracted covid. Viruses are gonna virus...) My uncle, Dave, ended up in ICU on a respirator. Today I was told that they had to take him off everything - they had to remove air from around his heart and lungs, so the oxygen had to be removed. He had suffered a number of strokes and there is no brain activity. And they said it is only a matt
    4 points
  6. By the way, if a word is a more "archaic" English word, but is still retained in a modern English dictionary, then that word is STILL a part of the language that we use today, even it is only on a rare (or specialized) occasion. That word (whatever word it may be) has NOT yet been lost from the language altogether.
    4 points
  7. And there it is -- Avoid the question of ACCURACY in order to push your agenda of updating. You have again revealed your priorities. By the way, concerning the matter of accuracy and the "archaic" pronouns, with God indeed all things are possible; and God has already provided an answer -- Bible teachers who teach others the importance and meaning of those pronouns for the sake of accuracy. (Note: I myself did not know the grammatical significance of ANY pronouns, except that someone first taught me English grammar, so the need to be taught is NOT an argument against this provision.)
    4 points
  8. Yes, it IS "archaic" English, specifically for the sake of ACCURACY. So, you have now revealed what many have suspected. Removing that which you perceive as "archaic" is more important to you than retaining that which is important for ACCURACY. I must contend that such an attitude/philosophy of "updating" is an error. I will have nothing whatsoever at all to do with such an attitude/philosophy of "updating."
    4 points
  9. Brother "BibleBeliever," Do you understand the grammatical significance of the pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye"? If so, what do you understand that grammatical significance to be? In your opening question for this thread discussion, you ask about "a simple, ACCURATE KJV update." Understanding the grammatical significance for the pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye," I would contend that they are included in the King James translation for precise accuracy. Furthermore, I would contend that arguing for them to be removed is demonstrating an interest in "simplicity" AT THE EXPENSE of a
    4 points
  10. BB, don't set up straw men. Socialism isn't human beings helping their neighbors, it's the government taking your money to feed those who won't work for themselves (mostly the head honchos) in the vain attempt to end poverty. For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 2 Thess. 3:10 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. 1 Thess. 5:8 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good... Mark
    4 points
  11. IF one is the ONLY available translator (as per God's providence) in a particular case, and IF that one has no ability whatsoever with Hebrew and/or Greek, then the best available option would be to translate from the best language translation that IS known. IF that is the ONLY manner wherein a people group might acquire a translation in their language at a given time, then they should not be left in the dark; but the very best that could be done should be done. However, it certainly would be better to translate from the Hebrew and Greek, if any person with such ability can be made available
    4 points
  12. Indeed, I believe that "legalism" IS a Biblical concept, and a "bad" one at that. I believe that the Biblical concept concerns a reliance upon the law (a keeping of a set of commandments, whether God-made or man-made) as the foundational power either for salvation or for sanctification. I believe that the apostle Paul handled the matter of "legalism" concerning salvation throughout the epistle to the Romans and that he handled the matter of "legalism" concerning sanctification throughout the epistle to the Galatians. (The matter of Biblical "legalism" is also handled at various other places
    4 points
  13. Brother "SureWord," That is a valuable point to consider why the original translators chose the word "besom" in that context, rather than the word "broom." Whatever their reasoning may have been (if we are able to discern it) is worthy of consideration whether the word "besom" is more significant for the context than the word "broom."
    4 points
  14. Madison's final words during his introduction to congress for a 'Bill of Rights' "I think we should obtain the confidence of our fellow- citizens, in proportion as we fortify the rights of the people against the encroachments of the Government." James Madison
    3 points
  15. DaveW

    My daughter to PNG

    My Hannah-Rose has made it through the boredom of 2 weeks quarantine in a hotel in Port Moresby, and is currently spending the day with the missionaries, getting to know them and making last minute preparations before flying up to the Kotidanga region on Friday (that will be Thursday night for most of you!) The flight is by a single engined small transport - typically a Pilatus Porter or similar for those who care, and the airstrip on the mountain is slightly larger than a postage stamp. The pilots who fly in such places are absolute heroes. A one hour flight, assuming the weather is
    3 points
  16. Yes, besides being simple enough for the average person to understand it, simple enough for the common child, man or woman, simple enough that the "archaic"words can be found in almost any modern dictionary, far more accurate and true to the biblical texts than any other translation, the King James Version is, "beloved."
    3 points
  17. No, we do not use "thee" and "thou" in common communication today, which is the reason that I acknowledged those pronouns as "archaic" elements of the language. However . . . Actually, I would contend that we are NOT able to convey the distinction between singular and plural with as much precise accuracy in the common usage of today simply through the pronoun "you" (sing.) and "you" (pl.). In fact, this is part of the reason why in various areas of the country we find phrases like - "you all," "yous," "yous guys," etc. All of those phrases serve as an attempt (although not grammatic
    3 points
  18. WellWithMySoul, Thank you for your observation and thoughts. You are correct. The KJV is just fine, accurate, simple, loyal to the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts, and adequate to use in translating into foreign languages. Alan
    3 points
  19. This is why I favor the retention of the thees and thous. At the very least an update would have to have subscripts above the 2nd person pronouns with say an "s" or "p" above or in a margin. But I still would lean towards retaining them in the text. I would require something indicating this ifnormation. I have no interest in a update that reduces the amount of grammatical precision of the translation of the KJV.
    3 points
  20. Salyan, thank you for the strong dose of reality. Acts 5:29 (KJV) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
    3 points
  21. Quite right. They speak the Queen's English.
    3 points
  22. DaveW

    My daughter to PNG

    Kunai health clinic is in the northern Highlands, although about 5 years ago she went to the southern highlands for a couple of weeks, so she has an idea of what she is getting into. The Clinic is under the administration of some US missionaries, and it is a ministry of Kotidanga Baptist Church, which is the local IB church, pastored by a PNG national. She has now landed in Port Moresby, and is currently en route to the hotel where she will have to quarantine for two weeks. After that, she will spend a little time with the missionaries, John and Lena, before heading up to her new hom
    3 points
  23. My response to the OP: without question or doubt, no...to any "update". "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Heb. 4:12). "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it" (Is. 55:11). A thoughtful quote is: "Teachers may put good things into our head
    3 points
  24. I always give the KJV the benefit of that doubt and consider that the translators had a valid reason to choose the words they chose.
    3 points
  25. Brother "BibleBeliever," (Note: I intend the following with grace, but also with clarity.) Sure, I can let it go. However, this discussion between us most definitely HAS affected my view of your original topic for this thread discussion. Your original topic concerned the matter of updating/altering the present language of the King James translation to something that you view as more simple/modern. Since you are the one who initiated this thread discussion, you serve as the central representative of that idea within the context of this thread discussion. Even so, since (from my pe
    3 points
  26. I appreciate your comments and I think they show the right spirit in which most faithful King James Bible users approach the scriptures.
    3 points
  27. It is simply amazing that someone with a screen name of BibleBeliever would see nothing contradictory in engaging members on a message forum and asserting that the Bible does not say what it clearly does say. I posted the verses above to show beyond a shadow of a doubt, that in opposition to your assertion that unbelievers "can and do receive these things as they seek God", that there simply are no unbelievers that seek after God. God's Holy Spirt, the author of all Scripture, makes this fact clear to all by reaffirming that what was written in Romans 3:11 is further reinforced by Romans
    3 points
  28. Alan

    Quotations Anyone?

    "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." The Lord Jesus; Mathew 7:20
    2 points
  29. "A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." - John Adams
    2 points
  30. The meek man cares not at all who is greater than he, for he has long ago decided that the esteem of the world is not worth the effort. He develops toward himself a kindly sense of humor and learns to say, ’Oh, so you have been overlooked? They have placed someone else before you? They have whispered that you are pretty small stuff after all? And now you feel hurt because the world is saying about you the very things you have been saying about yourself? Only yesterday you were telling God that you were nothing, a mere worm of the dust. Where is your consistency? Come on, humble yourself, and c
    2 points
  31. I read it all but these two areas I could identify with most. The first quote is something I came to realize, the intimate and personal relationship with Jesus Christ and in Christ alone. The second quote I have sufficient means for all my needs. Now, this said, I'm still being sanctified. I think the Lord is working in the hearts of His own to prepare us for His soon meeting with us. Thank you for your openness and honesty. I've just recently had a realization of a lack of prayer but mine is a need to pray always, especially during difficulties no matter how much I would like to 'hand
    2 points
  32. Indeed, I have a story about how Scripture (unadulterated by men) changed my future and the futures of my sphere of influence. For over 30 years I was deceived by a "gospel message" that counted the costs of my belief for me. Everything changed eight years ago. I began an experiment based on God's Word. God tells us that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. It doesn't say by reading, it says by "hearing". I know, seems like a semantics argument but in the reality of practice it is far from it. At first I had to force myself to listen but it did not take long at all before I starte
    2 points
  33. This might be a composite of quotations, but: "When we preach, we stand, not at a pulpit, but on a throne. We cannot play at preaching: Life, Death, Heaven and Hell all hang on the preaching and hearing of a sermon." CH Spurgeon This used to hang on my office when I was first a pastor, (and wen I had an office).
    2 points
  34. I heard a preacher once say that Jeremiah is a good book to study for the man of God in the latter days or who is laboring in a very hard area. This is because despite all his preaching and crying over souls Jeremiah only had one convert and that was Baruch.
    2 points
  35. We know this has to do with God's completed word, and not the coming of Christ, because, 1: Jesus had already come, and if it referred to Jesus, surely it would say, "He that is perfect is come again" and 2: Because the scripture, in context, has to do with the supernatural receiving/giving of God's words, through prophecy, tongues and (supernatural) knowledge, or revelation. This is how the Lord gave His word, from Genesis to Revelation-so, in that context, the things we know only in part, (at that time, the word not yet being complete, and only incomplete parts given at any o
    2 points
  36. Ukulelemike

    "Good" Friday?

    Well, as for the difference between the third day, and after the third day, that is a difference that I suppose ew may not understand this side of heaven. It may be that He rose, or came alive, ON the third day, but did not rise, or leave the tomb, until AFTER the third day. A Wednesday crucifixion would not have Him in the tomb 3-1/2 days and nights, because the time of His death isn't the same as the time in the tomb, which is what the timing is set to. 3 days, three nights in the heart of the earth, or the tomb. That being the case. then He was only in the tomb for 3 days, and maybe a
    2 points
  37. Rebecca

    Persecution

    I have to amend my above comment as I was reminded of a situation where the new regulations have affected Christians, although they were not specifically targeted. One of the ways Taiwan has been successful in combating the virus is because they closed their borders. In order to come to Taiwan you have to meet strict criteria. There are new missionaries who were set to arrive in Taiwan this year, but due to the new regulations and not being far enough along in their paperwork they did not meet the new requirements so they cannot come to Taiwan. Two new missionary families arrived just last mon
    2 points
  38. SureWord

    Proverbs

    Not really considered proverbs but more tongue-in-cheek maxims but I always found some truth in Murphy's Law and it's corollaries. "Only the tool you can’t find is the one you need right now." "Anything dropped will find the most inaccessible place to rest" Anyone working on a car or really anything mechanical will finds these two adages to be true on more than one occasion.
    2 points
  39. Rebecca

    Persecution

    Here in Taiwan there have been no infringements on religious freedoms. The regulations due to Covid can be inconvenient at times, especially now as we are entering the Chinese New Year week. However, these regulations are not as insane as other countries, and are not targeted to certain groups, religious or otherwise. I am very thankful for the freedoms we can still enjoy here and pray for those who are beginning to experience persecution.
    2 points
  40. Thank you. Glad to know you're home and recovering. Will be praying for you. ~~~~ And the other day we received the news that my oldest brother had tested positive. He is showing no symptoms, and is going to get a second test (because so many of the positives are false). But he is also going to see his doctor and getting on a regimen of things to combat the virus if it is indeed in him.
    2 points
  41. So, as another has already asked earlier - How would you propose to retain that information if you chose not to use the "archaic" pronouns "thee," "thou," and "ye"?
    2 points
  42. 1994? That would be archaic by now. We need at least 10 updates every year to keep things updated among the updates or all the college graduates who've dumped 200 grand into their educations won't be able to understand the bible they don't even read. You really never hear a Kentucky hillbilly complaining the"archaic language of the antiquated Authorized Version". It's usually some bible scholar looking to pump out a new translation, or apparently now that many Christians have figured out the con job, a new update of the KJV. $$$$ Every Christian I've heard complain about the "thee's
    2 points
  43. People can read the King's English. That's what counts. Yes, the gospel. As I said previously the gospel is all that God has to say to the lost. I've read this is quite common these days to translate from the KJV itself.. In China there also is a movement among Christians who only preach and teach from the KJV believing it is the pure words of God.
    2 points
  44. Thanks. Unfortunately, that would not be the proper way to translate to the other language. You would want someone who is a linguist to translate from the original Greek/Hebrew to get the most accurate translation. A lot is lost when you translate from one language to another and it is always best to go back to the original language.
    2 points
  45. I was responding to the OP, but it still stands for me that though I am not a linguist, I would still use a KJV (not "updated") to translate to the foreign language.
    2 points
  46. You won't be quoting the NLT to the "non-believer that you meet on the street" either. Or, for that matter any other version unless you just happen to have your large print New Living Translation with you as you approach Walmart. So, that argument doesn't fit either. No, you still won't admit that the 1769 has MANY changes to words. The "v" for "u" was one of 1000s. I think you were caught off guard when you discounted significant changes from 1611 to 1769 only to find there are thousands. We have the best Bible available to english speaking people and it has been for almost 300 years. Yo
    2 points
  47. You are reading something into the passage that's not there. There's the natural man and the spiritual. The unregenernated and regenerated. The saved and the lost. The Christian and the non-Christian. There is nothing in between. A Christian may be carnal in behavior but he in still a spiritual man with the mind in Christ in him. It's just a matter of yielding to that mind. The bible was not intended for the natural, i.e. lost man.
    2 points
  48. Brethren, I want to thank all of you for participating in the study on, "After the Tribulation 'they shall gather his elect.' I appreciate your kind comments and take note of any other comment. Here is the link to the PDF, "After the Tribulation - They Shall Gather the Elect," PDF, free:https://preceptpublications.org/After the Tribulation 02.01.21.pdf The PDF file contains a lot more information than I put on this study here on Online Baptist. If you have a question, or a comment, on the material within the PDF study than please bring it to our attention. I would like to add t
    2 points
  49. Hmmm. The following is what you said -- So, if you you actually believe that the references to "the things" in verse 14 is contextually connected to "the things" in verses 10-11, let us consider how "the things" are presented in verses 10-11. 1. In the opening portion of verse 10, we learn that God has revealed them ("the things which God hath prepared for them that love him" from verse 9) unto us believers specifically by His Spirit. (Note: This grammatical construction indicates that we should not contextually separate the statement of verse 10 from the statement of verse 9.
    2 points
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