DaveW

I come and read on occasion, but unless there is something I think is worth my time I don't post. And certainly there is no point replying to false teachers with attitude, which is the majority of false teachers who come here.... They don't really come for discussion or to learn, but to push their books and/or their agenda. That was proven to me again with my last post. The other main option seems to be baiting....... This probably makes about 5 posts in the last two years...... and two in the last month or so.... I'm on a roll.

I rarely post now but this has me incensed. And as with the few other posts I have made over the last few years, I almost certainly will not respond here. I have here following discredited the misuse of these Bible passages, and unless there is biblical evidence against my statements there is no reason for me to respond. I will not be arguing about this. Gen 2:7 (7) And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Eze 37:7-10 (7) So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. (8) And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. (9) Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. (10) So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. Ecc 11:5 (5) As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Let’s look at this…… explanation…. Of this man’s opinions from an actual Biblical perspective. “Dr. Robert S. Morley (Here's my post without the examples of how Ecclesiastes 11:5 is translated in the ESV and NAB, which some might find displeasing. I've only used the KJV and have included Clarke and Benson as examples of how others interpret the KJV.)” First thing to note is that this man has been told to use KJV as it is this site’s rule to do so. He has been informed of this officially by at least one Mod, so this is a deliberate and knowing breach of forum rules, showing that he has no respect for the forum rules or the mods. “I believe early abortion is a solution for incest, rape, and other unwanted pregnancies that avoids "killing" human beings.” What you “believe” is irrelevant – what does the Bible actually say? And it is interesting that he not only uses the very rare situations of “incest, rape” but then extends it to the far more common “unwanted pregnancies”. These are his words, and as such he obviously believes in abortion for any reason. He includes the limiters of “incest, rape” to make it seem like he is reasonable, but he then removes the limits by making it “”other unwanted pregnancies” without limitation or definition. This is deceitful presentation. “The creation account of Genesis 2:7 and the reassembling of human life in Ezekiel 37:7-10 show a two stage process where the physical precedes the soul. They read as follows: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Gen. 2:7 KJV).” First instance is the original special creation of the first man, Adam, not the natural birth process. This is in no way a representation of “normal” pregnancy and birth. There is no womb mentioned, there is no conception mentioned, there is no pregnancy mentioned. This is not in any way a normal natural pregnancy, and as a result of it being unique and special in every way, this passage CAN NOT be used in the way that this man is using it. It is simply not relevant to the argument. “"So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army" (Ezek. 37:7-10 KJV)” This also is in no way speaking of the natural and normal way of birth. This is a miraculous re-formation of people – if this man’s theory is correct then we also MUST accept that tehw ay a body is formed follows every aspect of this account. That means that a baby forms in this order – the bones first, then the sinews, then the flesh, and then the skin forms over it, and ONLY then the breath comes upon that child FROM THE FOUR WINDS……. Clearly this is not true, and therefore neither is his premise that the creation of a child is a two part formation. This account ahs NOTHING to do with the creation of a child in the womb. “Ecclesiastes 11:5 reads, "As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all" (KJV). Some commentries on this verse suggest the possibility of a two-phase process in human formation. For example, Clarke's commentry reads, "thou canst not tell . . . how their soul is united to their body, how it came to inform that body, or how the child was formed in the womb of its mother." The Benson Commentary of Ecclesiastes 11:5 interprets the KJV similarly. It reads, "As thou knowest not the way of the spirit — Of the soul of man, how it comes into the child in the womb; or how it is united with the body; or how, and whether it goes out of the body."” Ecc 11:5 (5) As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all. Where does this in any way indicate a “Two stage human formation” – if anything it indicates that the spirit is not a part of the physical formation of a person, but it doesn’t indicate in any way that such formation is done in two separate stages. This is in my opinion a deceitful misuse of this verse as there is simply nothing in it which indicates what is represented by this man. Even Benson in his commentary does not suggest what this man is suggesting. He talks of the soul of man but not of a separate timing of it being joined into the physical form of a baby. To suggest otherwise is twisting the commentators words, let alone the Bible itself. “If the biblical accounts that show two stages of human formation are a template for how human life develops, which some commentators of Ecclesiastes 11:5 suggest possible, then ensoulment occurs some time after conception. Consequently, a human zygote would not have a soul and would not yet be a human being.” But the Biblical accounts simply DO NOT show this. The first is an event of special creation, not even a pregnancy, the second is an account of special re-formation not normal birth and again not pregnancy, and the third makes note only of the spirit as being distinct from the physical, and nothing at all of the separate formation of these things or of the timing being separate in any way. There is nothing in these verses that indicate a separate “ensoulment” (not a biblical term by the way), and absolutely nothing that indicates that some sort of “ensoulment occurs some time after conception”. This is 100% this man's theory based apparently upon his ideas that he has imposed upon certain verses that CLEARLY don't say what he is telling us they say. Since these three passages are erroneously used, and they clearly do not say what this man suggests they say, his conclusion is obviously incorrect. A human Zygote – which I will note has everything that it needs to grow into a full and complete human being, including a protective environment provided by the Lord – as far as I can see has a soul as soon as it is created. There is no verse that this man has shown that would indicate otherwise. “Furthermore, “the 1 in 2 loss of zygotes, spontaneous abortions, and the human response to them, may corroborate that a gap exists between conception and personhood” (Preface – Abortion and the Bible: Can Pro-life and Pro-choice Both Be Right?).” This last phrase comes from a man who has no idea of what he is speaking. My wife and I have suffered 5 miscarriages, and to call them spontaneous abortions, whilst medically correct, shows that he has no compassion for those who have suffered such. The loss of a child through natural sin affected means is not the same as a deliberate act of ending a life, but it is still a devastating event in the life of a couple. So this one instance of a “human response to the loss of a zygote” disproves emphatically your last paragraph. You sir are not qualified to teach the Bible, and that is obvious by your travesty of the misuse of these three passages at least, and corroborated by your absolute lack of compassion for those who have suffered in this way. And in any case, if someone has no apparent response of loss and grief, that doesn't mean there is any gap between personhood and conception. People respond differently to different events, but a different response does not change the event.

Do not ask me questions about this post, because I am simply quoting from an article I have. I do not agree with this personally. I do know the person who wrote the article, but I do not feel I have the right to name him, so do not ask. I will not explain any point of it further because it is not my article, I did not write it, I do not agree with it, and I should not therefore explain it. I provide it simply because it seems to me that it at least in part provides some answer to your question. If you want any clarification on any part of it, I am both unable and unwilling to give such. I also do not know why he chose to use red to highlight portions. This potentially causes confusion, as most of us are used to "red letter" Bibles, where the red indicates the words of Christ. It is not important, but it is confusing to those who are used to red letter Bibles.

You are not alone brother.... Rom 7:22-25 (22) For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: (23) But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (24) O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (25) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Pro 26:4-5 (4) Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. (5) Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

I rarely post here, but this brings me to my favourite Calvinist question - surely you have an answer for me. Can you show me a clearly stated testimony of salvation for Calvin please? And whilst you are at it, you might give your own testimony of salvation. I will not answer, for I have no interest in any sort of debate, but would dearly love for SOME Calvinist to give me a clear record of Calvin's salvation testimony. Preferably something in his own words, and not what others have said of him. This should be an easy question to answer, and it requires no further clarity so there is no need for you to ask me all sorts of questions (which I will not answer anyway). If you refuse to give such a reference, I will have to assume it is because you either do not understand salvation yourself, or you cannot find such a testimony for Calvin. No one has yet provided any such thing to me, in spite of asking this question of Calvinists for the last 15 years.

My Hannah-Rose is back home safe and sound. The Lord worked everything in such a way that there was a small window of opportunity where everything worked together to get her back home by Christmas Eve, so she was able to spend Christmas with her family. After a full few days of visiting people, and a busy Sunday at church with everyone wanting to talk about everything PNG, she is now under my orders to sit at home and rest. She is now intending on getting a nursing job here at home and doing some more nursing study while she waits for the Lord to open another opportunity for her to serve in a similar ministry. Thanks for your prayers.

We have managed to get a flight for her to Brisbane, which is in the State of Queensland. And it is a direct flight, so 3 hours and no stops. Blessings. There she will have to stay in "Hotel Quarantine" for two weeks, before boarding a flight home to Perth (the other side of Australia, in Western Australia). Actually a longer flight than from PNG, around 5 1/2 hours. Yes it is THAT far. It is basically like a flight from New York to San Francisco: top right to bottom left of the nation. The current rules might make it difficult for her to get into WA, and even if we can get her back home, she will then (most likely) have to be in home isolation for another two weeks. We have the funds to pay for all of this as the Lord has provided bountifully. The clinic is actually closing officially tomorrow, and then she has to fly from the Highlands to Port Moresby, if the weather permits, on Itty Bitty Airlines (not its real name...). The intervening time between now and the 3rd Dec will be spent packing and rolling everything up. Flight to Aus is the 10th. The Lord is providing in all sorts of ways. Sad to see that ministry closing, but happy to be seeing our oldest little girl again soon. Please keep the local IB church and Pastor (Pastor Ben)in prayer up there, and be praying for the missionary family who will continue their support work up there, and the schooling ministry that will also continue there. Thanks folks, Dave.

A final update for the folk here who care. For all sorts of reasons the Clinic is having to close down. Covid and the PNG government are making it almost impossible to get staff. Hannah-Rose has been running the clinic on site for these past months, with the Missionaries keeping track of the official side of things, but without more staff to help at the clinic, and with the government causing difficulties the decision has been made to close the clinic. They are all devastated, but accepting that the Lord is moving them on. Please pray that we can get Hannah-Rose flights back to Australia, and then back home to Perth. It is difficult getting into Australia at the moment. What should be a 3 hour flight looks to be a multi stop flight taking 42 hours.... That is if we can get her a seat. Please pray also for her future leading to other ministry opportunities. Thanks folks. Dave

Or dealing with people..... I need no advice, no rebuke, no encouragement - the purpose is to give you a laugh, because that's about all that can be done. I have been preaching verse by verse through a book for adult Sunday School. Someone said to me that they don't come to Sunday School because they don't like that style of preaching. Morning service I am preaching through a list of questions that people put on a list for that purpose. Someone said to me that there has been some discussion and 'a few people' have mentioned that they are getting more out of the SS series than out of the "snippets"( their word) I am doing for the morning service, and that I should swap them. And apparently I am preaching too much about salvation. Yep, you read that right. Last few week's messages have had a mention of salvation, but as a portion, not the focus. You can please some of the people some of the time....... but you can't slap any of them anytime.

I miss the reasoned, godly voice and advice of my friend Alan. I miss his lessons posted here. I miss his input to the discussions. Mostly I miss his gentle advice, direction, and when necessary, rebukes. Pro 27:6(a) Faithful are the wounds of a friend; Pro 27:17 (17) Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Although we never met face to face, I count him as a true friend, and look forward to the day when we do meet face to face, as we glory in the Lord together.

Long story short - the PNG government has changed the visa requirements for those at the clinic, and it has caused some problems. As a result it is difficult for new staff to get in, and some have had to leave. This all means that Hannah-Rose is now basically running the clinic. She is doing fine in most respects, misses her family and home church, but loves the work, the church there in Kotidanga, and loves the people she is working with and for.

Just trolling through old posts and found this one. Time for an update: Isaiah 29 currently. 2 years....... AM service is answering questions people are asking on a sign up sheet. Been very interesting so far. PM is nominally "Ships". (But this can be anything from Noah's Ark to fishing boats to friendSHIP and fellowSHIP). But 29 chapters in 100ish weeks....

I got a report from an evangelist friend who has been visiting Myanmar over the last several years. He is keeping in touch with his local Christian contacts and the other day got a report. It is certainly not improving from the reports earlier in this thread. Keep them in prayer.

Well, late last week they were able to fly up to the airstrip. First try on Friday was no good - cloud everywhere (Normal for PNG) and so the plane would not have been able to find the airstrip. They didn't even try. Saturday, they gave it a go, and the pilot said in 21 years of flying PNG he had NEVER seen it that clear.... Sunday, she was in Church at Kotidanga. She said the service was wonderful and she was able to follow the general line of the message - understood enough of the language to "sort of follow it". This week she ahs been observing clinic, in the mornings and having intensive language studies in the afternoons. She is a little overwhelmed, but loving it. This is what the Lord made her for. The others at the clinic are wonderful, and have all been through this already of course, so they are helping her out, and apparently loving her being there already. Thanks for the prayers folks.