DaveW

If you are having a civil ceremony what difference does it make who performs it?

Oh, I'm sorry - you specifically said "chips" were mentioned. So, you are actually making the assumption that chips are involved in the process?

Hmmm I can't think of where chips are mentioned in Revelation... Could you point me to the passage?

Why would anyone want to start an argument over a post that is now more than ten years old, and whose participants for the most part are not even on here any more?

I don't get why this is such an issue for so many people. What we see in the Bible is that churches are started under the authority of other churches. This IS the Biblical pattern. Who cares if you can or can't trace your church back to the Jesus? As I already answered in the other thread, what is most important is what a church is doing today, and how churches are started today - is it Biblical. This "you can't trace your church back so it can't be true" is a total red herring. The only ones I see making an issue out of it are those who want to dispute the idea of authority. That's how I see it.

Praying.

Scripture to back up "what you believe"?

Eric, you have not researched either the science nor the biblical context to support you assertion. This is quite normal for you. And it is quite plain that you are not interested in gentle correction, which is why the majority of the time people pay little attention to your assertions. And I absolutely believe what the Bible says - just not what you suggest it says.

I know what Acts 17:6 is describing. I also don't disagree that Isaiah 24 is describing a physical judgement of the Earth. I absolutely disagree with you correlation of that passage to "pole shift", and I have explained why. You have a habit of overstating and jumping to unreasonable conclusions, and I think most of the time we are happy to let you do so without challenge, but this link is both scientifically and theologically wrong.

I have very little to add to Jim's statement. My point in making the correction is that as independent Baptists (individual and independent churches) we try to follow what the Bible says. If you would like to read 1 Timothy 3: 1Ti 3:1-7 (1) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. (2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (3) Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; (4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) (6) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. (7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. I will point out to you that the term bishop is a biblical term, but not in the way the Catholic church uses it. I will further point out to you that the term "husband" in vs 2 is specifically masculine in its meaning and application, thus prohibiting the appointing of women to the position of bishop, pastor, elder (the three interchangeable and biblical terms for a pastor), and further more the term "wife" in vs 2 is specifically feminine, thus restricting the partner of a bishop (pastor, elder) to being a woman. I know that many groups try to change this passage to say "spouse of one spouse", but the language used absolutely does not allow it, therefore a Pastor, bishop, Elder, must be a man, and his spouse must be a woman. The KJV uses those terms because they are gender specific and they accurately reflect the meaning behind the words. Thus, according to the Bible, a woman cannot be a Pastor, and a member of a same sex couple cannot be a Pastor. In both cases they do not fit the biblically laid out qualifications. The church you contacted probably does not want to put in writing something that could open them up to lawsuit by those who seek to damage Christianity. And no, Independent Baptist Churches are not ruled over by a governing body. We are individual separate churches, who on occasion will join together to fellowship with like minded churches, but we do not have any authority over one another.

I believe it has nothing to do with any sort of "pole shift". Your linking this verse to the pseudo scientific theory of "pole shift" is wrong on every level. The Pseudo scientific "pole shift" theory has to do not with the physical poles, but with the magnetic poles reversing polarity, ie, the north pole MAGNETICALLY becomes the sought pole, and vice versa. It has nothing to do with any sort of physical rotation of the earth across its axis. I haven't done a full study of this chapter yet, but it seems as though it is talking of a great devastation that would come upon the land, but I don't think it means the earth will literally turn over. Tell me Eric, what does this verse mean? Act 17:6 (6) And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also; My points are primarily that you, by your title, have linked the phrase "earth upside down" to a pole shift, but the pseudo scientific theory of pole shift DOES NOT refer to a physical shifting of the poles but the magnetic shifting of the poles; and secondarily, that the phrase earth upside down, does not automatically mean a physical turning of the world upside down. I am currently studying Isaiah, and in about 2 years time when I eventually get to Isaiah 24 I will let you know my thoughts specifically - if I remember after all that time.

The earth will not turn over. Any pseudo science "pole shift" is referring to the reversal of the magnetic poles, not the physical rotation of the earth top to bottom. And it is entirely theoretical. It is entirely possible that if such a thing were to happen the only thing people would notice is that their compasses point the wrong way. And the birds get confused.......

"Reverend" is not a biblical term for a church leader in any case.

And we can even take a simple approach: Joh 3:15-16 (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Note that in speaking about being born again Jesus uses the names "Eternal life" and "Everlasting life" when talking about this kind of life. I know this is simplistic, but something is not everlasting if there is ANY WAY AT ALL that it could end. And something is not Eternal if there is ANY WAY AT ALL that it could come to an end. I now I am simple, but when God calls it eternal life and everlasting life, I believe Him. That alone is enough for me to read a passage that seems like it might be talking about losing salvation, and say to myself "there must some other explanation, because salvation is ETERNAL LIFE".

Last year finished neatly with our adult SS series coming to an end as we closed off for the year. Traditionally this church has taken a Sunday School break over the Christmas school break time (Australia remember - this is our "long break"). So I had a few weeks to ponder the new Adult Sunday School direction. (I will often try to take a bit of time when the load is lighter and plan the coming year). One of the ladies of our church came to me and said that she had started reading Isaiah and was finding it difficult, and noted that she had never heard anyone preach through Isaiah. So I decided to go through Isaiah for our Adult Sunday School. Now our format is a more technical teaching time in Sunday School, but we also only have around 20 mins of teaching time. So as I have begun the study, and then two weeks ago started the lessons, I noted to the people here that even with a chapter a week it would take us 66 weeks to finish it, but with only a short lesson time, I was expecting to be complete sometime around 2048...…….. It is such a long book that I suspect that is why so few preach through it - it is a huge commitment for both the Pastor and the listeners. And of course it is very complex with the intertwining of history, prophecy, and teaching, etc - and I want to do it properly. Everyone is excited as we are starting it - including me - but I am nervous about it also. Anyway - just thought I would chat about it here a little. Our basic run down at this time is: Isaiah - Adult Sunday School; Biblical Worship - main service; Rejoicing - Evening Service. Prayer Meeting is a devotion time, not a full message, and shared between myself and some of the men, with the emphasis of time upon sharing prayer requests and praying together. And I am running a DVD series on personal spiritual health early Sunday afternoons. (I meant to add in that I will preach as the Lord leads off these topics - I am not so strict with my schedule that it is absolutely unchangeable.) What series are you preparing/ progressing through right now?