Jump to content
Online Baptist


Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by DaveW

  1. DaveW

    Local Church

    I didn't think you did believe that baptism is a part of salvation, but the verses that I have pointed to show that in order to make "church" from that passage the universal group of all believers, a person MUST believe in baptismal regeneration, for the order of events is indisputable. The order of events in vs 41 is: received the word, baptised, added unto them - this order states clearly that they were baptised before they were added (vs 47 identifies what they were added to, the church). There are two possible ways to look at this passage then - either: "the church" mentioned is not the universal group of all believers, and then we can easily say that salvation and baptism are not part of the same process, or "the church" IS the universal group of all believers, in which case baptism is clearly a requirement to finish salvation, for it is ONLY AFTER being baptised that they were added to the church. This is the simple issue in this passage - the order is exceptionally plain - received the word (saved) THEN baptised, THEN added unto them (the church). This is what the Bible says - there is no way around this matter. either it is a local church and salvation is totally separate to baptism and totally separate to being added to the church, or it is a universal church and baptism comes after receiving the word, BUT before being added The order of the events mentioned in Acts 2:41 is clear: Received (saved) -----------------------------> Baptised -------------------------------> Added (vs 47 to the church). If church is universal group of all believers, then baptism MUST happen before you are added to that group. This equals baptismal regeneration, or baptism as part of salvation. If church is local church. then salvation can still add to the group of all believers (unstated in this passage), but then the order remains as above, baptised, then added to the local church.. Salvation is separate to baptism, and baptism is separate to church membership - the timing of these things is not referenced in the passage ONLY THE ORDER. And vs 47 does not say that baptism doesn't come before church membership - that would contradict vs 41. Vs 47 simple omits that information because it is commentary, not instruction. That they were baptised is already referred to in vs 41. I have done nothing more than highlight the order of these events from the Bible passage, and show the logical conclusions involved. There would appear to be no further purpose to me taking part in this discussion as I will only be restating the same information.
  2. DaveW

    Local Church

    Well then, according to the plain order of events laid out in Acts 2:41, you MUST believe that baptism is part of salvation, because the order is: recieved the word, THEN baptized, THEN added unto them (the church). If the church is that universal group of all believers then according to Acts 2:41 baptism completes your salvation. If however the church is local, the order does not add baptism to salvation, but they three separate events, occurring in a specific order: salvation, baptism, added to a local church. Scripture is absolutely clear on this point of the order of events. Universal church nessecitates baptismal regeneration, local church shows them as separate events.
  3. DaveW

    Ages Digital Library software.

    Actually, I finally got a reply, and they apparently have a version that will work for me, but it is more than just the Spurgeon disk I have. I will have to purchase it again, but if I return the disk I have I will possibly get a discount. They will then supply my old disk to someone who can use it, most likely in a "third world country" where older computers and OS are still used. Edit to add: the "they" I mention are the keepers of the software - I think brother Markle is mostly correct in that the "Ages Software" mob are no longer doing their thing as far as I can tell, but these keepers of the software are doing their best to keep "old but useful" software available. And not just the Ages Library.
  4. Many, many years ago I came across "The C.H. Spurgeon Collection" for a super bargain basement price - so I grabbed it. Now I am not a huge Spurgeon fan, but I can appreciate his body of work. When we upgraded the church computer, we went to a 64bit system, and it seems as though no matter what I do, the Ages software will not load. I have downloaded the PDF's from the disk (that is the storage format), but the beauty of the software is that it gives a great index system. I can print the index, but then have to go and find the individual PDF files - painful...…. (21st century problems hey?! 🙄) So, any of you pooter gurus know of any way to get this thing working? Extra info: I have tried compatibility mode - the problem is that the program appears to be totally incompatible with a 64bit system. Extra extra info: Win 10, on a pooter that is less than 2 years old, and still well capable of keeping up with anything that I need to run. It NEVER gives me performance issues. And yes - I have wanted to reference some of this material in the last two years since our Pooter upgrade, just not enough to find the disk and do it. I came across the disk the other day whilst looking for something else and thought I should load it up. Extra, extra, extra info - It seems like the Ages software site has not been maintained in this respect - I would be more than happy to get a link showing otherwise. Thanks folks, Dave.
  5. DaveW

    Local Church

    "Salvation adds to His Church" in respect to this one single portion, can I ask you to consider something? Act 2:41 (41) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. and: Act 2:47 (47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. verse 47 clarifies exactly what they were added to - I think there is little debate about that point - added to the church. However, in considering this passage, what is the order of events here? Is it not "received his word" (saved), then "baptised", then "added unto them" (the church: see vs 47)? It is very clear that baptism comes before being added to the church - so if we believe that baptism is not part of salvation (and I certainly believe that baptism is not part of salvation), then we have to understand a couple of things from this passage. These people were added not to the group of all believers, for that is salvation, and they were clearly baptised BEFORE being added. The church being spoken of here MUST be a local church, or else you MUST follow after baptism being a part of salvation. The order is clearly noted - "received his word" (saved), then "baptised", then "added unto them" (the church: see vs 47). And before someone tries to make this baptism something other than water baptism: Act 2:38 (38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Peter, in this verse is clearly noting that "baptism" in this context is a separate thing to the "receiving of the Holy Spirit". This baptism IS NOT HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM, because Peter say it is not...... (And I don't believe that Peter is teaching baptism is part of salvation either, but if we go down that trail we will simply be adding confusion - one passage at a time folks.) Funny isn't it, that my use of these passages seems to support baptismal regeneration - but ONLY if you accept the idea of a universal church - if the Bible is speaking of a local church ONLY in this passage, then it absolutely defies the concept of baptismal regeneration...….
  6. I recently spoke to a kind hearted gentleman who simply wants to help the homeless, the fatherless, and the helpless in my community. He came across a "ministry" of Joyce Meyers, called Hand of Hope, and decided that it sounded just like what he wanted to be involved in. Turns out that if he pays them $1000, they will make up to a million dollars available to him to start a Hand of Hope supported ministry to the homeless. So he stumped up $1000 to Joyce Meyers, and is now waiting for the next step...…... If this came in a letter from Nigeria, hardly anyone would give it a second look, because it would obviously be a scam, but Joyce Meyers name on it, and this guy - and I can only assume many others, throw money at them. It will be interesting to see what happens. If they have a million dollars to give out, why do they need his $1000? And they told him to download a phone app so they talk privately. Anyone else heard of this sort of thing? - I did a brief search but couldn't turn up any other instances of people being required to donate before getting this help.
  7. DaveW

    Local Church

    Were the 12 disciples saved? (aside from Judas)? Were they gathered together for the purpose of serving the Lord and doing His will? Were they baptised? Were they organised and orderly? What more did the disciples and Jesus need to be classified as a church? If it swims like a duck, and flies like a duck, if it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck, what do you think it might be?
  8. DaveW

    Local Church

    What are the requirements for a church to be a church?
  9. DaveW

    Looking to convert.

    Not many IFB churches officially identify as such - most just call themselves independent Baptist. It is the clear reliance on the Bible, and the intent to follow the Bible in all things that separates a poor church from a fundamental Baptist church.
  10. DaveW

    Local Church

    Well, Jesus is talking to the disciples at that time - the obvious conclusion is that they are the church he was talking to. They were baptized believers, they were organized as displayed by the fact that they had a Pastor and a treasurer, and they were gathered to do the will of God - what else do they need to be a church?
  11. DaveW

    Way of Life:Friday Church News Notes

    She doesn't realise that Jefferson used that very Quran to plan the defeat of the Muslim pirates. As long as she can tell the story her way, she will be able to rewrite history, but Jefferson had no respect for Islam - he wanted to know how they could free themselves from blackmail. She has actually demeaned her religion by using the book that helped their enemies to defeat them, because Jefferson was able to show the reasons they needed to stand against them.
  12. DaveW

    The beauty of creation

    Love his cute "smiling face"..... 😊
  13. DaveW

    Jews Versus Gentiles

    Jeremiah 13 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. How about we actually quote the verse and show that the BIBLE doesn't refer to the Cushite in this verse?
  14. DaveW

    Jews Versus Gentiles

    The Jews are the nation of people that sprang from Abraham because of God's promises to Abraham. By the time Abraham was around to be the father of a great nation there were many people all over the world. Even from Abraham there has sprung two separate and different peoples - the Jews and the Arabs (broadly speaking). Only those who are descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob are of the nation of Israel, and therefore Jews. The Jews then later made the distinction between their own nation and all other nations of the world, calling them as a general term "Gentiles". This has nothing in fact to do with Noah and that all people are descended from Him - you are correct that there is only one family of men, those who are descendants of Noah.
  15. DaveW

    Quick intro and testimony

  16. DaveW

    Belated "hello".

  17. DaveW


    Welcome - and that is fine - we have found over time that people who refuse to introduce themselves tend to have ulterior motives for being here - and that comes out after a while. I have been here for years and most people wouldn't know what actual church I attend. It is smart to be careful, but it shows a bit of openness and good nature to introduce yourself. I think everyone is happy enough for you to leave it at "southern US and IFB". Unfortunately we get some people who come on here just to attack or to try to teach false doctrines, and they are usually reticent to share anything that might allow people to check on them on line - we had one guy who has a whole website full of false teaching, but he wouldn't tell us anything so that we could find out what his agenda was. One of the members here did some investigative work and found him and it turns out that his whole point was to try to lead people away from IFB churches. Your intro and your willingness indicate that you are here for genuine reasons, which is what we always hope, but sometimes we get burned. By the way, I am nothing official on this site - I am just another member who happens to be on at this time. 😉
  18. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    To say clothing doesn't play a factor at all is, I respectfully say, just plain wrong. And to say that there is "no data" is also just plain wrong. You are just not looking at the right studies. Can I suggest that you in fact are the one who has not got the proper training on this subject? Pro 6:25-29 (25) Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids. (26) For by means of a whorish woman a man is brought to a piece of bread: and the adulteress will hunt for the precious life. (27) Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? (28) Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned? (29) So he that goeth in to his neighbour's wife; whosoever toucheth her shall not be innocent. Mat 5:27-28 (27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Jas 1:14-15 (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. This is how a man's heart works. But a man does not have to act upon it: Gal 5:16 (16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. So there is your information and there is your study material. As to your extra question - this is exactly what I mean - you want me to comment on other churches about something of which I have no knowledge, no responsibility, and no authority. This is not productive discussion, this is you searching for someone to make a statement which you can oppose. What does it matter what I think about it? I have in fact already answered that in about my second post. I said that most IB churches that I know would think the same, and any that don't should be investigated. But, no matter how you slice it, INDEPENDENT BAPTIST CHURCHES ARE INDEPENDENT AND NO ONE PERSON CAN SPEAK FOR ALL OF THEM.... And how about our newbie questioners go into the introduction area and give us a run down of your affiliations, the churches that you attend, and reason why you are here? Give us a reason to trust you, because right now it looks like you are here with a definite agenda.
  19. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    I am more than happy to answer any genuine questions, but the repeating of answered argument is not discussion. So go right ahead and I will do my best. Before I do though, I will suggest to you that the reason you can find great similarity in Independent Baptist Churches is not because of a lack of independence but it is due to a common "rulebook" - the Bible. My church tries to follow what the Bible says. As a result we have certain defining points. The Independent Baptist Church 45km north west of where I am likewise tries to follow what the Bible says. As does the IB church 65km west of here, and the IB church 70km north of here, and the one that is 35 km south of here. There are plenty of differences between us, but because we all try to follow the Bible, the essentials are all pretty close. But we are totally 100% independent from one another. I cannot tell them how to do things, and they cannot tell me how to do things. Basically, we have just come to very similar conclusion because we are using the same basic material - the Bible. That in fact should be a great comfort - that many different churches have come to the same conclusion EVEN THOUGH there is no collusion, no ruling body or influence, and no boss man telling us all what to do (aside from God, through His Word of course).
  20. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    I have to ask, why does it offend you so much that modesty is mentioned in this way? The actual quote where the term is used is: There is no implication that it is blaming the woman if she is not modest and is attacked. There is no implication that dressing with modesty will keep the woman from being attacked (note the use of "less likely"). There is no implication that being immodest is the cause of such attacks. But please let me ask you this - if a man is intent on making such an attack, is he more likely to attack a woman who is dressed immodestly or is he more likely to attack a woman who is dressed modestly? The line in particular that is quoted above is simply good advice, not some sort of judgemental attack. It seems to me that you are simply overreacting to what is a very reasonable statement. If I am wrong, then please point out to me where in his statement it forces the blame onto the woman? And also please keep in mind that I am absolutely 100% for criminal charges to be brought against any man who attacks any woman (or child). It is never justified for a man to attack a woman or child, just as it is never justified for a woman to attack a man or child, and it is never justified for a man to attack another man, or a woman to attack another woman, etc. Any such cases should be investigated by the proper authorities and if cause is found for charges and criminal proceeding to be commenced.
  21. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    I can only answer for the church that I am a member of, but...... Any accusations of sexual abuse (whether adult or especial involving children) will be passed on to the police to investigate. Further to this, anyone who does not have a police clearance CANNOT work in children's ministries, and anyone with a record of child molestation cannot be alone with any child at our church building. But once again, this applies ONLY to the church that I am a member of. This is a factor of independent Baptist churches being INDEPENDENT. YOU WILL NOT GET ANY ONE PERSON SPEAKING FOR ALL INDEPENDENT BAPTIST CHURCHES BECAUSE WE ARE IUNDEPENDENT. This is part of the reason that the original article of accusations is not relevant to me. As I said before, it would be like someone saying that you are responsible for the murders committed in red brick houses because you live in a red brick house. It is a ridiculous assertion. Likewise, to suggest that I can speak on behalf of (and am therefore responsible for) an independent Baptist church that I have never been to, never spoken to, have no authority over, don't even live in the same state - or for that matter country - is clearly ridiculous. I have now answered on at least four occasions both the OP and the subsequent accusation that Independent Baptist Churches are somehow not independent, and unless there is some sort of change in the questioning, there is just no point in me saying anything further. It is not a discussion if one side refuses to listen. And for the final time - any sexual abuse is abhorrent and criminal and should be dealt with by the proper authorities.
  22. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    I don't have a problem and have answered the question three times now. Any instance of sexual abuse in the church that I am currently a member of will have the proper authorities involved to investigate it as a criminal act. If I have to make it this plain - it will be reported to the police for a full legal investigation. However, as I have repeatedly said, it is not possible for any one person to answer the question in the way that the OP wants, because of the simple fact that we are independent Churches. The fact that the OP in particular will not accept that as a valid answer is what leads to us being suspicious. To allay those suspicions the OP needs to provide some sort of evidence that he does not have nefarious motives, because it look that way right way to me and to others here.
  23. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    And once again you have been answered clearly and absolutely by me. Any allegations should be investigated by the proper authorities as a criminal act. However, because we are INDEPENDENT CHURCHES - whether you like it or nor - no single person can speak for all Independent Baptist churches. You show a clear lack of understanding of what an independent Baptist church is, which makes your claim to be an independent Baptist nothing short of a lie. I am sorry to be so blunt, but you cannot claim to be a part of something that you so clearly have no knowledge of. And if you really were an independent Baptist you would understand that you arguments against the term are wrong. So once more, every independent Baptist church I personally know of would not hesitate to get the proper authorities involved with any allegation of sexual abuse. HOWEVER, as independent churches NO SINGLE PERSON OR BODY can speak for the group. Whatever you say, independent Baptist churches are not a denomination in any organised sense, and there is no spokesperson, ruling body, or organized council to speak in the fashion which you seek. Your manner, you arguments, and you mistaken understanding of what an independent Baptist church is all combine to indicate that you have nefarious motives. Speak to us plainly of your background, your affiliations, and your purpose, and we might be more keen on discussion. Many of us are more than happy to discuss with even those who are of opposing views, just so long as those people are honest and reasonable.
  24. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    And you both are ignoring the fact that no single person CAN answer your questions BECAUSE independent Baptist churches ARE INDEPENDENT. I absolutely directly answered the initial post when I said that the proper authorities should be involved - although I didn't state it, that is the policy in the church where I am. But because an independent Baptist church is independent I can not speak for any church but the one I am a member of. I can tell you that was the same for each of the three churches that I have been a member of. I have a question for the two of you. Why are you both singling out independent Baptist churches? There are many independent churches around - why exclude them? There are many church groups around - why exclude them? This singling out of only independent Baptist churches is what makes this seem fishy. We KNOW that this kind of thing is not exclusive to independent Baptist churches, so why focus on them? The Catholic church appears to have a systematic and organized way to hide and ignore the problem and not to even deal with it internally. The Anglican church has likewise had its issues with the problem. The Mormons have also has instances. The JW's have had instances. Schools have had many instances. The boy scouts have instances. And yet you both are focusing on independent Baptist churches only, even to the extent of attacking the other person who pointed out that others have the issue and to a far greater extent. My answer was absolutely, 100% applicable to the original question, you just don't want to accept it because it does not allow you to continue with your story.
  25. DaveW

    Fort Worth Star-Telegram Series

    So my answer didn't address the OP? Absolutely wrong. It just didn't address it in a way that allowed you to respond in the way you want. The point Independent Baptists are not an organized group. What happens in one church has no bearing on what another church is doing. Kinda like saying you must have an opinion on murders in red brick homes because you live in a red brick home. It has nothing to do with you except that live in a house built of the same stuff. And the manner of your question certainly does appear to be a fishing expedition. You may not have intended that, but that is the way it looks.