MacArthur

[john martin]

1 hour ago, Salyan said:

You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism).

Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1
For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11

 

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)

Study the Bible properly - you silly boy!

[No Nicolaitans]

52 minutes ago, Salyan said:

and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism.

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

Just now, john martin said:

Calm down dear, you clearly can't cope with someone daring to question your pathetic shallowness, silly girl.

Ban him now.

[heartstrings]

troll

[Alimantado]

22 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

That has been my observation all along too. Since becoming aware of Calvinism, the Doctrines of Grace, Reformed Theology, etc. and after studying it to some extent, my conclusion was that it appealed to one's intellect and was a source of pride; in which, it gives somewhat of a worldly credence to Christianity in the eyes of those (in the world) who look on Christians as unlearned and/or simpletons who can't think for themselves in this grand age of enlightenment that we live in. No offence intended, and I won't go as far as to say that all Calvinists are that way, but from what I've studied and seen, that is what the stalwarts of Calvinism lean towards.

I don't care how much studying I've done...or anyone else has done. The greatest and deepest truth that I've ever learned is this...

Jesus loves me, this I know. For the Bible tells me so.

I'll take that over Supraspectacularantisanctimonialbipartisantheographysuperstudieduptothegillsism any day. :)

I do agree with this and Salyan's original comment, although I'll also say that I think I have seen in 'reformed' writings and conversations with Calvinists a genuine desire to answer questions that naturally occur to all* of us, such as why it is that some people respond to the Gospel with saving faith and others don't.

I also wonder whether the whole of systematic theology could similarly be accused, including formulations of doctrines I believe in, such as the Trinity and substitutionary atonement. Some of them I feel quite proud about if I even manage to spell them right.

*A contextualised generalisation referring to the totality of the writer's own interactions with persons online and in real life and not in any way a statement or implication about a wider group of people nor a universal claim about humankind.

[Jim_Alaska]

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

Fortunately folks like this end up shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. They will eventually expose their agenda for what it is. This is the real "shallow thinking."

It's interesting that the new guy uses the same borderline sarcastic and patronizing grammar as the person before him.

[No Nicolaitans]

45 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

although I'll also say that I think I have seen in 'reformed' writings and conversations with Calvinists a genuine desire to answer questions that naturally occur to all* of us, such as why it is that some people respond to the Gospel with saving faith and others don't.

 

I believe it comes down to whether a person has been genuinely convicted of their sinful state and need of salvation...and whether they are willing to accept their need of salvation in regard to their sinful state and ultimate eternal destination. Some may be convicted, but they are unwilling to accept salvation. In my own personal experience, it took more than once to "convict" me enough to be saved. I didn't respond the first time that I knew I needed salvation. I knew that I needed to be saved, but I rejected it because of my own sinful desires. Some folks aren't willing to give up their selfishness in order to be saved. 

51 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

*A contextualised generalisation referring to the totality of the writer's own interactions with persons online and in real life and not in any way a statement or implication about a wider group of people nor a universal claim about humankind.

...and that's why I said that I wouldn't say that all Calvinists are like that. :) I learned long ago to stop generalizing people...but I still fail at times. :(

46 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

My thoughts exactly...although, to give the benefit of the doubt...he/she could be a "watcher" who hasn't registered before, and he/she decided to get in while the getting was good. LOL! However, it's just too coincidental.

In regard to MacArthur, I find it interesting...and according to his own words...unless he has recanted since I watched the video...he has no testimony of salvation. His "testimony" is that he doesn't recall that there was ever a time that he was saved...just that he's always believed. 

...and no, I won't take the time to find the video. I have no desire to. If anyone wants to see it, find it yourself and see for yourself...that's the only way you'll accept it in most cases. I don't mean to be unkind or unwilling to provide proof of my claims, but I just don't have any desire to. 

[Alimantado]

2 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

...and that's why I said that I wouldn't say that all Calvinists are like that. :) I learned long ago to stop generalizing people...but I still fail at times. :(

That smallprint was just a joke about another thread, NN. :)

[No Nicolaitans]

4 minutes ago, Alimantado said:

That smallprint was just a joke about another thread, NN. :)

Oh...

LOLOLOLOL!

[DaveW]

3 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

..........

I just said to my son last night that it looked like we were having our "annual influx of Calvinists".

It does seem as though they organise at a board to come here and "have some fun" every so often.

I find it funny how there is often one who takes "the smiling assassin" role, who thinks that they can say anything they like as long as they start and finish with nice words.

I found that with real life calvinists too......

The other thing that I find interesting is that when a good man falls to Calvinism they often leave other Bible doctrines and godly positions when try to find a Calvinist church.

For instance, I have known some who end up going to Presby churches even though it follows infant Baptism, and/or uses modern corrupt versions (you know, versions that remove salvation from the picture: see Acts 8:37 - or not if you have an MV).

I have always been amazed at what men will give up in their pursuit of Calvinsm.

 

[weary warrior]

I was a new, young preacher a little over 20 years ago, and was visiting a church in another state in the deep south while on missionary deputation to go overseas. There was a book shelf in the missions apartment in the church where we were staying. On the shelf was a copy of "Bondage of the Will" by Luther. I was a reader, and hungry to grow and learn, so I sat down to read it. I didn't make it through the first chapter. Even in my youth and inexperience (I had not studied the subject at all back then) the Holy Spirit impressed upon my spirit so strongly that what I was reading was wrong, I put it away feeling a heaviness that was almost akin to physical illness. I have since studied the doctrine of Calvinism over the years in a much more academic way, and all that did was explain to my mind what God had already settled in my soul. That it is heresy.

The exact same thing happened many years later as a pastor, when a member gave me a new book to clear for him titled "The Purpose Driven Church". Long before I could intellectually define what was wrong with that book, the Holy Spirit warned a poor, dumb-but-sincere preacher who honestly wanted to know and follow the truth, where ever it might lead.

I hate to run a sharp stick through anyone's sacred cow, but Spurgeon, Luther, Moody, Rice, Roloff, Hyles or whoever did not get a turbo version of the Holy Spirit that was not granted to the rest of us mere mortals. Nor did they receive a "private interpretation" of some better rendering of Scripture that gave them insight into truth not revealed to the rest of us. We're Baptists here, not Mormons. We believe in the priesthood of the believer, not the priesthood of "the Prince of Preachers". 

[HappyChristian]

6 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Let's see...... a new member who, in his first post fully aligns with the Calivinst posts before him. It smacks of "bringing in the reinforcements" from another board.

Fortunately folks like this end up shooting themselves in the foot all by themselves. They will eventually expose their agenda for what it is. This is the real "shallow thinking."

It's interesting that the new guy uses the same borderline sarcastic and patronizing grammar as the person before him.

I didn't wait. The guy is banned. 

[John Young]

11 hours ago, DaveW said:

I find it funny how there is often one who takes "the smiling assassin" role, who thinks that they can say anything they like as long as they start and finish with nice words.

I have been served a Complement Sandwich a few times by mid-level managers. Worst technique ever! For my educated Calvinist friends who use this approach, It just so happens I read this article in the "Harvard Business Review" the other day (i'm edumecated!) that explains the problems with it and a better way: The “Sandwich Approach” Undermines Your Feedback  https://hbr.org/2013/04/the-sandwich-approach-undermin

[Salyan]

Everyone that has been interacting with 'Bob' on this board should take a walk over to the introductions thread and read this:

 

[D-28 Player]

On 2/22/2017 at 5:32 PM, DaveW said:

Calvinism is not a "secondary issue" at all.

In Calvinism salvation is through the choice of God - in the Bible salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

[DaveW]

23 minutes ago, D-28 Player said:

I really hope you're not implying that Calvinists don't believe salvation is by grace through faith in Christ because, if you are, that would be bearing false witness. 

I really hope you have not joined this forum to call a member a liar - because that would be bearing false witness..... among other things.