MikeWatson1

Well, thank you for the reply Jerry. What I'm looking at is when the disciples were gathered at Jerusalem and the sound of a rushing wind from the Holy Spirit came in amongst them.. (Act 1:4) And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. (Act 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. So the disciples waited for this baptism with the Holy Ghost.. and then fulfilled here: (Act 2:1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. (Act 2:2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. (Act 2:3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. (Act 2:4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

In regards to Galatians 4:26 to 29 The Spirit regenerating at salvation.. is often called Holy Spirit baptism, but the baptism I have found is of entire groups.. aka the baptism of Holy Spirit and fire in Acts. Those baptised then we're a whole gathering. Not individual salvation there. So in Galatians it is salvation being said.. but is it a kind of baptism? Maybe figuratively.. but it doesn't match the other kind.

Well, with Acts 2:38.. the baptism here must surely be water baptism. The admonishment to 'be baptized'... if that were salvation.. it wouldn't be an action on the part of the sinner.. to do.. to be.. but the work of the Holy Spirit on their soul not by works. They would still 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ'.. but that isn't a work.. a to do.. a to be. Acts 2:41-- they were saved first and then baptised. Baptism and salvation seperate. That's not Holy Spirit baptism for the individual. The adding-- is to the church at Jerusalem. Added to as members. Aside from this, the receiving of the Holy Spirit.. is for the entire gathering. That isn't individually being saved.. but the whole group receiving the Holy Spirit as a church.

I went charging head first at my brother's friends pretending to a bull when I was only about 5 or 6. One of them was standing in front of the steel trailer in the back yard. I hit the trailer head first. I don't remember if I fell over or not, but walked away and then one of the guys said there was blood on my head. I looked at him and ignored him, didn't believe it. Then mum saw me and got all worried and I was confused as to what was going on.. then she showed me the mirror. I saw the blood.. put my hand on my head and bawled my eyes out. True story. I ended up with 6 stiches in the top of my head.. that was painful.

Ok thank you sir. I will take another look

Well to start we can look at Romans 6:3-4: So in other scripture we find being baptised for the remission of sins. This is water baptism, but the 'for' in the Greek is 'eis' which means 'in regards to' 'in reference to' or 'because of' So it's water baptism because of already having been given remission of sins at receiving eternal life. Then to Romans.. part of this is similar where 'into' is like regarding. 'Buried with Him in baptism' .. That's a picture of salvation at water baptism.

This is the other thing that happens when we say baptism is a pre-requisite to join the church. Since most equate the church with salvation... then they think we mean getting baptised to get saved. But, since we believe the church has nothing to do with eternal salvation.. we definitely don't believe baptism gets someone saved. If fact baptism to get someone saved is the mark of a cult or non-christian religion.

Yeah, that's what I see in scripture. But individual Holy Spirit baptism at salvation is the most popular belief. It's interesting. I can see why people have the Holy Spirit baptising an individual at salvation. If they believe in a universal church that you enter into at salvation.. then to align with 1 Co 12:13.. it MUST be at salvation and for the individual. It's a series of dominoes.. if the body is universal.. then this happens and this happens.. Anyway. It's a very rare thing to have the body of Christ as local only. I shouldn't get to hung up on people that don't agree with it. I just think few ever really study it out. The book Real Churches or a Fog by S.E Anderson convinced me.

Regarding 'there is one body' The context around this verse is unity in the body at Ephesus. For an example to be distributed to other churches. Also.. 'there is' is inserted for bibles that are honest about it. So it can read 'one body, one faith etc..' Which means it can apply to any body of believers. This is body as in assembly, congregation. So there can be many. One Jesus with many many congregations He calls His own. But back to Holy Spirit baptism. The times I see this I don't see it happening to anyone apart from a whole assembly. That's what happened in Acts.. and repeats. It's a group thing

Well.. you would know though of 'the cat' 'the bar' 'the school' That is not one universal cat.. or one universal bar.. or one universal school. It's singular standing for plural cats, bars and schools. This is normal grammar in English, which many seem to have forgotten when thinking about 'the church' So in scripture .. it is with 'the church'. It's always local and visible. Note though: it is not a building. The building is the material around the local assembly of saved baptised believers.. which is the church.

Every believer being called 'the church' is the most popular belief among christians today.. across all denominations. But it's just something that not that many have really taken apart and really studied. Matthew 16:18.. Jesus building His church.. it's got to be local here because it's local in Matthew 18:20. Jesus isn't going to contradict Himself. Why would He introduce the church as a universal every believer thing in 16:18-- and then later make not that.. but local? So-- 'the church' in Matt 16:18 is like 'the horse' 'the cat' 'the dog'. That's not one particular dog or cat or horse.. but one representing them all. So if I say-- the church is in decline. That means the local unit. Not every believer. In scripture-- the church 1) assembles (universal church can't do that) 2) has ordinances- Lord's Supper and tithing (universal church doesn't have these) 3) can teach and admonish and build up christians in the faith (universal church can do nothing) 4) is located in different areas (universal church has no location) Of course- -every believer will eventually be assembled as one body in heaven. But that is not a present reality. We are not one body yet. The church assembles. It is an assembly by definition. The universal church does not assemble. Lastly-- what I joined when I as converted- is the Family of God. This is not the body of Christ they aren't the same thing.

I'm pretty sure this has been covered before. But where in scripture does the Holy Spirit baptise anyone at salvation? I know regeneration is sort of figuratively the Holy Spirit baptizing.. but I don't actually see it in scripture. The key verse many like to use is 1 Co 12:13 But 1... later the body being defined is the one at Corinth. 2... 'spirit' here has been capitalized but can be small s. So.. being baptized in water.. in one spirit of unity...in reference to the church they want to join. Paul I think joined Antioch..so he would have been baptised in reference to that body. The Corinthians baptised in reference to their body at Corinth. So I don't see where the Holy Spirit baptises anyone.

The SBC does get alot of flak. I guess if it's the same sort of structure as the ABA (American Baptist Association) and MBA (Missionary Baptist Alliance).. then I should rethink what I think about the SBC. All I know, is the SBC has taken on the universal church idea of all redeemed being 'the church'.. I would disagree with that.. and call all redeemed part of the Family of God.. but not 'the church' All redeemed as one church.. is something in prospect. It isn't a current entity. It is incomplete. It's not gonna be a church till the New Jerusalem. A church always assembles. Doesn't matter how large it is. So every believer does not assemble.. therefore it is not a church.. not yet. Anyway.. I need to rethink about the SBC.

We had to contact the city council to use the city Square. It cost a little to use an area there. We also set up a table at an outdoor market area. That cost a bit more, but there was plenty of people around to talk to. So you don't commit some kind of offense, I'd check the local by laws about what to do to have a table in s public space. Here in Christchurch NZ, if it wasn't the city Square or a market.. we could set up a table at any park, and it cost nothing. Especially effective setting up by a skate park. We had a sign set up.. advertising the drink for a survey. The survey was general questions about life. The last question about whether they wanted to hear about Jesus. We also had chairs set up so people could sit and chat. I would be careful setting up close to vendors.. they would likely get anti at having possible customers getting free stuff. Also if they are anti Christian they may do some under hand tactics. But guess that's normal. The tract we had with the gospel presentation was a bit like the 4 spiritual laws from campus crusade.. except the emphasis wasn't on changing all areas of life.. and then God saves you.. but God saving you and as you are.. warts and all. The changed life happening as a response.. but not the means of salvation. Hope this is useful

Yea, we used to set up a table in a park or city Square, offering drinks without charge in return for going thru a survey leading to a gospel presentation. We saw a lot of people profess faith in Christ, which is great.. but very very few who would turn up at church. A lot of people likely just wanted a drink. Others maybe actually did believe, but weren't interested in church. I'm not a fan of decrying the sinners prayer. Romans 10:9-10 shows a sinners prayer. I know it isn't just.. 'repeat after me.. ' But it can be a prayer. And is instant when God saves someone.