MacArthur

[Salyan]

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison.

I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

[Bob Hutton]

1 hour ago, Salyan said:

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison.

I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

[wretched]

Men or Christ is always the real issue in these debates.

Remember the words God gave us through Paul: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" Don't ever be of a man for any accomplishment or publication. And yes, if a person follows their writings, purchases their writings and defends their writings - they are of that man.

TULIP cannot be found in the Word of God, it can only be learned through men's writings.

Regardless of which man teaches calvinism, our only goal in this life is to be like Christ. That is the Scriptural result of the new birth and is a huge part of the Gospel.

Now if our goal is to be like macarthur, spurgeon or anyone else than keep studying their writings by all means. But and this is the point I pray is understood: If our goal is to be like Christ; stick with the Bible only, focus on the NT Gospels first to grasp all things whatsoever He taught His disciples, dump the confusing merchandise of men, start over again and let's saturate ourselves only in the Word. 

Whatever our "goal" in this life is - will settle the matter of our salvation. If we have any other goals "great or small, religious or otherwise" we must revisit the matter of our souls.  

[OLD fashioned preacher]

7 hours ago, Salyan said:

No, actually, it's not (ridiculous, that is). Calvinism is a damnable heresy, and as such, it is a poison.

I'm going to ask that you move on from this point.

 

5 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

Whoa, wait right there, hold up, rein in, halt ------    Did you just say that a moderator can take a hike, you'll do as you jolly well please and move on when YOU are ready to?????

[heartstrings]

According to Spurgeon's own words, he tried to believe BOTH views, but evidently did not understand the scriptures completely. He figured that the two "truths" would be reconciled somehow in eternity. But God is not the author of confusion.  When I got saved, I didn't even know the name "Spurgeon"; didn't need to. . I believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. I trusted in His word. I believe the answers to these questions are in "the volume of the Book" and I have studied this for myself. I trust what the Bible says. Furthermore, being indwelled with the Spirit, I know the Voice of the Shepherd: I know not the voice of "Calvinism".  This verse just came to mind last night as I was driving home...

Proverbs 18:1Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom.

I don't know everything that verse means but, I believe it applies to growing in knowledge as a Christian AND I believe it applies to salvation. You have to "desire" it. If you want to be saved, God ALREADY "desires" you FIRST and He's willing and waiting to save you. But YOU have to desire Him and when you do, you will "separate yourself", in your heart, from sin and self and come to Jesus. God will not make you do it. I can only "speak what I know" to be true in my own life.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/adrianwarnock/2010/12/giving-spurgeon-the-last-word-on-arminianism-and-calvinism/

Edited February 23, 2017 by heartstrings

[Bob Hutton]

1 hour ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

 

Whoa, wait right there, hold up, reign in, halt ------    Did you just say that a moderator can take a hike, you'll do as you jolly well please and move on when YOU are ready to?????

Calm down, old chap.  I'm just showing how fallacious it is to make sweeping statements.  I don't care if people believe in Calvinism or not, it's a secondary issue and not worth calling people heretics over.

If it upsets shallow thinkers that much I'm happy to let it drop.

Kind regards

Bob

Oh, and by the way, I think you meant to say "rein in" not  "reign in", grammar and spelling are most important.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Bob Hutton

[Jim_Alaska]

2 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

No, I'm not moving on until we have established this question - did Spurgeon teach a damnable heresy?  If you answer "yes" you condemn one of the finest preachers that graced the western world.  If you answer "no" you concede my point that Calvinism IS a secondary issue.  Which is it to be? 

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

[Bob Hutton]

12 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

Bob,  taking into consideration that you are new to this board, I would like to take a moment to provide you with some helpful information that you should have read in the board guidelines before posting.

First of all there is a feature on these forums whereby members can determine the status of other members. An important feature is found in the left column, where you see a picture of the member.

The member you replied to is a moderator, as evidenced by the title under her name. Moderators are here to moderate, keep order and make sure that these boards operate according to the wishes of the owner of the boards.

We here at OB are not like other message boards where anything goes. The response you gave to Salyan, a moderator is totally unacceptable and will not be tolerated. Our board moderators are not only here most of the time, but they are active on the board, unlike many other message boards. They are mature Christians that moderate with a light hand even though they have a difficult job to do.

You sir, have openly defied two moderators with your reply that I quoted above. If a moderator tells you to "move it on", this is not a request or a suggestion that you can ignore at will.

Since you are new here I am not going to give you an official warning point against your status, but I do want this to serve as a warning that such behavior will not be tolerated. Salyan has instructed you to "move on" and if you do not comply, you will be moved on without further notice.

You obviously haven't read the last post in this thread, so I'll repeat it  "If it upsets shallow thinkers so much I'm happy to let it drop".  That should have been sufficient for you to know that i'm not pursuing the subject.

[DaveW]

Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

[Bob Hutton]

50 minutes ago, DaveW said:

Total lack of respect for the moderators.........

How about an apology to the moderators.

Salyan, OFP, and Jim are moderators, and the way you have spoken to each of them is disrespectful.

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

[DaveW]

39 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

How about you issuing apologies to Dr Macarthur for calling him "poison"?

I'm happy to let the matter drop as I can see that tempers are rising.

Kind regards

Bob

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

[Bob Hutton]

1 minute ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

[DaveW]

38 minutes ago, Bob Hutton said:

Dear bother in Christ,

I am happy to let this matter drop as I can see that some people are getting rather worked up.

All I will state is that, before you accuse me of disrespect, you should have a good, hard look at the comments you made at the outset.

On a lighter note,one hopes you will be in better temper later in the year when the Aussies regain the ashes.

Kind regards

Bob

 

42 minutes ago, DaveW said:

I issued a just warning against a false teacher - you disrespected the authority of this forum.

Which of these is more in line with Scripture?

 

[Salyan]

6 hours ago, Bob Hutton said:

You obviously haven't read the last post in this thread, so I'll repeat it  "If it upsets shallow thinkers so much I'm happy to let it drop".  That should have been sufficient for you to know that i'm not pursuing the subject.

You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism).

Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1
For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11

 

[DaveW]

2 minutes ago, Salyan said:

You know, my observation of Calvinism is that a) it isn't learned from the Bible - it comes from the teaching of men - many books and 'much learning' - and b) it presents itself as an intellectual doctrine and attracts those who are drawn to intellectualism. It often seems to become a point of pride - "see how much more study/learning I have done" or "see how much more I've thought about it than all you peons". Your statement above about 'shallow thinkers' really does reflect this observation, as it displays this as a point of pride in your life (you obviously think that you are a much deeper thinker than anyone who rejects MacArthur or Calvinism).

Oh, and I am going to answer a question posed above. You asked if I considered Spurgeon to preach a damnable heresy, and said that if I said yes, I'd condemn one of the greatest preachers of the Western world (thus attempting to negate my statement by the supposed position of the man). I haven't studied Spurgeon much, so I really can't speak to what he did or did not preach. However, if he did teach the 'doctrines of grace' (irresistible grace, total depravity, unconditional election, etc.), than yes, he did preach damnable heresy. And you know what? If he preached such heresy, then perhaps he was not one of the 'greatest preachers of the Western world'. Because the popularity of a man does not define the truth of his teaching.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Gal. 1:8
My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. James 2:1
For their is no respect of persons with God. Romans 2:11

 

Deserves a double "like" in my opinion. ;)