Churches That Are Against Having Drums In The Music...

[John81]

Brother John has read some of the same books but apparently has rejected what they had to say and the manner in which they pointed to scripture or he's like me and has an extremely poor memory because he's constantly repeating post #55 on thread after thread on this topic.

 

What you're asking me to do is dig those books out and start all over.  I have some here, I think, and most are in storage.  I figure the best bet for now is to dig out the list of titles and authors and provide them to you.  If I get caught up with work in the next few weeks I'll go to the storage and start reading again but my memory would require a reminder as I'm apt to forget.  It's weird coming up on seemingly new posts and discovering that I've already been there and commented!

The problem is that leaps and bounds are taken in those books and then there is an attempt to fit verses in. It doesn't matter the book or author, if they are making statements as if they are biblical fact when the Bible doesn't say what they contend, then at the very least they are misleading.

 

Now, if their ideas were put forth as their own view of what they think about music, that would be fine, but to try and say the Bible says what they say when it doesn't is no different than anyone else with a viewpoint or pet theory who attempts to force Scripture to back their view.

 

Likely as not, if God addresses this in heaven, we will discover some songs and music we thought were great actually are not in God's eyes and some that we thought were bad or wrong are actually loved by the Lord.

 

Were music the major issue many make it out to be the Lord would have addressed it directly. As is, individuals and churches have the liberty to study the matter themselves, seek the Lord in prayer and establish their musical stances.

 

I know sound and strong brothers in Christ who hold to very different views regarding music. They serve the same Lord we do, they have within them the same Holy Ghost. If the Lord wishes to convict any or all of them, or me or you, with regards to music, He can and will do so. Then it's up to us to obey the Lord in His leading regarding music and it's not always the same for everyone. Consider "Amazing Grace" and how the song received very tepid acceptance until it came to America, and then only in part of America at first did "Amazing Grace" find folks the song really moved and it became a popular hymn.

 

The Lord moves in His own ways with music as with other things. Just as a hundred people can hear the same sermon and a few are moved to action while the rest are not, the same is true with music, where a hundred people can hear/sing the same song yet only a few may be moved to deep worship and praise through the song while others are not.

 

We need to be careful to follow the convictions the Lord lays upon our hearts while not trying to force them upon others or attacking or condemning our brothers/sisters in Christ who have different convictions.

[Salyan]

Brother John has read some of the same books but apparently has rejected what they had to say and the manner in which they pointed to scripture or he's like me and has an extremely poor memory because he's constantly repeating post #55 on thread after thread on this topic.

 

What you're asking me to do is dig those books out and start all over.  I have some here, I think, and most are in storage.  I figure the best bet for now is to dig out the list of titles and authors and provide them to you.  If I get caught up with work in the next few weeks I'll go to the storage and start reading again but my memory would require a reminder as I'm apt to forget.  It's weird coming up on seemingly new posts and discovering that I've already been there and commented!

 

Thank you, but I don't need those book titles. I probably have the same ones. You stated that the order of music is set out in the Bible, and I want to know where in the Bible it says it is - not in some man's book.  Swath, if it's in the Scriptures, you should be able to give me chapter and verse, or at least principle, without having to dig through a whole box of books!

 

I'm challenging this because it is so easy to say that some specific standard is in the Bible, when really only the principle is there to draw from. Not that principles are unimportant, but if we say something is specifically there, it had better be there. Our young people will find any such inconsistencies (and, frankly, lies) and, all to often, use them as an excuse to discard the standard altogether. If something is based on principle, let's teach them the principles! But let's not just say 'it's in the Bible' without being able to back that up. If it's there, we should be able to share it - always and whenever we are asked to give an answer.

[HappyChristian]

Like this  (start at about 1 minute, and watch a bit for some great drumming.

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[Covenanter]

Does Psalm 150 teach the use of instruments in TEMPLE worship?

 

Surely the worship in the temple was sacrifices & incense, & in no way resembled a church service. Instruments were used in processions & in house worship on the sabbath.

 

Psalm 92:1 It is a good thing to give thanks unto the Lord, and to sing praises unto thy name, O Most High:

² To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night,

³ Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.

 

Tho' the dedication must have been a noisy affair, but is that a pattern for regular worship?

2 CHr. 5:¹² Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:)

¹³ It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the Lord; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the Lord, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord;

¹⁴ So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

I'm not sure we would recognise it as music. Was that IN the temple - was there that much room inside for hundreds of musicians & singers? They could have been outside the east end, especially as the temple itself was filled with the cloud of glory.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

You can not tell the pastor son, that he cannot play in the group right.

Bet me I can't!

[The Glory Land]

Bet me I can't!

 

 

You don't want to get the pastor mad do you? That right you're the pastor....

[Montanabeliever]

Like this  (start at about 1 minute, and watch a bit for some great drumming.

:

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[Musician4God1611]

Bet me I can't!

 

You never have before!  

[HappyChristian]

Does anyone have a video example of drums being used in a good way?  I'd like to see what the difference between good drumming and bad drumming is, just out of curiosity.  There have been several statements about instruments being used in a good vs bad way yet no examples have been given of either.  For further clarification on this subject, it would be helpful to see examples of both assertions being demonstrated. 

I'm not for or against instruments being used in church, I don't care either way.  I just would like to see specific examples of both positions. 

While this is not a church setting (and it's not a church song...but Beethoven wrote some real winners!), I think it shows what a good orchestra does with drums.  Note that the drums never overwhelm.  (It's pretty long, but the first two or three minutes give you the idea)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnkrvtuiMQ

 

Sorry, I looked for audio of our church with the orchestra playing, but can't find any online.

 

edited to add: Here's a 15 minute version of Ode to Joy, which is often sung in churches (most might recognize it as Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee). It's the 4th movement of Beethoven's 9th.  While churches that play the song would probably not play the entire version, I posted this so you could hear the drums...

[The Glory Land]

While this is not a church setting (and it's not a church song...but Beethoven wrote some real winners!), I think it shows what a good orchestra does with drums. Note that the drums never overwhelm. (It's pretty long, but the first two or three minutes give you the idea)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnkrvtuiMQ

Sorry, I looked for audio of our church with the orchestra playing, but can't find any online.

watch and learn Chinese at the same time. :)

[Montanabeliever]

While this is not a church setting (and it's not a church song...but Beethoven wrote some real winners!), I think it shows what a good orchestra does with drums.  Note that the drums never overwhelm.  (It's pretty long, but the first two or three minutes give you the idea)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPnkrvtuiMQ

 

Sorry, I looked for audio of our church with the orchestra playing, but can't find any online.

Okay, that sounds good.  I haven't run across any classical music I do not like.  It's all good. 

I guess what I'd really like to see is drums used in a spiritual way that is appropriate.  In that regard, classical music does not apply.  Are there examples out there of Christian music where the drums are okay? 

[HappyChristian]

Okay, that sounds good.  I haven't run across any classical music I do not like.  It's all good. 

I guess what I'd really like to see is drums used in a spiritual way that is appropriate.  In that regard, classical music does not apply.  Are there examples out there of Christian music where the drums are okay? 

Check what I added to my previous post.  It's Ode to Joy, the 4th movement.  While it would not be played like this in churches, it most certainly would use drums if a church orchestra had it.

 

I do wish I could find songs from our church to post because we do play in an appropriate way.  No, classical doesn't apply to the spiritual, but it does give the picture of proper usage of the drum.

[Ukulelemike]

As to the video - that is obviously not a church (and I know you weren't implying it was).   It is horribly sad to see people misled in this way - but it isn't the fault of the drums...yes, they use drums wrongly, but these same types of people use stringed instruments wrongly, too.  It is heartbreaking that this type of stuff is done with the Lord's name applied.

Actually, they would argue that they are, as would everyone in attendance. However, I agree, they are not, or if they are, if there are any saved there, I suspect it is of the type that Jesus is standing outside of, knocking to enter.

[swathdiver]

You stated that the order of music is set out in the Bible, and I want to know where in the Bible it says it is - not in some man's book.  

 

Swath, if it's in the Scriptures, you should be able to give me chapter and verse, or at least principle, without having to dig through a whole box of books!

 

I'm challenging this because... But let's not just say 'it's in the Bible' without being able to back that up. 

 

 

Point 1 - I did that already in many previous discussions.

 

Point 2 - If my mind was only as good as yours I'd be able to do it.

 

Point 3 - I did that already in many previous discussions.  Since you don't want the names of the books I feel freed from the trip to the warehouse now.  The names were all posted 2 or 3 times here anyways too.

[Salyan]

Swath, I have never seen you post them. All I ever see is you saying you've posted them. Until you post the references asked for, I have to believe that they don't exist. Cause I've never found them myself. If you can't prove what you say is true, it's not worth anything. Sorry.