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Musician4God1611

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Musician4God1611 last won the day on February 22

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About Musician4God1611

  • Birthday 02/26/1989

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  1. Yes, this song has always bothered me. I haven't been in a lot of churches where they sing it, but when it is sung I always think, "Really? Are you guys paying attention to what you're singing."
  2. The “doctrine” of kenosis was said to be first taught by Gottfried Thomasius, who was born in 1804. Charles Wesley died in 1788. I’m pretty sure that isn’t what he was perpetuating. Additionally, just because you think a term sounds ridiculous, doesn’t nullify it. On top of that, I repeat that it doesn’t merely say that Christ emptied himself, but rather that he emptied himself of all but love. If God is love, then he couldn’t possibly empty himself of his deity and retain pure love. This is not even mentioning the implication that those who disagree with you about this don’t stick with the KJV, which is an ungrounded basis. I believe at this point it would be safe to assume we won’t be reaching an agreement on this so we’d best just agree to disagree and go on.
  3. I still don't get where you are coming from. If the Bible says that God is love, then isn't emptying himself of all but love still remaining God since God is love. It is in essence saying emptied himself of all but God. You can't arbitrarily pronounce something to be a heresy without establishing the premises whereby you came to such a conclusion. I can promise you that Charles Wesley did not negate the deity of Christ.
  4. I'm a bit confused about number 3. Why do you say Christ emptying himself is heretical? Doesn't Philippians say that he humbled himself and became obedient? Isn't that, in essence, emptying himself? Also, the song doesn't say that he merely emptied himself, but rather that he emptied himself of all but love. Now I know some people say that this isn't true, but you have to consider this from a poetical standpoint. Obviously it isn't saying that there was no other attribute but love left, but rather that he removed from him any potential for an attribute that is opposing of love. Some would argue that because he is God that he didn't have to empty himself of anything, because it wasn't already there, but if that logic were to stand then we would have to also say that he couldn't humble himself because he was already meek. When the author says emptied himself of all but love, he isn't saying that he had unloving things deep within that he had to remove, but rather that he humbled himself as the Bible says.
  5. Can you substantiate your claims? It isn't going to be much of a discussion if everybody gives a list a songs and says they contain bad theology. It would be like saying, "These are bad. Why? Because I said so." Why do you say they contain bad theology?
  6. I agree, PastorMatt. I had read this post in the past and my thoughts were, well I do know that he lives in my heart. I don't even think it's that shallow. I think a lot of Christians discredit this side of the Christian life because it makes them uncomfortable to feel like they are approaching anywhere near to what the Charismatics believe. The things of God are not perceived by logic, therefore it's not really enough to say, "it's this way because I read it". It's all well and good to say, "I know he lives because the Bible tells me so" but that will get you nowhere with someone who doesn't believe the Bible. Do I know he lives because the Bible says so? Yes. Do I know that he lives because he's in my heart and I talked with him this morning? Yes. His Spirit bears witness with our Spirit that we are the son's of God. I had hoped that Bouncing Bill would repost the songs he had listed before with a reason for why he feels they contain bad theology. Bouncing Bill, would you do that?
  7. Actually, sensual is restricted to the flesh. The definition of sensual is, "pertaining to the senses, as distinct from the mind or soul" (Webster's 1828). If it is distinct from the mind or soul, it's of the flesh. I would identify that your trouble in perceiving this subject is summed up in the phrase you keep repeating, "to me". When it comes to truth, opinions do not matter. "To me" doesn't come into play.
  8. Well, let's start with what I would surely hope would be the most obvious: The Battle Hymn of the Republic. This song really has nothing to do with Christianity at all, and if you try to make it fit, it puts us in the battle of Armageddon, sort of, I think. It's very unclear. Verse 3 says this: I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnish'd rows of steel As ye deal with my condemners so with you my grace shall deal Let the hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel His truth is marching on Basically if you want the grace of God, kill the condemners.
  9. I do not sing hymns that contain bad theology. That being said, many people disagree about what theology is and isn't sound. I look forward to seeing a separate thread about this, because I'm curious to know what about some of these you say is bad theology. It's really baffling.
  10. Ok, where to begin.... This absolutely nothing like meat offered to idols. Music is one of the most important things in the Christian life. Consider Ephesians 5:18-21 where he says, "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." When we look at it without the verse separations we see that this is all one sentence, and as such it is one thought. From this we can learn that being filled with the Spirit is directly linked with things like submission, thankfulness, and Godly music. It is an undeniable truth that music is an integral part of the Spirit-filled life, and the last time I checked, the things of God are not dependent on our opinion about them. When it comes to music, our opinion about it does not matter. When we talk about the structure of music, it is an undeniable fact that the way music is structured as an effect on our body and our mind. Anyone who has spent any amount of time honestly looking at it will know that the mind effects the body and spirit, the spirit effects the body and mind, and the body effects the spirit and mind. If you are physically sick, you are at a higher risk of depression, and the depressed person will nearly always be unsuccessful in walking with God. That is just one example of how the three are intertwined. When we look at music, the first effect we see is the beat. That's because it's the most obvious. This effects are body. Even lost, secular, rock 'n roll artist knew (and know) the the beat drives the body. What most Christians teaching about music don't tell you, is that the beat is also the easiest part of the music to correct. This is why you have so many churches taking CCM music and "fixing" it. If the only issue with CCM was the beat, I would agree with them. The more subtle structure of music is the melody. CCM tends you use a repetitive, almost monotonous form of melody. What we see from this (there was an excellent study on this done called "Music and the mind" but I don't remember the man's name) is that it will do one of two things depending on the person. For some people it will irritate them and make them want to shut it up. For other's, it will set them in a semi hypnotic state. This is how CCM, and other forms of music, introduce false doctrine into their songs without people rejecting it. There can also be harmonies which are wrong. This is a working premise of blues, jazz, rag, and such like that has worked itself into "Gospel" music. There are two forms of harmony, consonance and dissonance. Consonance resolves itself and is "pleasant", dissonance does not resolve itself and is "unpleasant" on it's own. There is a lot of music the works off of unresolved dissonance, or dissonance that "resolves" into something that doesn't really resolve it. This adversely effects the emotions. And lastly there is lyrics. If any song is unscriptural, it should not be sung. I don't care if it's a "precious old hymn" or a brand new single. Do many young people think that we are being Pharisees with our music? Probably, but that's because many Christians, and a lot of preachers do. One of the most prevalent responses I get when talking to preachers about music is "I don't really know anything about music". Well, if you don't know anything about music, learn. We wouldn't take that attitude with submission, we would learn about submission. We wouldn't take that attitude about thankfulness, we would learn about thankfulness. We shouldn't take that attitude about music, it's necessary in living a Spirit-filled life. In reference to Country and Rock music... I love apples, but I'm not digging through the dump to find one.
  11. When you preach what is your style of presentation? I almost always preach expository, or textual (mostly expository). When I teach, it is more topical. I never do narrative sermons, it's just not me. Are you monotone? I'm not monotone by any means. I'm a very expressive person, and my preaching follows. I talk with my hands and emphasize a lot. Are you loud in emphasizing your points? Occasionally. I don't ever intend on being loud. I try to always pray beforehand that the Lord will help me deliver the message exactly the way I need to deliver it. I pray if I need to be loud, that it will be portrayed as passion, and not contention. I pray if I need to be quite, that it will be meditative, and not boring. Do you preach from notes, or off the top of your head "as the spirit leads" you? I almost always use notes, though I can preach without them. My notes, however, are just the basic points, subpoints, and Scriptures. How long is your typical sermon? I generally preach until I'm done. But now, starting a new church (we had our first service a month ago), I have been making it a point of only preaching 30 to 35 minutes. My longest message that I'm aware of was 1 hour and 58 minutes. So basically I'm all over the place on time.
  12. I actually knew of (did not know her personally) a woman that did not believe she was one of the elect. She still felt like it was her duty to witness to try to help the elect find their way to the "truth".
  13. Never said the person was right, I just said they can still go to heaven. Baptists will not be the only ones in heaven. And contrary to what some may believe, All the Christians in the world that have the right doctrine are not necessarily Baptist. Look, I'm an Independent Baptist. I know why I'm an Independent Baptist, and I will most likely be an Independent Baptist until the day I die. But I'm Baptist Because I'm a Bible believer, I'm not a Bible Believer because I'm a Baptist. Anyway, I digress. I wouldn't have pursued this dialog except for the fact that is the personification of exactly what I said. Independent Baptist seem to think they'll be the only ones in Heaven.
  14. Not speaking of a group, but rather of an individual.
  15. Speaking of Independent Baptist, The autonomy of the the church. Furthermore, you can believe in Baptism through some other form than emersion without believing it to be necessary for salvation.
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