Covenanter

No Bible college. I did a science degree. Option - none.

@BroMatt please note - happens to me & others also

I'm answering other contributors, NOT yours.

As we study Revelation it is helpful to look up the cross-references in the OT. There are similarities & differences - the four horsemen have 2 references in Zechariah, the sealing of the 144,000 has a reference in Ezekiel, hiding in the rocks & mountains in Isaiah & Luke, the plague of locusts in Joel.

I don't expect a debate, but an apology. Your post accused those brethren on the forum who disagree with your interpretation of being dogs & liars. I must therefore treat you as a heathen publican - a sinner who needs the Gospel of repentance & faith in Jesus.

Alan - I send PMs to avoid disrupting the thread. My “very lengthy .... very lengthy” PM was 860 words after quoting 580 words of your post on page 9 which had a total of 2900 words. Out of courtesy, I am sending to you, &separately to Invicta & Geneva before I consider going public. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?do=findComment&comment=407432 I & others were greatly offended by your attitude to the effect that those of us who hold different views to yours are to be viewed as “dogs” & “liars.” Your post publicly responding to my PM shows serious misunderstanding of what I wrote. --------------------- As you have responded publicly, I consider it right to post what you responded to - From your "Revelation" thread: Dogs - False Teachers in the Church “Dogs.” In scripture, dogs and pigs are likened to lost people and to false teachers (heretics), who turned from the “holy commandment delivered unto them.” ........ The teaching of heretical doctrines, by false teahers, in our independent, fundamental, Bible believing, Baptist churches, is pernicious. The following false doctrines are used by false teachers to destroy churches: Calvinism is destroying soul-winning efforts. Calvinism, “TULIP,” is a pernicious doctrine. Preterist Theology, Covenant Theology, Replacement Theology, a-millennialism, and a belief in a post-tribulation rapture, are destroying the hope of the soon return of Christ. And, is destroying the belief in the literal one thousand year of Christ and casting doubt on the veracity of the Book of Revelation. All of the above, ‘Theologies,’ are pernicious theologies. In addition to the destroying the belief in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, the Preterist, Covenant Theology, and Replacement Theology teachers are also destroying the belief in the literal fulfillment Covenants of God, the Promises of God, and the prophetic prophesies of the Old Testament prophets. They are, ‘pernicious’ theological teachers. The new corrupt versions of the scriptures are destroying the very foundation of our faith and has cast doubt in the preservation of the word of God. Every new version, starting with the Revised Version of 1881 are, ‘pernicious’ versions. ....... “and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” Physical The world is full of liars. And, God will punish every one of them. “A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5 “A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.” Proverbs 19:9 “and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” Spiritual All false doctrines, from all of the false teachers, from all of the false religions, are lies. A half-truth is designed to deceive. A half-truth, a partial truth, a twisting of the truth, a verse taken out of context, and other forms of deceit are lies. Calvinism “TULIP” are lies, Covenant and Replacement Theology are partial truths and bits of scripture designed to deceive. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are liars. Hell is a real place and so is heaven. Infant baptism is a lie, starting from Revised Version of 1881 to the present day, all of the new versions of the scriptures contain lies of some sort, half-truths, and partial truths and the twisting of the truth. The doctrine of a-millennialism is a lie. The notion that the book of Revelation is symbolic, figurative, or allegorical, are all lies. The Jehovah Witness’s belief that Jesus came in 1914 is a lie. Need I go on? “A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5 “A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.” Proverbs 19:9 Conclusion I will end this with the admonition that Paul the Apostle made to the saints in Ephesus. “And put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another.” Ephesians 4:24 and 25 If any of the brethren are caught up in the religious lies of any of the false doctrines listed above I admonish you to cease from believing these doctrinal lies and learn the truth. ---------------------------------------- You are becoming an expert in false - railing - accusations against anyone who does not accept your teaching. That quote is the conclusion of a very offensive post, pretending to be an exposition of Scripture, while accusing me & others, not "merely" of teaching false doctrine - lies - but of being "dogs" - totally evil, & numbered with the ungodly: For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I'll try to answer courteously, recognising that you are a Christian brother in need of guidance. What is the basis of the "truth" that you teach? You think it to be the KJV Scriptures, but do you know what the translators believed & taught? All believed infant baptism, a last day second coming; covenant theology; & predestination. All subscribed to the 39 articles; which teach: "IV Christ did truly rise again from death, and took again his body, with flesh, bones, and all things appertaining to the perfection of Man's nature; wherewith he ascended into Heaven, and there sitteth, until he return to judge all Men at the last day." "VII The Old Testament is not contrary to the New: for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to Mankind by Christ, who is the only Mediator between God and Man, being both God and Man. Wherefore there are not to be heard, which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises. Although the Law given from God by Moses, as touching Ceremonies and Rites, do not bind Christian men, nor the Civil precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any commonwealth; yet, notwithstanding, no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral. "XVII Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only-begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity." "XXVII Baptism is not only a sign of profession, and mark of difference, whereby Christian men are discerned from others that be not christened, but is also a sign of Regeneration or new Birth, whereby, as by an instrument, they that receive Baptism rightly are grafted into the Church; the promises of the forgiveness of sin, and of our adoption to be the sons of God by the Holy Ghost, are visibly signed and sealed; Faith is confirmed, and Grace increased by virtue of prayer unto God. The Baptism of young Children is in any wise to be retained in the Church, as most agreeable with the institution of Christ." Were these godly men "dogs" in your opinion, or did they simply not understand what they were translating? I think you will find also that earlier translators & reformers - Wycliffe, Tyndale & others, & translators of the Geneva Bible, believed substantially what was systematized in the 39 articles. I think you will also find, if you research church history & doctrine, that the dispensationalist "end times" doctrines you teach are not held by Bible believing Gospel preachers (baptist or paedobaptist, & all KJV) before they were popularised by the widespread use of the Scofield Bible. The comments on Rev. 20 in Matthew Henry's Commentary (around 1700) are of interest. You will, of course, find various teachings about the millennium down the ages. The Jewish Encyclopaedia shows that the concept is Jewish apocryphal & pre-Christian, & refers to early Christian teaching. I would be VERY surprised if you find anything resembling what you claim is taught in "our independent, fundamental, Bible believing, Baptist churches" in anything earlier than the 19th century, & by sound Bible believing teachers, Baptist or other. I think in fact you would find that Scofield is your authoritative source, as, I understand, his early 20th century "Bible" was free issue as a "Fundamentalist" commentary in the Bible Colleges at a time when false doctrine, evolution & modernism were taking hold in the denominations. It was issued to combat modernism. While it may not now be referred to as the standard, & you may not use it, it was e.g. the standard in the university Christian Union in my days - the 50s. Thus 3 generations of Bible teachers have been subjected to its influence, & its teaching is accepted as the "truth." I'll stop there. I'd like to draw in Geneva & Invicta, who you have also denounced as "dogs." In Jesus service, Ian

Alan wrote: "Thank you for letting everyone know that I invited you in a private message: knowing even though we may disagree, as other brethren disagree, it is best if to have a polite discussion and not a heated debate, nor a name-calling series of posts." I've responded to you in a PM - which I shared in a separate conversation with Invicta & Geneva. It's time to start a separate thread where we can have an open discussion & explore contrary views. I don't mind other people knowing I have private conversations.

I agree with Russ (GM) in that you CLAIM to hold a Scriptural position & are extremely offensive in dismissing those who teach other Biblical positions (such as Covenant Theology, & Amillennialism) as "dogs." You send courteous PMs to us, & then public denounce us. And NO! You have not "explained the scriptural position, and correct belief,of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ" but given your opinion, which is certainly open to challenge by the "Bereans" on the forum.

I've PM'd @BroMatt with problems but the system tells me he hasn't read them. Three since May 14.

​That comes from one I have reported many times for personal attacks & lack of respect. ----------------- Regarding quoting - you will see from the "Everlasting Covenant" thread that it failed disastrously for me in a very long post. (Long because I was quoting Bro. Scott.) I had to go back & find my post, copy it into my word processor & then copy into my reply. I have complained regularly to @BroMatt but had no replies.

I had about 10 minutes available. It was well received. They know the persecution of their home countries, & some of non-Christian families. Afterwards, one of the ladies introduced herself as the mother of the new husband of a young lady in our fellowship - still away on honeymoon. Sadly that was an RC/baptist wedding, but happily his mother was now coming for Bible teaching.

​I was invited to speak at a ladies' Bible study - about a dozen mainly Indian ladies. Revelation 1 – June 12, 2015 When we hear the news, or read reports from Christians, we read about persecution. Christians driven from their homes, suffering prison & death by mobs or even by the state. I want to look at this prophecy as a special word for its readers – for us. Jesus promises special blessings for those who read, hear & keep what is written. That applies to Christians in every generation & every country. You have probably heard preachers on TV & radio telling you about future end times, rapture, great tribulation, antichrist, etc. You may have seen the “Left Behind” films. If that's true, there's no blessing in reading Revelation – it's all written for another time. I don't accept that teaching. It is religious fiction. Lets read what the Word of God says. The opening verses tell us that the prophecy concerns the situation in the world at the time of writing - must shortly come to pass - the time is at hand. Listen again: 1. The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. I understand that John had his visions & wrote the Revelation during the time of the Roman Emperor Nero – about 66 AD. That was 4 years before Jerusalem & the temple were destroyed by the Roman armies as prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24. It was a time of great persecution of Christians both by the Romans & by the Jewish leaders. In v. 9 John writes of himself as: your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ. This isn't future “end times.” It was at the time of writing. The book & the letters are addressed to seven churches, but the blessings & the warnings are for all the readers. Seven times in chapters 2 & 3 we read: “ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” What are the promised blessings for us, as we read these words? V. 4-6 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. John lists the blessings - grace, peace, love, washing from sins – all the promises of full salvation through Jesus' blood. Do we know that salvation? It is freely given when we turn from our sins & come to Jesus seeking forgiveness. We then have the grace of God that welcomes us as children of God. We have peace with a holy God. It is a peace that rests on him, that trouble & suffering in this life cannot take away. So many people live as enemies of God and reject the forgiveness he offers freely through Jesus' blood. They continue living as sinners. They do not know his love. We feel his love, the love of God who so loved the world that he gave his Son for our salvation. We are washed from our sins, so that God sees us as righteous. Because of Jesus, we are even now fit to enter heaven. Our life becomes a walk with God, as a Saviour & Friend. We do not live in fear, as if every sin puts us in danger. We are forgiven & cleansed from our sins. Our baptism as believers in Jesus is a sign of that perfect cleansing. Further we have the wonderful status as kings and priests unto Jesus' God and Father. That is the perfect fulfilment of the promises to Israel. Exodus 19:6. We are on the winning side in all the troubles we face, even though we suffer & die. Jesus, our great high priest, is our sacrifice for all our sins. Our priestly duty is to offer our service & our lives to him. The book of Revelation has many wonderful visions of Jesus & his Father in heavenly glory. We read the first one in the first chapter. The book of Revelation is also full of all sorts of troubles, as believers face the opposition of the forces of spiritual wickedness. Persecution by the Jews was followed by persecution by the Roman Empire. When Christianity became the official religion of the Empire & supposedly everyone became “Christian,” true Gospel Christians suffered at the hands of the Roman Catholic Church & the Greek Orthodox Church. Then the Muslims persecuted all those with Christian beliefs - & they still do. Through all this persecution believers have the promise of Jesus in Rev. 2:10b be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. We have the promise that we will be with Jesus in glory. John has a vision of heavenly praise in Rev. 5: 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. At the end of time, Jesus will come again & we will be with him in a wonderful New Heaven & New Earth. Rev. 21. Amen.

I did start a Bible study starting from the beginning of Revelation, but it was deleted by a moderator without warning.

My hope and prayer is that some will change. That they will see that all Scripture centres on God's purposes for the blessing of all families of the earth in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. God's people, God's family, are all redeemed believers from all nations. Eph. 3:1-21

​See the deletion topic - no specific reason is given. @BroMatt closed the thread on March 30 with the words "Locking this thread until I can review everything tomorrow morning."