Are Christians That Drink Wine Not Saved?

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Tests show that after drinking three bottles of beer, there is an average of 13% net memory loss.  After taking only small quantities of alcohol, trained typists were tested and their errors increased 40%.  Only one ounce of alcohol increases the time required to make a decision by nearly 10 percent; hinders muscular reaction by 17 percent; increases errors due to lack of attention by 35 percent. -- Paul Harvey

[no name joe]

We can agree to disagree.  :-)

[John81]

Rather amazing that something as seemingly simple as this topic is still going on after five pages. I know there is debate out there in some of the liberal mainline churches (of which KOB partakes) but typically among IFBs (as well as other conservative churches) this issue has long ago been settled upon the Word of God.

 

In any event, many good posts in this thread with some good information for those who need it and who are willing to accept biblical truth.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Every drunkard started with the belief that "Just one drink won't hurt."

One drink... that's all it takes for many to become drunkards, wife beaters, child killers, thieves, brawlers, etc..

It is amazing how one can believe that God gave such a vile drink to man to enjoy as a recreational beverage.

The truth is, God did not give that drink to man... man invented that drink to appease his own fleshly lusts and desires.

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

One who teaches that God gave man alcohol is giving license to sin... whether he wants to believe it or not.  Every potential drunkard that reads, or listens to, that persons words who picks up the bottle thinking "Brother So-and-So said it was OK" is only fooling himself by thinking so.  Just one drink... that is all it takes to put one on the road to destruction.

And the false prophet that convinced you of taking that drink is just ahead of you on that same broad road.

Micah 2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.

[Invicta]

Vinegar?

[Steve Schwenke]

Rather amazing that something as seemingly simple as this topic is still going on after five pages. I know there is debate out there in some of the liberal mainline churches (of which KOB partakes) but typically among IFBs (as well as other conservative churches) this issue has long ago been settled upon the Word of God.

 

In any event, many good posts in this thread with some good information for those who need it and who are willing to accept biblical truth.

I am not so sure of that anymore, John.  I was in attendance at an IFB church in Topeka, KS, where the Adult Sunday School teacher was teaching the very same thing that kindofblue is, with the pastor seated on the front row.  I left, and never went back.  I believe this type of teaching is creeping into our churches.  We are in the days of apostacy, that is for sure!

[John81]

I am not so sure of that anymore, John.  I was in attendance at an IFB church in Topeka, KS, where the Adult Sunday School teacher was teaching the very same thing that kindofblue is, with the pastor seated on the front row.  I left, and never went back.  I believe this type of teaching is creeping into our churches.  We are in the days of apostacy, that is for sure!

Unfortunately I must agree. There are several IFB churches in this area which have gone astray. I'm not sure if any teach drinking booze is okay, but considering some of their other liberal, unbiblical stances, it wouldn't surprise me if one or more does.

 

Perhaps it would be more accurate if I said, historically IFBs have stood upon the Word of God regarding this issue.

[Steve Schwenke]

Yes that would be more accurate.

I am reading (among other things) the writings of John Leland - Baptist preacher from the Revolutionary War days.  He was firmly against drinking, dancing, secular music, etc.  It is nice reading our Baptist history and finding out that I am preaching what they preached way back them.....

[LindaR]

We can agree to disagree.  :-)

In other words, "I will believe what I want to believe, and you believe what you want to believe."  You are choosing to remain where you are "comfortable" in order to justify your drinking of beverage alcohol and your belief that "drinking beverage alcohol in moderation is fine".   Why do you want to avoid the truth that the Bible teaches total abstinence and nowhere does the Bible teach or advocate "drinking beverage alcohol in moderation".

[JerryNumbers]

Micah 2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink; he shall even be the prophet of this people.

 

Just my observation in my nearly 68 years of life.

 

Seems there's many that lets those they associate with in business & society have a large influence over their interpretation of the Bible, especially when it comes to drinking.

 

The society people in the small town down the road from my house loves to serve drinks at their society get togethers, & many of those who attend are those who are members of the churches in that small town. And of course they would not dare offend those who are unchurched by refusing to drink the drinks that they offer them nor to serve drinks when they're hosting an event.

 

I also know that the unchurched in that society talks about the church people drinking drinks as being hypocrites for some of them have expressed this to me about them never turning down a drink at their functions while in fact always asking for more, yet on Sunday morning they're setting on the church pews saying amen.

 

Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

 

Those church people who drink those drinks with their society friends & business associates just don't understand how much of a stumbling block they are for their unchurched friends & how they talk about them behind their backs. Yes they become a stumblingblock to their friends & business associates yet they would never admit it for they do not want to give up drinking even for our Lord & the sake of the lost.

[Salyan]

KOB, I disagree with your conclusions, but gotta say that I like the principles you laid out earlier. Those are the right idea. Question, though. If you control a natural process, is it still natural? What would the fermentation produce if not controlled?

That being said, think I'll go have a drink of the 'wine' I picked up earlier tonight. Nothing better than Welch's! :wink

[swathdiver]

Many Christians enjoy wine or other alcoholic drinks.  

 

You sipping saints, what are the two verses where God tells you that you'll be cursed for drinking booze and what are they?  Surely KOB you came across them during your exhaustive study, right?  Was that study done with a King James Bible or the MVs?

 

 

 

I expect that one day in heaven I will get to partake of the wine Jesus made.  

 

It is the abuse of alcohol, not alcohol, that destroys

 

I merely enjoy a God given substance in moderation.  

 

If you were to come to my house I would offer you tea or soda. 

 

 

 

The course that you're on KOB, you may never see His face, wise up boy!  No bible believing baptist would knowingly come to your home to fellowship with a drunkard.  That's what God says you sipping saints are.  

 

The biggest laugh is the moderation excuse.  An abstainer from drinking does not pass from moderation to excess but moderate drinkers do.  Domestic violence, rape, crime, car wrecks, child abuse mostly stem from people drinking.  The Bible does not teach moderation at all, neither abstinence, it teaches prohibition.  It's our worst enemy.  Most of the verses posted today clearly contradict your MV term paper and yet you ignore God's Word.  When God says not to look at it, you do it anyway to your peril!

 

Take a sip and you're a drunkard and believer's know that no drunkard will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

God's eternal Word is supernatural, the natural man cannot understand it, indeed it's foolish to him.  

[Alimantado]

Take a sip and you're a drunkard and believer's know that no drunkard will inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

And we're back to the OP! If somebody takes a sip of alcohol at some point, it means they are unsaved, and no unsaved person will ever take a sip of alcohol after they have been saved, according to Swath. That's a very clear answer to the OP.

[John81]

And we're back to the OP! If somebody takes a sip of alcohol at some point, it means they are unsaved, and no unsaved person will ever take a sip of alcohol after they have been saved, according to Swath. That's a very clear answer to the OP.

I don't know if you are being serious or sarcastic, or some other word I probably can't even spell!

 

Biblically, if a saved person takes a drink of alcohol, takes the Lord's name in vain, commits rape, theft or murder, they have absolutely sinned but they have not lost their salvation.

 

When one is saved they are forever saved. Salvation isn't something that can be lost.

[robmac68]

Proper study will reveal that both verse 3 and verse 8 are unfermented

How is a person "given" to unfermented wine (vs3)????

 

" vs3  No drunkard: Not given to wine. The priests were not to drink wine when they went in to minister (Lev. 10:8, Lev. 10:9 ), lest they should drink and pervert the law.

vs8  Not given to much wine; for this is a great disparagement to any man, especially to a Christian, and one in office, unfits men for business, opens the door to many temptations. (Matthew Henry Commentary)"

 

Syriac version renders it, "who does not transgress over wine", or go beyond due bounds in the use of it, who is not immoderate in it; the Arabic version renders it, "not insolent through wine",  (John Gill Commentary)

 

Leviticus 10:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

⁸ And the Lord spake unto Aaron, saying,

⁹ Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

 

Why was Aaron told not to drink before going into the tabernacle rather than being told not to drink whatsoever like the Nazarites in Numbers chapter 6?