Billy Graham

[Invicta]

I used to work with a man who was a mason.  He tried to   get me to join.  I said I couldn't as I was a Christian.  he said that didn't matter as he had a lot of Christians in his lodge including a bishop.  Another who I worked more closely with was much more secretive and never mentioned his lodge, except when he was going to a meeting.

[John81]

Christians who are also Masons, if they are true Christians and not just secular Christians, suffer from a lack of knowledge. Not knowing the Word, not learning how we are called to live, not receiving or perhaps not accepting being discipled, leaves baby Christians as babes in the faith. They don't know enough to see the incompatibility of belonging to a secret society, such as the Masons, and living a life pleasing to God.

From my limited experience, it seems most Masons who call themselves Christians are only secular (some would call them cultural) Christians and not actual born again in Christ true Christians. They, like all other lost souls, are in need of hearing the Gospel and becoming actual Christians.

[Old-Pilgrim]

I have a relative who has spent a few years in the Florida area of the states, he said that People were much more open about involvement in Masonry, and it seemed to be a more socially open thing than it is in the UK.

What about The SMOM,  an elite Roman Catholic Knighthood headed by a Grandmaster who works at the behest of the Pope, connection? ie "puff Graham", the 'puff Graham' has a sort of double meaning, it is a reference to the way the old flash on the cameras would go off with a flash and i think a noise and a puff of smoke, and at the same time 'Graham' in this case would be 'puffed up' by the media. Those two sites above are just to cross reference who it was who promoted Grahams ministry and got him into the public eye. I think a general tactic of warfare would be to put your man in the enemy camp 'puff him' for a while then once he has a following he can lead them back to Rome. I know the RC Orders had resident closet Catholics left in the church of England in order to work from within it to take it back to Rome, they run things such as 'the Oxford Movement' I Think the Jesuit Order, which is also a military order, has done more damage to the USA than any other single organisation.

The RC Military Order owned Media would never have promoted Graham if they never trusted that they could rely on him to help their cause.

Another Guy who covers the Jesuits and Rome and it's warfare on the US and the Church is http://www.spirituallysmart.com/ . He is Christian but Doctrinally a bit off. This site is good for the political side of Rome. Not as polished as C Pinto.

[Golgotha]

On 4/24/2012 at 9:13 AM, John81 said:

No doubt some were saved over the years through Billy Graham's preaching, yet how many had their growth in Christ stunted by being shuttled into unsound churches and false religions? How many were not saved through a Billy Graham event yet went forward to learn more only to be pointed to a church which didn't preach the Gospel?

Any time we trust in our own efforts there will be trouble and work for the Lord will be hampered. While it may seem right and smart to yoke with the RCC and wayward churches in order to preach to more people, what is truly right and smart is obeying the Word of God and trusting Him with the results.

The religious rudiment that Billy Graham uses may very well be in an IFB church;  the commitment to follow Christ.

A commitment is like a promise;  and thus a yoke of bondage.  The irony is that after preaching the gospel, Billy Graham gave the opposite of the gospel message at the altar call by saying, "If you are not sure you are saved, come forward & make a commitment to follow Christ."

Granted, just by hearing the gospel & believing in Him is how any one is saved, but the altar call denies that salvation has been given by faith in Jesus Christ without works & also promotes finishing by the flesh what was already begun with the Spirit when they had believed in Him.

Obeying God's words is by believing in Him & trusting Him at His word, but I do wonder how many IFB members see nothing wrong with the believer's commitment to follow Christ as if that is how we can follow Him is by the power of our flesh & will in keeping that commitment to follow Him when we can only follow the Son of God by faith in Him & all His promises to us?

Those that see nothing wrong with it, must ask how they can claim this part of scripture as their testimony of Him?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is prevalent on how many believers can see that doing circumcision which is the smallest letter of the law, can put a saved believer under the whole law, and yet when it comes to making promises to God which is the biggest letter of the law, they somehow exempt themselves as if they are not under the law by using God's grace to keep on trying to keep that commitment or promise that only God can keep & finish,   They do not fear God in that respect.

They continue to make assumptions not supported by scripture whereas scripture reproves their assumptions like.. thinking that God will help them keep their promises or their commitment to follow Him.  No, His words says He will not.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

It is a man's promise;  therefore he has to do it.  God has made His promises, and He keeps them. 

Here is something else that a commitment or a promise to follow Christ does.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

By that commitment or promise is the knowledge of sin.

That believer's commitment or promise is a work of the believer's hands;  not God's hands.

That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith... faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

Why promise that which is under His New Covenant to keep & finish since He will finish His work in us & He will help us to follow Him as His disciples.

And so where is that faith in light of that believer's commitment to follow Him?  Nowhere because that keeping that commitment to follow Christ denies faith in Him & His promise to us as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Like it or not, it is an ego trip to see how many a person can lead a sinner or an unsure but yet saved believer to make a commitment to follow Christ, and Billy Graham will always have a problem getting off of that pedestal that people put him on for leading so many to the Lord as if he was the one that did  it; which he did not.  In fact, he led them away from their rest in Jesus Christ by taking away the assurance of their salvation by faith in Him to keeping that commitment to follow Christ to gain that assurance of their salvation.

Granted, Billy Graham is ecumenical in nature, but that rudiment of making a commitment to follow Christ is the false prophet that is gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles as it is something that can be found in other religions of the world where many wise men in the flesh, many might, and many nobles are called to for the praises of men.

Having believed in Jesus Christ as our Saviour is how we were saved & trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is how any believer can follow Him as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

It is no wonder why Billy Graham doubts that he would be received by Jesus Christ because he has said that he was not always a good christian, and thus he can never have that assurance of salvation as long as he thinks keeping that commitment to follow Christ is how he or any one else is saved by thus laboring in unbelief & coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ for not ceasing from his own work as God did from His.  Hebrews 4:1-3,9-16

May every IFB member that has spoken of that commitment to follow Christ, cease to speak of it, asking Jesus Christ to set them free to follow Him by faith for He is our Good Shepherd & not just our Saviour.  May we be witnesses of the Son by declaring our faith in Him for that is the exalted testimony we are to have as His disciples.

A believer's commitment glorifies himself in receiving the praise of men for the work of their hands in keeping it.

A believer's faith in Jesus Christ to help him to follow Him glorifies Jesus Christ as we are the work of His hands.

There is no way to compromise the two because a believer's commitment to follow Christ voids faith in Him to do it.

[Invicta]

On 6/26/2016 at 3:51 PM, Golgotha said:

Granted, just by hearing the gospel & believing in Him is how any one is saved, but the altar call denies that salvation has been given by faith in Jesus Christ without works & also promotes finishing by the flesh what was already begun with the Spirit when they had believed in Him.

Obeying God's words is by believing in Him & trusting Him at His word, but I do wonder how many IFB members see nothing wrong with the believer's commitment to follow Christ as if that is how we can follow Him is by the power of our flesh & will in keeping that commitment to follow Him when we can only follow the Son of God by faith in Him & all His promises to us?

Those that see nothing wrong with it, must ask how they can claim this part of scripture as their testimony o

f Him?

I see the altar call as a false teaching, it undermines the Holy Spirit's power to convict and convince. I  do know of some in my own family who were saved at the early Graham rallies in the UK who went on to be fine Baptists till the end of their lives.  I also know of some who went into the charismatic movement..  While it would seem that the Graham influence was negative, 

Lu 15:7  I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Lu 15:10  Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth.

That is the heart fo the gospel, repentance.

[swathdiver]

I would say that Graham has done more harm than good to the cause of Christ.  He's quoted as preaching a false gospel from his earliest days, the world loves him, and when uniting with Catholics, when at his crusades, Catholics came forward to be saved, they would be directed back to the Whore of Revelations 17.  How evil and wicked and deceptive is that?

[wretched]

On 2/14/2013 at 6:42 PM, Invicta said:

I have always had problems with that word.  Crusades were evil wars.  Many of them were conducted to exterminate Christians.

Crusade is the catholic word for jihad.

[Invicta]

On 7/11/2016 at 2:51 AM, wretched said:

Crusade is the catholic word for jihad.

The Vatican considered Hitler's war against the USSR as a crusade.

[heartstrings]

Based on what I've seen/heard him say, he was a deceiver. What about his son, Franklin? Anyone know much about him?

[John Yurich]

Billy Graham has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through giving ones life to Christ and trusting in Him alone for salvation. And thus Graham has never believed that Baptism has something to do with salvation.

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:03 PM, swathdiver said:

I would say that Graham has done more harm than good to the cause of Christ.  He's quoted as preaching a false gospel from his earliest days, the world loves him, and when uniting with Catholics, when at his crusades, Catholics came forward to be saved, they would be directed back to the Whore of Revelations 17.  How evil and wicked and deceptive is that?

Totally false. Graham has never preached a false gospel as he has always preached in his Crusades the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through giving ones life to Christ and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 0:06 PM, heartstrings said:

Based on what I've seen/heard him say, he was a deceiver. What about his son, Franklin? Anyone know much about him?

Totally false. Graham is not and has never been a deceiver as he has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation. Every time I have heard Graham preach he always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation.

[heartstrings]

"I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God. But I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me."
-Billy Graham, quoted by Briton Hadden & H. R. Luce, Time, Vol. 78, Time Inc., 1961, p. 612 

 

"I would be for abortion in violent rape... I take the same stand that the pope takes, I'm against abortion, except in cases of rape..."
-Billy Graham, interviewed on Larry King Live, January, 1988, retrieved July 15, 2013, 

 

"Since his election, Pope John Paul II has emerged as the greatest religious leader of the modern world, and one of the greatest moral and spiritual leaders of this century... The Pope came [to America] as a statesman and a pastor, but I believe he also sees himself coming as an evangelist, forthrightly urging those who have perhaps given little thought to spiritual matters to realize the truth of the Christian message and commit their lives to Christ... The Pope sought to speak to the spiritual hunger of our age in the same way Christians throughout the centuries have spoken to the spiritual yearnings of every age—by pointing people to Christ... Also, in countless ways many evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics are discovering they share a common bond through their mutual commitment to the Christian faith... Recently I learned that the word 'pontiff,' (a title by which the Pope is often known) comes from the Latin words which originally meant 'bridge builder.' During his visit to America, Pope John Paul II was indeed a bridge builder, and that is something our divided world desperately needs. In a world which often seems to have lost its way, his voice will continue to remind us of our responsibilities to each other—and to God."
-Billy Graham, "The Pilgrim Pope: A Builder of Bridges," Saturday Evening Post, January-February, 1980

"I think that hell essentially is separation from God forever. And that is the worst hell that I can think of. But I think people have a hard time believing God is going to allow people to burn in literal fire forever. I think the fire that is mentioned in the Bible is a burning thirst for God that can never be quenched."
-Orlando Sentinel, Florida, Apr 10, 1983 
 

[heartstrings]

Frost: "Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?"  Graham: "The tremendous discipline that they have in Islam in the sense that there's a judgment if you do wrong, and there's a tremendous hope that people have that you are Islamic. Suppose you die on the battlefield fighting for Islam, the promises they give you for the first thousand years would make any young man say, 'Well, I think that's what I'd like to have.' They have so many things. And I think Islam is misunderstood too, because Mohammed had a great respect for Jesus, and he called Jesus the greatest of the prophets except himself. And I think that we're closer to Islam than we really think we are."

-Billy Graham, Interview with David Frost, "Talking with David Frost: Reverend Billy Graham," David Paradine Television, Feb 18, 1997

[John Yurich]

21 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Frost: "Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?"  Graham: "The tremendous discipline that they have in Islam in the sense that there's a judgment if you do wrong, and there's a tremendous hope that people have that you are Islamic. Suppose you die on the battlefield fighting for Islam, the promises they give you for the first thousand years would make any young man say, 'Well, I think that's what I'd like to have.' They have so many things. And I think Islam is misunderstood too, because Mohammed had a great respect for Jesus, and he called Jesus the greatest of the prophets except himself. And I think that we're closer to Islam than we really think we are."

-Billy Graham, Interview with David Frost, "Talking with David Frost: Reverend Billy Graham," David Paradine Television, Feb 18, 1997

Why would you believe those articles about Graham that are nothing but false and full of lies? Graham does not really believe that stuff that he stated because of the fact that he has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only by giving ones life to Christ. Nobody in their right mind believes that Graham believes the stuff he stated in those articles.

[HappyChristian]

So Graham doesn't believe the stuff he says he believes? That would then make him a liar...

Again, tone down the rhetoric. Asking why someone believes what they have read (that are word-for-word what the person stated) is fine.  Asserting that only crazy people believe that what someone says they believe is actually what they believe isn't going to fly here.  Second thread in which you've had to be told tone it down.

 

[John Yurich]

4 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

So Graham doesn't believe the stuff he says he believes? That would then make him a liar...

Again, tone down the rhetoric. Asking why someone believes what they have read (that are word-for-word what the person stated) is fine.  Asserting that only crazy people believe that what someone says they believe is actually what they believe isn't going to fly here.  Second thread in which you've had to be told tone it down.

 

If Graham has preached the biblical doctrine of salvation in his Crusades then logically that means that he does not believe that stuff he stated in those articles.