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  1. What you say is true when a sinner is born again as saved, for that is when we are clean, but... Jesus said this about being His disciples. John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. Abiding in Him as His disciples by His grace & by His help is how we can be received as vessels unto honor in His House; and His warning applies to when a saved believer stops abiding in Him as His disciple which then comes at the pre trib rapture, they will be cut off, unless they repent in time before the Bridegroom comes. You cannot say that a saved believer cannot be cut off when Jesus warned us that we can be in verse 6. Jesus gave the same warning about preparing ourselves in Luke 12:40-49 as He again mentions a cutting off to have that portion with the unbelievers left behind to face the fire coming on the earth. You have Paul testifying to the possibility of being a castaway. hence a cutting off in 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 Paul warned us about how we build on that foundation; 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & the consequences thereof of having the temple of God be destroyed in verse 17 in that day that fire is coming in verse 13, but they are saved as testified in verse 15. So a saved believer that foolishly sowed to the works of the flesh & had reaped corruption is going to receive the wages for those unrepentant sins: physical death. What do you think makes up the so called vessels unto "dishonor" in His House? Why wouldn't those saved believers get cut off for their religious tares & unrepentant sins? You have to explain those passages instead of just saying I misinterpreted them if you still believe otherwise. All truly born again are presented white as snow and spotless to God, all inquity wiped away from the second of salvation for all eternity. You still misinterpret most passages you present friend. You think the religious lost and tares are saved. Only a lost religious tare will have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They believe with their lips but their hearts are far from Him. Interesting theory though I will admit but i googled your ideas and see that they are not that imaginative. Apparently the church of Christ came up with this idea first so I assume you come out of that group rejecting their emotional "faith" but still clinging to some of their teachings. This would also explain your disdain for their following seducing spirits and your being careful not to join a group like that again. I was not of the Church of Christ. I was formerly Presbyterian but did have Bible Studies with other affiliated groups like the Crossing Paths ministry & one other group... which I have forgotten now.. other than the one I had attended given by my youth group of my former church in growing up. I was not confronted with the supernatural until 1994 when I had visited my Aunt's church in Missouri, and my Lord warned me about this a week earlier. I did not know that this was it until after having been exposed to it. I had read something from a Daily Bread or an Upper Room booklet that put the question to me; "Decide this day whom you will serve; the Lord Jesus Christ or something else in His name". I had felt an urgency to make this decision. I said to the Lord, "Well.. you of course." but the urgency remained, and so I said, "Please help me to do this." and it was right after that was when I had His peace. And so sure enough.. a week later... I was exposed to the spirits behind the holy laughter movement; and the Lord kept me from following it in serving & sharing in its glory. I gave Him thanks for that and still do. So no... not affiliated with the Church of Christ. Do not confuse the choosing of the 144,000 Jewish Witnesses for the great tribulation plus the two other witnesses as being the only saints in that great tribulation. Those witnesses were mentioned because the time of the Gentiles will end when the disposition of the gospel go back to the Jews. The fall of Babylon was mentioned in Revelation 18th chapter & the saints were slain in her wherein the voice of the bride & bridegroom will no longer be heard in her any more. That fall of Babylon took place in between the 1st angel giving the gospel to every one & the third angel warning every one of the consequence for taking the mark of the beast which is the lake of fire. Revelation 14:6-11 Those 3 angels sets up the hour of trial that shall try all on the earth as everyone left behind will know the gospel & the consequence for taking the mark of the beast as that fall of Babylon when one third of the earth is burned up ( hence the entire western hemisphere is how & why New World Order will come about with their mark of the beast system to buy & sell because of limited resources in the world. Other than this to testify how bad it will be in the churches in Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30; Jesus said this as a cryptic warning as how bad it will be before He comes as to why only a few be raptured. Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? Only two churches out of seven in Revelations were ready & abiding in Him, but they were exhorted to hold fast and one was given the outright warning of being cast into the great tribulation unless they repent which is also the waring to the other five not abiding in Him. Then explain why His words called those left behind as saints in Revelation 18th chapter that had to be made to rest from their labors as their works will follow them; which I interpret it as wood, stubble, & hay.. works that deny Him.. as their works will follow them to death as in dust to dust & ashes to ashes? You can't say new believers after the everlasting gospel was preached ( although it could include them ) BUT Hebrews 4:1-11 comes to mind about laboring in unbelief & thus refusing to cease from their own works to rest in Him, thus made to rest from their labors. So that is why I do not see those saints as new believers being made to rest from their labors, although after the rapture & the everlasting gospel; there will be new believers, but hardly any works to follow new believers to ashes. So this has to apply to the religious that profess Him ( even those wayward saints in the supernatural that profess Him in keeping with the OP ) that you deemed as unsaved, because Paul went on to the 3rd chapter of Thessalonians as clarifying those wicked & unreasonable men that have not faith which follow not after the traditions taught of us & are disorderly that we are to withdraw from them NOT in treating them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still. Do note that after describing them as all that, Paul calls them brothers still. He did not go beyond what you did by saying that they were never saved or that they were unsaved. Something to discern about with Him, brother.
  2. The point of no return of being received as a vessel unto honor is when the Bridegroom has come & gone and then those unrepentant but saved believers would have been left behind, but to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor after the great tribulation. The souls of unrepentant saints that have passed on in this life before the pre trib rapture, are with the Lord, but still waiting under the altar for their inheritance as a vessel unto dishonor in His House just as the souls of repentant saints are awaiting still for their first inheritance as vessels unto honor in joining the Lord at the Marriage Supper. Running that race by faith in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd in laying aside every weight & sin is a continual application of faith in Him to finish that race for us in this life; as the just can only live by faith. Exanple #1 It is when a saved believer has put off such application of faith in Him to keep them from falling to present them faultless by just following the crowd in going to church every Sunday, joining in without discerning by leaning on Him as their Good Shepherd in whatever iniquity that the church is practicing is how one can be found as unprepared to meet Him. It is in this 1st example that applies to the OP is how many saved believers follow the crowd when the supernatural happens at their church & the church seek after those seducing spirits to receive after a sign... even the sign of tongues which comes with no interpretation by thinking they are opening themselves up to receive the Holy Spirit "again" which they cannot do when He is already in them as promised. ( 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & Matthew 12:39 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & Timothy 4:1-2 & 2 Timothy 2:16,24-26 & 1 Corinthians 14:20-22,33-34 & Proverbs 25:26-28 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephesians 4:4-6 ) Example #2 Also, any saved believer that departed from faith & are no longer a believer or have put off walking with Christ to casually & unrepenttantly live in the world in sin by sowing to the works of the flesh are at risk of being denied by Him which is the result of being left behind, but yet explians why they are dishonorable when they are received by Him after the great tribulation for their inheritance of being damned forever as a vessel unto dishonor, but still in His HOuse. There are still in His House because they show the amazing grace & power of salvation for any that even just believe in His name as that alone glorifies Jesus as our Savior AND how He is faithful to finish even His work in those left behind in bringing the "lost & paid for sheep Home as our Good Shepherd. The two examples are how saved believers can be in His House presently in this life, but hardly running the race at all for they are NOT looking to the author & finisher of our faith to finish His work in them as our Good Shepherd before the Bridegroom comes. 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. 1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. It is by running that race by trusting Him ( and we need His help to do even that as well ) as the author & finisher of our faith daily is how we are leaning on Him daily to purge iniquity from us by helping us to continually lay aside every weight & sin until He brings us Home by inheritting that vessel unto honor in His House at the rapture. We are not perfect yet, but that is what running that race by faith in Him to finish His work in us is all about, & it has been prophesied that many saved believers will not be doing that in these latter days, but have gone astray & find them not preapred by Him to meet the Bridegroom with joy.. Running that race by faith in the Son of God in us & all His promises to us requires "easy believism". Believe Him as our Savior that we are saved simply by our believing in the gospel which we had heard & believe Him to be our Good Shepherd in preparing a place for us ( which also means preparing us ) so that we may be received by Him in our Father's mansion at the pre trib rapture. Since we can only serve Him by faith as He enables us, then no elect will have anything to boast about except in the Lord in Heaven. Indeed, the crowns we receive are His crowning achievements in us & the good work He has done in us & through us is to His glory. So believe. Believe in Him all the way Home. A child can do that for all they can do is trust the Lord at His word.
  3. From the article " It is no wonder, then, that Paul exhorted us to “work out” the priceless salvation that has been given to us with “fear and trembling.” God is “working” in us, and He expects us to “will and to do his good pleasure” (Philippians 2:13). HMM III " Actually, the message is to expect Him to help us to will and to do his good pleasure BECAUSE He is the One working in us. If we include verse 13 with verse 12, we can see the message by His grace & by His help. Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Respecting God in this "fear & trembling" is how any of us can really work out our salvation since He began the work in us, then we are to expect Him to finish it to His glory. Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: 7 Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace. 8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ. 9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God. Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Also note that the use of the "wherefore" in Philippians 2:12, is also including another obedience mentioned prior in verses 5-11 which is having that mind of Christ in worship to exalt the name of His Son, Jesus Christ, which is above every other name, hence not the "Trinity" & not the "Holy Spirit" to be addressed in worship, but the Son in worship to the glory of God the Father. It is the Father's will in how He wants us to come to Him & honor Him by. John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber...... Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Combining the message of Luke 13:24-30 with John 10:1,7-9, may He help us to see the double meaning of saved believers also being saved from what is coming on the earth as the elect inherit life everlasting. But not every believer will be found ready & abiding in Him as His disciple as hoping in Him to have them depart from all iniquity before the Bridegroom comes as only He can finish that race to His glory. 1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. Psalm 100:3 Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man. Saved believers should fear & tremble, because it is Jesus Christ working in us in leading us Home to His glory, and no believer can claim any of His work by his keeping his own commitment to follow Christ which is by the flesh. Either we rely on Him all the times as our Good Shepherd by our faith in Him, thus being a true witness OR we are talking about ourselves in how religious we are in our confidence in our flesh to follow Him by keeping that commitment or promise to do so. May those that hear, ask Jesus to set them free to rest in Him & all His promises. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
  4. The religious rudiment that Billy Graham uses may very well be in an IFB church; the commitment to follow Christ. A commitment is like a promise; and thus a yoke of bondage. The irony is that after preaching the gospel, Billy Graham gave the opposite of the gospel message at the altar call by saying, "If you are not sure you are saved, come forward & make a commitment to follow Christ." Granted, just by hearing the gospel & believing in Him is how any one is saved, but the altar call denies that salvation has been given by faith in Jesus Christ without works & also promotes finishing by the flesh what was already begun with the Spirit when they had believed in Him. Obeying God's words is by believing in Him & trusting Him at His word, but I do wonder how many IFB members see nothing wrong with the believer's commitment to follow Christ as if that is how we can follow Him is by the power of our flesh & will in keeping that commitment to follow Him when we can only follow the Son of God by faith in Him & all His promises to us? Those that see nothing wrong with it, must ask how they can claim this part of scripture as their testimony of Him? Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. It is prevalent on how many believers can see that doing circumcision which is the smallest letter of the law, can put a saved believer under the whole law, and yet when it comes to making promises to God which is the biggest letter of the law, they somehow exempt themselves as if they are not under the law by using God's grace to keep on trying to keep that commitment or promise that only God can keep & finish, They do not fear God in that respect. They continue to make assumptions not supported by scripture whereas scripture reproves their assumptions like.. thinking that God will help them keep their promises or their commitment to follow Him. No, His words says He will not. Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth. It is a man's promise; therefore he has to do it. God has made His promises, and He keeps them. Here is something else that a commitment or a promise to follow Christ does. Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God. By that commitment or promise is the knowledge of sin. That believer's commitment or promise is a work of the believer's hands; not God's hands. That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith... faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us. Why promise that which is under His New Covenant to keep & finish since He will finish His work in us & He will help us to follow Him as His disciples. And so where is that faith in light of that believer's commitment to follow Him? Nowhere because that keeping that commitment to follow Christ denies faith in Him & His promise to us as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. Like it or not, it is an ego trip to see how many a person can lead a sinner or an unsure but yet saved believer to make a commitment to follow Christ, and Billy Graham will always have a problem getting off of that pedestal that people put him on for leading so many to the Lord as if he was the one that did it; which he did not. In fact, he led them away from their rest in Jesus Christ by taking away the assurance of their salvation by faith in Him to keeping that commitment to follow Christ to gain that assurance of their salvation. Granted, Billy Graham is ecumenical in nature, but that rudiment of making a commitment to follow Christ is the false prophet that is gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles as it is something that can be found in other religions of the world where many wise men in the flesh, many might, and many nobles are called to for the praises of men. Having believed in Jesus Christ as our Saviour is how we were saved & trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is how any believer can follow Him as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ. It is no wonder why Billy Graham doubts that he would be received by Jesus Christ because he has said that he was not always a good christian, and thus he can never have that assurance of salvation as long as he thinks keeping that commitment to follow Christ is how he or any one else is saved by thus laboring in unbelief & coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ for not ceasing from his own work as God did from His. Hebrews 4:1-3,9-16 May every IFB member that has spoken of that commitment to follow Christ, cease to speak of it, asking Jesus Christ to set them free to follow Him by faith for He is our Good Shepherd & not just our Saviour. May we be witnesses of the Son by declaring our faith in Him for that is the exalted testimony we are to have as His disciples. A believer's commitment glorifies himself in receiving the praise of men for the work of their hands in keeping it. A believer's faith in Jesus Christ to help him to follow Him glorifies Jesus Christ as we are the work of His hands. There is no way to compromise the two because a believer's commitment to follow Christ voids faith in Him to do it.
  5. In a christian church, a rebuke would be appropriate, but if unrepentant, then an excommunication whereas as in a place of an employment, a week's suspension without pay with an option to end that suspension pending an apology may be given to the employee as a chance to repent, otherwise, the employee would just look for another job while on suspension, but eventually he or she would be considered terminated after that week's suspension due to the lack of the apology. Upon returning after having given what is believed to be a heartfelt apology, if the employee does that particular offense again, then termination is required for such a person to have the proper motivation to not to do that at the next's job. I think the Lord would lead me to do that, but as it is, it is moot since I am not a manager.
  6. I want to join the King James Bible forum & the Men's Forum but I see no "Apply" link at the top of the page. Where is it? I have used the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the web page, in giving my request to join those two groups, and still no response.
  7. Here in the forum is about as much personal one on one situation one can get. Plus it gives the other time to research, look up Bible references, for reproof or for proof for edifying one another. For the longest time & I am the only one having that kind of a problem. The telltale is when the manager said repeatedly that the headphones do not operate on batteries & that by sitting in the middle of the theatre with the front of the head phone pointing towards the screen was how I was to receive the best reception but as I do this, suddenly, I get static. Then the manager changed her story to align with the guy behind the counter about recharging the batteries, and the guy was acting funny when I looked to see him as he was behind me. Been done so many times, I have to consider the possibility that my folks' computer has been compromised as there have been evidence of people coming into the home. I think they had wi fi the computer as I see this hardware on it, and probably why they having a big laugh at my expense as I am figuring this out since no virus or malware has been found on this computer, but I shall try this link. Thanks. Thanks. Tell your 6 year old son, thanks too.
  8. The plain text is that verses 19-21 is a call to depart from iniquity and the reference to those two kinds of vessels in His House testify how those purging themselves of the iniquity is how any believer can be received as a vessel unto honor in His House. So that means the vessels unto dishonor are those that have not departed from iniquity, even though they are still in His House. The reason God is judging His House first at the pre trib rapture is obvious to me by the practice He has set forth for the church in 1 Corinthians 5th chapter about excommunicating those in unrepentant iniquity. The metaphors there in regards to eating & fellowship shows why God would do this in excommunicating saved, but unrepentant believers from attending the Marriage Supper. 1 Corinthians 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.....7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.....11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. As God led Paul to instruct the church to do to have that feast of fellowship, so will God do at the pre trib rapture event for the Marriage Supper because not every saved believer will be ready & found abiding in Him as His disciples which is why they are left behind, designating that dishonor while in His House still.
  9. Although the OP has been answered, I don't think any one can really speak for any IFB church. Questioning what makes up an IFB by showing if an IFB church is really Biblical in being fundamental. The notion of answering to no outside authority does make one wonder if they mean "except Christ of course". As it is by precedent, an IFB can be Pentecostal/Charismatic in practice & no other IFB can do anything about it. Indeed, can an IFB that claim to be Biblical fundamentalist hold to that claim when worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son? By His words, I would say not. 1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. So in truth, the only iron sharpening iron will have to happen here in an IFB forum since no one can really vouch for any IFB church in my local area unless they, themselves, have been there. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. A forum is the only place to speak up in wherein a scheduled & timed sermon or Sunday School lesson does not really leave any lee way for those having necessary question for growth in sub topics or off topics. So my first response in this thread was by questioning the definition of an IFB church by addressing a major iniquity in all denomenations that seemingly are unaware of as even Fundamentalist Baptists denomenations that answer to an outside authority do as well. So far, as far as my understanding of what an IFB church is, each IFB church may be as well. All it takes is a hymnal to introduce that iniquity, and then pretty soon, they have that mentality that they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign, especially when something strange happens when focusing on the Holy Spirit in honoring Him in worship. So let every IFB member & forum members discern with His help in what & how every one is speaking to see if we are speaking the same thing & holding to the same judgment, since after all, it is not our church we are representing in seeking the glory of, but the Lord Jesus Christ in seeking His glory & no other as that is what His disciples do.
  10. Look at the sin that the Holy Spirit will reprove the world of as sinners. John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. So the only heartfelt conviction is to believe on Jesus Christ, even in His name = easy believism. Discipleship comes afterward. 2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. So a saved believer can find himself in a worse sinful state than from before when overcome by sowing to the works of the flesh. Would this not apply to the prodigal son that spent his first inheritance for wild living? He will suffer loss as a vessel unto dishonor, but he is still in His House because he is still son.
  11. I agree. Do you know why some members think I should just go find an IFB church if they cannot really vouch for it? Seems like they want me to think I need a more personal encounter for my edification in an IFB church rather than get it here in the forum. Not sure why they would promote that if they cannot vouch for that benefit either from any local IFB church, if there is such a one. As it is, I am under oppression & a special kind of persecution that is unbelievable as I am unable to go to church or anywhere because of my enemies sowing discord & tempting people to do mischief on me even when I go out to eat, which I try not to any more & I have stopped wearing the listening aid devices at the theatres, because they keep turning it off in giving me air static. Even this computer is compromised at times as web pages flip all on their own without me doing it. Nobody is going to believe it until they go to Heaven to see what the Lord carried me through. As it is, I cannot have fellowship. It is fortunate that I live with my folks, but I am blessed that Jesus is keeping me from losing my cool, and helping me to consider this suffering as something I should be glad in since I am seeing Him helping me through it. I definitely can relate to some of the Psalms. Psalm 56:1 Be merciful unto me, O God: for man would swallow me up; he fighting daily oppresseth me. 2 Mine enemies would daily swallow me up: for they be many that fight against me, O thou most High. 3 What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. 4 In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what flesh can do unto me. 5 Every day they wrest my words: all their thoughts are against me for evil. 6 They gather themselves together, they hide themselves, they mark my steps, when they wait for my soul. 7 Shall they escape by iniquity? in thine anger cast down the people, O God. 8 Thou tellest my wanderings: put thou my tears into thy bottle: are they not in thy book? 9 When I cry unto thee, then shall mine enemies turn back: this I know; for God is for me. 10 In God will I praise his word: in the Lord will I praise his word. 11 In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do unto me. 12 Thy vows are upon me, O God: I will render praises unto thee. 13 For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living? My enemies may think I am stupid, & the devil would like to press that point to me to get mad after the fact, but Jesus reminds me that He just did not allow me to see what they were doing until I was away from them. In any event, I am glad because hoo boy. Living in America where liberty & justice for all is a joke. I have to die as an American to have Christ in me enabling me to live as His in following Him so He is helping me to be ready if & when identity theft comes or even if I get framed for a crime I did not commit. It would not be hard for them to do. I thank Jesus for being my Friend in keeping me as His friend in helping me to follow Him in forgiving my enemies daily & hope in Him for my deliverance at the pre trib rapture soon.
  12. Because there was no rainbow until after the flood had abated since the rainbow served as a reminder of a promise that God would not destroy the earth again with a world wide flood. I believe that the impact craters on the moon and all the ones known on the earth, happened at the time of the flood as that would cause the moon to start moving away from the earth & the fountains of the deep to rise up. Do not the moon govern the tides? So as there was a mist watering the whole earth, the meteorite impacts on the moon, the gravitional pull as a result of the moon moving away from the earth would lead the mist on the earth to condense to form rain clouds to rain for the first time on earth as well as tides to rise around that one land continent with tsunamis as a result of meteorites hitting the earth. The formation of the mid Atlantic Ridge which is underwater today was where the fountains of the deep rose up from. That means the Atlantic Ocean was a region that made up the one land continent before it began to divide itself in the days of Peleg in the Bible by dropping below sea level. Underwater archeological evidence does show structures underwater in the Atlantic region. Atlantis has been found as rumors of it just sinking in the ocean can be confirmed. The cavity left vacant when the fountains of the deep was forced up is why eventually, the land collapsed. Scientists has discovered an underground ocean near the earth core as I can see the evidence of the run off of the water from the great flood over USA, running towards China's underwater Mariana trench in creating the Grand Canyon as it does fuel the imagination. But basically, I believe the whole point of the rainbow was testifying that there was no rain before the flood. Just because there was some men around to till the ground, it does not mean there was enough men to do the job well. As the population grew, the earth still needed that mist to water the whole earth. But the flood and the factors that caused it is why it rained for the first time & since then, bringing about the rainbow set by the Lord as a reminder of a promise to the people that He would not flood the earth like that again. What brings about a rainbow? Rain on a sunny day. Sounds like something God has ordained after the flood.
  13. Parent to child doing poorly in Math because he doesn't want to; "God has commanded you to do math!" "What?!" the child asked in bewilderment, "Where is that written in the Bible?!" Parent reminded the child "God said to go forth & multiply !" Child's response ->
  14. Well, I reckon I was counting on the IFB answering to the Head of the church which is Christ Jesus & His words as kept in the KJV, but I guess my perception of fundamentalism as a Biblical church may even be different in IFB churches. Thanks for sharing.

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