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I can only agree with you, but both my parents say they were saved in a situation with no follow up. I don't know their hearts, nor was I there to see what went on, but they have been attending a good IFB church for thirty years now, have heard many many strong salvation messages, now bear all the fruit you would expect to see - and both still say they were saved all those years ago.
My parents lament the fact that they each were left without direction - they knew the traditional churches were wrong, but didn't know where was right - so they gave up looking, rather than accept wrong.


I personally have never seen someone who I would.have no doubt of their salvation who does not want to be in God's houseand learning of God, but there is a reason why the Lord commanded in Matt 28:19, 20 to teach, baptise, and teach.

So many forget about the second "teach".

I had one guy try to tell me that we shouldn't try to "make disciples to ourselves" and shouldn't therefore have contact details on tracts we give out!!!!!

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Billy Graham, over the years, went his own way rather than sticking completely with scripture. He was warned by a number of men who saw the trail he was beginning to take. He chose to ignore the warni

That is then even more egregious. Because if he is preaching salvation and then lying about other things he supposedly believes, then logically folks who are lost will reject salvation because Graham

1 John 4:1-5 4 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Ev

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I can only agree with you, but both my parents say they were saved in a situation with no follow up. I don't know their hearts, nor was I there to see what went on, but they have been attending a good IFB church for thirty years now, have heard many many strong salvation messages, now bear all the fruit you would expect to see - and both still say they were saved all those years ago.
My parents lament the fact that they each were left without direction - they knew the traditional churches were wrong, but didn't know where was right - so they gave up looking, rather than accept wrong.


I personally have never seen someone who I would.have no doubt of their salvation who does not want to be in God's houseand learning of God, but there is a reason why the Lord commanded in Matt 28:19, 20 to teach, baptise, and teach.

So many forget about the second "teach".

I had one guy try to tell me that we shouldn't try to "make disciples to ourselves" and shouldn't therefore have contact details on tracts we give out!!!!!

I was born again while attending an Assemblies of God church with my girlfriend shortly after I turned 18. There was no discipleship, and that church, while preaching the biblical way of salvation, didn't go beyond that. At that time they were focused on preaching the salvation message and the impending arrival of the rapture and end times; no discipleship.

 

It was a rough first few years for me with anyone to disciple me, tell me of what is or isn't a good church, moving, etc.

 

It really wasn't until the Lord brought a good Christian man into my life as a close friend that I began being discipled. He introduced me to a fine Baptist pastor, his church and his excellent mens Bible study. It was during this time the Lord led me to the KJB too. It was also this Baptist pastor who baptized me.

 

Like your parents, I was left adrift for a time after salvation and looking back I so wish I had been discipled and grown in the Lord early on rather than seeing years pass before such happened. Even so, I'm thankful the Lord is faithful, He was ever with me and He worked all things together for good.

 

Many folks are saved under less than ideal circumstances, by less than perfect means. These people need us to be looking out for them, to disciple them and help them grow in the Lord and move in the right direction.

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If you will check out the Presbyterian you will find that they do not teach salvation only by grace though faith, although they do teach your save by grace,  but it though works, baptizing, & church membership.

 

And yes, many of his sermons seems to say by grace though faith, not of works, not of self, its a gift.

 

And because of that teaching is why he will call Catholics, brothers & sister in Christ, as well as all of those protestant churches that came out of the RCC bringing RCC teachings with them. He has been a great bridge builder, & led many churches, many people, into  false teachings.

 

I cannot speak of many Presbyterians, I have only heard one preach and his was a powerful gospel.  he was from the Free Church of Scotland, Continuing.

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I cannot speak of many Presbyterians, I have only heard one preach and his was a powerful gospel.  he was from the Free Church of Scotland, Continuing.

I think James Montgomery Boice was a Presbyterian and he gave some good sermons.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I've not yet met a person who was truly born again in Christ who wasn't interested in attending church. Every new believer I've ever known was eager to be discipled, eager to know what church to attend, eager to go as soon as possible.

 

There have been many false converts who professed they accepted Christ and not a one of them was interested in church or discipling. They claimed to be born again, but they were quick to make excuses why they couldn't go to any good church offered and why they couldn't get together for discipling.

 

This is something I also noticed when a friend and I were witnessing to Catholics. Every Catholic that was born again in Christ immediately rejected and renounced the RCC and asked about a true church they could attend. Each one of them was eager and excited to join our Bible study so they could learn the truth of Scripture.

 

Anyone we witness to that claims to accept Christ yet has no desire for the things of Christ, we need to try and guide them to examine their claim of salvation and go over the Gospel with them again; if they will allow it. Likely as not, if they claim to accept Christ but have no desire for the things of Christ, they are either outright lying about their profession or simply making a false profession for any number of reasons. Whatever the case, they are yet lost in their sins and need to be confronted with that so hopefully they won't walk away with a false sense of hope.

 

Of course, but the answer is still the same, we can't make them if they refuse, its not our fault as some seem to say when speaking in such general terms.

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Boy, Graham is a tough nut to deal with. Our church tends to draw in believers who have come from other denominations, I guess because we're such a small community. Some never fully embrace fundamentalism. One gent in our church is a really decent guy-give you the shirt off his back-but when he wanted to teach a Bible study using one of Graham's books, I had to disallow it, and he fought that, and fought all I had to tell him about Graham. he comes from a SBC background, and I think tends to see some doctrines as not terribly important, and he follows the idea of giving all your time and money for the unsaved, while kind of complaining about the needs of young believers, like he's put out by helping them, but will buy a car for an unsaved alcoholic who cares nothing for the gospel.

Not always easy getting truth across to some folks, I'm afraid. But he's slowing working his way there. He has a good heart, just a little off course. Like the guy who wanted the church to start a soup kitchen for the homeless, even though in our tiny town, there ARE no homeless, because there are no services for homeless.

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I heard from Chris Pinto that B. Graham has had ecumenical leanings from the beginning even though he used to preach the Gospel, and he was promoted in the early days by the help of a wealthy RC who was a member of the Order of Malta and who owned some of the media, so it looks to me like Rome had a mission or a plan for him from the beginning..

'Evangelist Billy Graham recalls in his new book the pivotal point in his young ministry when, during a 1949 Los Angeles crusade, a two-word directive from publisher William Randolph Hearst to "puff Graham" made him an instant celebrity nationwide.

The sudden front-page coverage showered on Graham by Hearst newspapers in mid-October (after three weeks of little notice) was quickly matched by other newspapers and newsmagazines--literally a media circus descending on his rallies under a big tent'

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-06-07/local/me-1034_1_billy-graham-recalls

http://moversandshakersofthesmom.blogspot.co.uk/2008/08/william-randolph-hearst.html

The SMOM is an elite Roman Catholic Knighthood headed by a Grandmaster who works at the behest of the Pope. Membership is derived from Politics, Industry, Finance, Military, Intelligence, Media and Entertainment. Knights and Dames first swear loyalty to the Pope and then to their country. "Defending the faith" and helping fellow members while serving the Order constitutes their ethics.

 

. It is also said that he is a 33rd degree Freemason. Apparently there was some book written about freemasonry and it had named Billy Graham as a Mason, but the publishers would not publish the book until his name was taken out, so it was, and the book just stated that a very well know evangelical Preacher was a member of The Masons. I think I heard that on C Pintos MP3 version of Freemasonary in the Church or his other one the Jesuit Conspiracy.

http://www.adullamfilms.com/FreemasonryInChurchCD.html

I would recommend Chris Pinto's work on the Topic of the Mystery religions influence on America, he's done about 5 or 6 Documentaries and these two CD's I think there is also a shorter version of these CD's, not many Christian have covered the Topic of Freemasonry the Jesuits and other secret Societies , He also has a on-line radio station now, for those who have the time.

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
William Randolph Hearst
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I used to work with a man who was a mason.  He tried to   get me to join.  I said I couldn't as I was a Christian.  he said that didn't matter as he had a lot of Christians in his lodge including a bishop.  Another who I worked more closely with was much more secretive and never mentioned his lodge, except when he was going to a meeting.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Christians who are also Masons, if they are true Christians and not just secular Christians, suffer from a lack of knowledge. Not knowing the Word, not learning how we are called to live, not receiving or perhaps not accepting being discipled, leaves baby Christians as babes in the faith. They don't know enough to see the incompatibility of belonging to a secret society, such as the Masons, and living a life pleasing to God.

From my limited experience, it seems most Masons who call themselves Christians are only secular (some would call them cultural) Christians and not actual born again in Christ true Christians. They, like all other lost souls, are in need of hearing the Gospel and becoming actual Christians.

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I have a relative who has spent a few years in the Florida area of the states, he said that People were much more open about involvement in Masonry, and it seemed to be a more socially open thing than it is in the UK.

What about The SMOM,  an elite Roman Catholic Knighthood headed by a Grandmaster who works at the behest of the Pope, connection? ie "puff Graham", the 'puff Graham' has a sort of double meaning, it is a reference to the way the old flash on the cameras would go off with a flash and i think a noise and a puff of smoke, and at the same time 'Graham' in this case would be 'puffed up' by the media. Those two sites above are just to cross reference who it was who promoted Grahams ministry and got him into the public eye. I think a general tactic of warfare would be to put your man in the enemy camp 'puff him' for a while then once he has a following he can lead them back to Rome. I know the RC Orders had resident closet Catholics left in the church of England in order to work from within it to take it back to Rome, they run things such as 'the Oxford Movement' I Think the Jesuit Order, which is also a military order, has done more damage to the USA than any other single organisation.

The RC Military Order owned Media would never have promoted Graham if they never trusted that they could rely on him to help their cause.

Another Guy who covers the Jesuits and Rome and it's warfare on the US and the Church is http://www.spirituallysmart.com/ . He is Christian but Doctrinally a bit off. This site is good for the political side of Rome. Not as polished as C Pinto.

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On 4/24/2012 at 9:13 AM, John81 said:


No doubt some were saved over the years through Billy Graham's preaching, yet how many had their growth in Christ stunted by being shuttled into unsound churches and false religions? How many were not saved through a Billy Graham event yet went forward to learn more only to be pointed to a church which didn't preach the Gospel?

Any time we trust in our own efforts there will be trouble and work for the Lord will be hampered. While it may seem right and smart to yoke with the RCC and wayward churches in order to preach to more people, what is truly right and smart is obeying the Word of God and trusting Him with the results.

The religious rudiment that Billy Graham uses may very well be in an IFB church;  the commitment to follow Christ.

A commitment is like a promise;  and thus a yoke of bondage.  The irony is that after preaching the gospel, Billy Graham gave the opposite of the gospel message at the altar call by saying, "If you are not sure you are saved, come forward & make a commitment to follow Christ."

Granted, just by hearing the gospel & believing in Him is how any one is saved, but the altar call denies that salvation has been given by faith in Jesus Christ without works & also promotes finishing by the flesh what was already begun with the Spirit when they had believed in Him.

Obeying God's words is by believing in Him & trusting Him at His word, but I do wonder how many IFB members see nothing wrong with the believer's commitment to follow Christ as if that is how we can follow Him is by the power of our flesh & will in keeping that commitment to follow Him when we can only follow the Son of God by faith in Him & all His promises to us?

Those that see nothing wrong with it, must ask how they can claim this part of scripture as their testimony of Him?

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

It is prevalent on how many believers can see that doing circumcision which is the smallest letter of the law, can put a saved believer under the whole law, and yet when it comes to making promises to God which is the biggest letter of the law, they somehow exempt themselves as if they are not under the law by using God's grace to keep on trying to keep that commitment or promise that only God can keep & finish,   They do not fear God in that respect.

They continue to make assumptions not supported by scripture whereas scripture reproves their assumptions like.. thinking that God will help them keep their promises or their commitment to follow Him.  No, His words says He will not.

Numbers 30:2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

It is a man's promise;  therefore he has to do it.  God has made His promises, and He keeps them. 

Here is something else that a commitment or a promise to follow Christ does.

Ecclesiastes 5:4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

By that commitment or promise is the knowledge of sin.

That believer's commitment or promise is a work of the believer's hands;  not God's hands.

That is why it is simply written that the just shall live by faith... faith in the Son of God & all His promises to us.

Why promise that which is under His New Covenant to keep & finish since He will finish His work in us & He will help us to follow Him as His disciples.

And so where is that faith in light of that believer's commitment to follow Him?  Nowhere because that keeping that commitment to follow Christ denies faith in Him & His promise to us as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Like it or not, it is an ego trip to see how many a person can lead a sinner or an unsure but yet saved believer to make a commitment to follow Christ, and Billy Graham will always have a problem getting off of that pedestal that people put him on for leading so many to the Lord as if he was the one that did  it; which he did not.  In fact, he led them away from their rest in Jesus Christ by taking away the assurance of their salvation by faith in Him to keeping that commitment to follow Christ to gain that assurance of their salvation.

Granted, Billy Graham is ecumenical in nature, but that rudiment of making a commitment to follow Christ is the false prophet that is gathering grapes of thorns & figs of thistles as it is something that can be found in other religions of the world where many wise men in the flesh, many might, and many nobles are called to for the praises of men.

Having believed in Jesus Christ as our Saviour is how we were saved & trusting Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd is how any believer can follow Him as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

It is no wonder why Billy Graham doubts that he would be received by Jesus Christ because he has said that he was not always a good christian, and thus he can never have that assurance of salvation as long as he thinks keeping that commitment to follow Christ is how he or any one else is saved by thus laboring in unbelief & coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ for not ceasing from his own work as God did from His.  Hebrews 4:1-3,9-16

May every IFB member that has spoken of that commitment to follow Christ, cease to speak of it, asking Jesus Christ to set them free to follow Him by faith for He is our Good Shepherd & not just our Saviour.  May we be witnesses of the Son by declaring our faith in Him for that is the exalted testimony we are to have as His disciples.

A believer's commitment glorifies himself in receiving the praise of men for the work of their hands in keeping it.

A believer's faith in Jesus Christ to help him to follow Him glorifies Jesus Christ as we are the work of His hands.

There is no way to compromise the two because a believer's commitment to follow Christ voids faith in Him to do it.

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On 6/26/2016 at 3:51 PM, Golgotha said:

Granted, just by hearing the gospel & believing in Him is how any one is saved, but the altar call denies that salvation has been given by faith in Jesus Christ without works & also promotes finishing by the flesh what was already begun with the Spirit when they had believed in Him.

Obeying God's words is by believing in Him & trusting Him at His word, but I do wonder how many IFB members see nothing wrong with the believer's commitment to follow Christ as if that is how we can follow Him is by the power of our flesh & will in keeping that commitment to follow Him when we can only follow the Son of God by faith in Him & all His promises to us?

Those that see nothing wrong with it, must ask how they can claim this part of scripture as their testimony o

f Him?

I see the altar call as a false teaching, it undermines the Holy Spirit's power to convict and convince. I  do know of some in my own family who were saved at the early Graham rallies in the UK who went on to be fine Baptists till the end of their lives.  I also know of some who went into the charismatic movement..  While it would seem that the Graham influence was negative, 

Lu 15:7  I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
Lu 15:10  Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth
.

That is the heart fo the gospel, repentance.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I would say that Graham has done more harm than good to the cause of Christ.  He's quoted as preaching a false gospel from his earliest days, the world loves him, and when uniting with Catholics, when at his crusades, Catholics came forward to be saved, they would be directed back to the Whore of Revelations 17.  How evil and wicked and deceptive is that?

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Billy Graham has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through giving ones life to Christ and trusting in Him alone for salvation. And thus Graham has never believed that Baptism has something to do with salvation.

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 6:03 PM, swathdiver said:

I would say that Graham has done more harm than good to the cause of Christ.  He's quoted as preaching a false gospel from his earliest days, the world loves him, and when uniting with Catholics, when at his crusades, Catholics came forward to be saved, they would be directed back to the Whore of Revelations 17.  How evil and wicked and deceptive is that?

Totally false. Graham has never preached a false gospel as he has always preached in his Crusades the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through giving ones life to Christ and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2016 at 0:06 PM, heartstrings said:

Based on what I've seen/heard him say, he was a deceiver. What about his son, Franklin? Anyone know much about him?

Totally false. Graham is not and has never been a deceiver as he has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation. Every time I have heard Graham preach he always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

"I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God. But I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me."
-Billy Graham, quoted by Briton Hadden & H. R. Luce, Time, Vol. 78, Time Inc., 1961, p. 612 

 

"I would be for abortion in violent rape... I take the same stand that the pope takes, I'm against abortion, except in cases of rape..."
-Billy Graham, interviewed on Larry King Live, January, 1988, retrieved July 15, 2013, 

 

"Since his election, Pope John Paul II has emerged as the greatest religious leader of the modern world, and one of the greatest moral and spiritual leaders of this century... The Pope came [to America] as a statesman and a pastor, but I believe he also sees himself coming as an evangelist, forthrightly urging those who have perhaps given little thought to spiritual matters to realize the truth of the Christian message and commit their lives to Christ... The Pope sought to speak to the spiritual hunger of our age in the same way Christians throughout the centuries have spoken to the spiritual yearnings of every age—by pointing people to Christ... Also, in countless ways many evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics are discovering they share a common bond through their mutual commitment to the Christian faith... Recently I learned that the word 'pontiff,' (a title by which the Pope is often known) comes from the Latin words which originally meant 'bridge builder.' During his visit to America, Pope John Paul II was indeed a bridge builder, and that is something our divided world desperately needs. In a world which often seems to have lost its way, his voice will continue to remind us of our responsibilities to each other—and to God."
-Billy Graham, "The Pilgrim Pope: A Builder of Bridges," Saturday Evening Post, January-February, 1980

"I think that hell essentially is separation from God forever. And that is the worst hell that I can think of. But I think people have a hard time believing God is going to allow people to burn in literal fire forever. I think the fire that is mentioned in the Bible is a burning thirst for God that can never be quenched."
-Orlando Sentinel, Florida, Apr 10, 1983 
 

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Frost: "Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?" 

Graham: "The tremendous discipline that they have in Islam in the sense that there's a judgment if you do wrong, and there's a tremendous hope that people have that you are Islamic. Suppose you die on the battlefield fighting for Islam, the promises they give you for the first thousand years would make any young man say, 'Well, I think that's what I'd like to have.' They have so many things. And I think Islam is misunderstood too, because Mohammed had a great respect for Jesus, and he called Jesus the greatest of the prophets except himself. And I think that we're closer to Islam than we really think we are."

-Billy Graham, Interview with David Frost, "Talking with David Frost: Reverend Billy Graham," David Paradine Television, Feb 18, 1997

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21 hours ago, heartstrings said:
Frost: "Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?" 

Graham: "The tremendous discipline that they have in Islam in the sense that there's a judgment if you do wrong, and there's a tremendous hope that people have that you are Islamic. Suppose you die on the battlefield fighting for Islam, the promises they give you for the first thousand years would make any young man say, 'Well, I think that's what I'd like to have.' They have so many things. And I think Islam is misunderstood too, because Mohammed had a great respect for Jesus, and he called Jesus the greatest of the prophets except himself. And I think that we're closer to Islam than we really think we are."

-Billy Graham, Interview with David Frost, "Talking with David Frost: Reverend Billy Graham," David Paradine Television, Feb 18, 1997

Why would you believe those articles about Graham that are nothing but false and full of lies? Graham does not really believe that stuff that he stated because of the fact that he has always preached the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only by giving ones life to Christ. Nobody in their right mind believes that Graham believes the stuff he stated in those articles.

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So Graham doesn't believe the stuff he says he believes? That would then make him a liar...

Again, tone down the rhetoric. Asking why someone believes what they have read (that are word-for-word what the person stated) is fine.  Asserting that only crazy people believe that what someone says they believe is actually what they believe isn't going to fly here.  Second thread in which you've had to be told tone it down.

 

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4 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

So Graham doesn't believe the stuff he says he believes? That would then make him a liar...

Again, tone down the rhetoric. Asking why someone believes what they have read (that are word-for-word what the person stated) is fine.  Asserting that only crazy people believe that what someone says they believe is actually what they believe isn't going to fly here.  Second thread in which you've had to be told tone it down.

 

If Graham has preached the biblical doctrine of salvation in his Crusades then logically that means that he does not believe that stuff he stated in those articles.

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Just now, John Yurich said:

If Graham has preached the biblical doctrine of salvation in his Crusades then logically that means that he does not believe that stuff he stated in those articles.

That is then even more egregious. Because if he is preaching salvation and then lying about other things he supposedly believes, then logically folks who are lost will reject salvation because Graham is a liar about everything else he believes.

Your logic falls apart simply on the basis that we have no choice but to believe what a person says when they assert their belief in something. You do not know his mind, so you cannot definitively state that he doesn't believe what he says he believes. It is circular reasoning at best which has no logically sound outcome.

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19 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

That is then even more egregious. Because if he is preaching salvation and then lying about other things he supposedly believes, then logically folks who are lost will reject salvation because Graham is a liar about everything else he believes.

Your logic falls apart simply on the basis that we have no choice but to believe what a person says when they assert their belief in something. You do not know his mind, so you cannot definitively state that he doesn't believe what he says he believes. It is circular reasoning at best which has no logically sound outcome.

Well the fact is that millions have become saved over the years in the Billy Graham Crusades. When Graham made  those statements in  those articles he must have been suffering from some kind of mental problems to make statements that he would never have made during his Crusades. That is why I don't believe those articles about Graham.

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1 John 4:1-5

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

 

My mouth may profess "Jesus". I may even use a King James Bible, but what does my "spirit" really say? What do I really say between the lines while I promote Catholicism. "Universal salvation" and "New Age" stuff?  If anyone was saved, at a Billy Graham crusade, it was because they heard some of the Word of God. The Bible says "my word shall not return unto me void"(paraphrased). And God even used Balaam to a point. Billy Graham has done a lot of good things, some of which I admire greatly. So who am I to judge? But when we hear something that isn't doctrinal, we are to take notice and beware because there are wolves out there which look every bit like a sheep. It's easier if I put zero confidence in Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon or any other man, even my own pastor, even MYSELF.  We're all fallible. 

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7 hours ago, heartstrings said:

1 John 4:1-5

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

 

My mouth may profess "Jesus". I may even use a King James Bible, but what does my "spirit" really say? What do I really say between the lines while I promote Catholicism. "Universal salvation" and "New Age" stuff?  If anyone was saved, at a Billy Graham crusade, it was because they heard some of the Word of God. The Bible says "my word shall not return unto me void"(paraphrased). And God even used Balaam to a point. Billy Graham has done a lot of good things, some of which I admire greatly. So who am I to judge? But when we hear something that isn't doctrinal, we are to take notice and beware because there are wolves out there which look every bit like a sheep. It's easier if I put zero confidence in Billy Graham, Charles Spurgeon or any other man, even my own pastor, even MYSELF.  We're all fallible. 

Well put sir

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14 hours ago, HappyChristian said:

Billy Graham, over the years, went his own way rather than sticking completely with scripture. He was warned by a number of men who saw the trail he was beginning to take. He chose to ignore the warnings of men like Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Bob Jones I, Dr. Charles Woodbridge, etc (and I'm not lifting any of those men up - just naming a few names of well-known men who rebuked Graham early on).  As early as 1957 Graham had modernists (120 of them) on his crusade committee.

While there have been people saved via Graham's ministry, that does not excuse his disobedience - any more than some fruit in ministry excuses ANY sin on the part of ANYone. 

We can choose to believe or not believe whatever we want (although it is illogical to disbelieve that what someone claims to believe - and teaches it over the years - is what they actually believe). But the Bible tells us "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Graham's mouth spoke what was in his heart, and a good bit of it was heresy.

Graham must have been suffering from some kind of mental disorder in order for him to make those statements that he did not make during his Crusades. That is the only logical explanation as to why he made those statements when he preached the biblical doctrine of salvation.

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4 hours ago, John Yurich said:

Graham must have been suffering from some kind of mental disorder in order for him to make those statements that he did not make during his Crusades. That is the only logical explanation as to why he made those statements when he preached the biblical doctrine of salvation.

So you would rather have him being mentally unstable?

That doesn't make his preaching any more reliable.

How can we tell when he was in his right mind?

The plsin fact is that in many different fora over a period of years he made statements such as those recorded above, statements that are cleatly inconsistent with biblical salvation.

Unless you can provide proof of this mental instability that you suggest, we are forced to accept that his belief was unbiblical.

Do you have any sources that question his mental faculty over the years in support of your assertion?

By the way, the fact of people saved under his preaching is not disputed, but they would not be the only people saved in spite of, not because of, what a preacher actually believed.

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On 4/24/2017 at 0:50 PM, John Yurich said:

Totally false. Graham has never preached a false gospel as he has always preached in his Crusades the biblical doctrine of salvation that salvation comes only through giving ones life to Christ and trusting in Him alone for salvation.

You have a lot to learn about Mr. Graham sir.  Even in the 1930s we have quotes from him preaching an accursed gospel.

Having dinner with Graham, President G. W. Bush asked him a question about Christianity and he said some people were born Christians.

His fruit is rotten.  Franklin is worse, not better.

Franklin was dumb enough to foot the bill for a hospital in North Korea, complete with all the latest medical technology and backup generators.  Anyone with an ounce of brains knows that this will only be used for Party Members and for propaganda purposes, such as when they hit Graham up for more money or when Michael Moore comes to town for a documentary on national healthcare.  

 

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11 hours ago, John Yurich said:

Graham must have been suffering from some kind of mental disorder in order for him to make those statements that he did not make during his Crusades. That is the only logical explanation as to why he made those statements when he preached the biblical doctrine of salvation.

What he was "suffering from" is sin. Period. There are many people who teach/preach salvation and yet have bad doctrine in other areas. Sin. Not a mental disorder.

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There are 2 things that bother me most about Billy Graham's crusades of the past.
#1. He made an AGREEMENT with the Catholic church to turn over to them (give them their names) any catholic person who came forward during his style of altar call at any of his crusades. He was so well liked by the priests that they gave him an honorary degree (Belmont Abbey College - 1967). Now if a certain person does not WANT to believe this, look up the factual evidence of it.

#2. And this (to me) is MORE troublesome, because I heard this same rhetoric in many Baptist churches over the years... HIS version of "salvation" was "ask Jesus into your heart". Is that the gospel? No. The ACTUAL gospel is found in 1 Cor.15:1-4. It is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. That Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS!!! (underline and bold emphasis placed there by me)

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

What is required of us? BELIEF/faith. (John 3:16-18, Rom.10:9-10, Eph.2:8-9, John 14:6,  et al). What do we BELIEVE??? The gospel!!! That Christ died for our sins, was  buried, was resurrected 3 days later.
We BELIEVE in our hearts, we CONFESS with our mouths, but no-where does the gospel state "ask Jesus into your heart"... that is NOT scriptural. That IS another gospel.  That is 'easy-believism' with the person often times having never even heard the actual GOSPEL, nor comprehending that Jesus died for their sins (and was buried and resurrected).!

Paul continues on in that chapter (1 Cor.15) to expound on GRACE, he also expounds on the resurrection that WE (as believers) will also have at the rapture, with a description of the rapture in that chapter as well.

Any "gospel" that does NOT present the death (that Jesus died for our sins), the burial, and the resurrection is a FALSE GOSPEL. Paul warns us that there are some who would "pervert the gospel of Christ". (Gal.1:7) He further gives more warning in verses 8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I don't care whom the pastor is... Billy Graham or any other... whomever is preaching any gospel in the age of grace OTHER than the gospel as set forth in 1 Cor.15:1-4, it is a FALSE GOSPEL. 

 


 

Edited by Ronda
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