A Personal Burden on Sermon Length

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Recently I encountered an article on the matter of sermon length that stirred my heart yet again on the matter.  Often in the church culture of the U.S.A. (I do NOT speak about the church culture of other countries, since I simply do not know about them), it is argued the sermon length MUST be somewhat short, being no longer than 25-30 minutes, and rarely reaching 45 minutes.  Indeed, arguments are presented such like -- if a preacher/teacher cannot say what has to be said in that amount of time, then . . . (something that implies that he is a failure as a preacher/teacher of God's Word).  Indeed, arguments are presented against longer messages because of "human attention span issues" and "lack of preaching ability/eloquence issues."

Yet this raises some questions within my heart --

1.  Why when such arguments for shorter preaching/teaching length are given is there very, very, very rarely (if ever) any Biblical evidence given for the arguments?

2.  What is the only and final authority for how the church ministry should proceed, including the preaching/teaching length?  (Obviously, God's Holy Word, right?)

3.  What does God's Holy Word indicate concerning the desire of God's people for more and more of God's truth or for less and less of God's truth?

4.  What does God's Holy Word provide as instruction, counsel, or example concerning the preaching/teaching length of a Bible message?

5.  What does God's Holy Word indicate concerning the importance of receiving, hungering for, and pursuing after the truth and teaching of God's Word?

6.  What does God's Holy Word indicate concerning the lack of attention, interest, and endurance for the truth and teaching of God's Word?

7.  Why do we have a church culture that does not seem to want to ask (or, to study Scripture to answer with genuine Biblical evidence) such questions?

Now, I myself DO have a fairly strong viewpoint concerning the matter.  However, I do NOT know that I will comment overmuch more in this thread (because of the possible time requirement, and because I am already involved in a number of other thread discussion commitments that I am presently failing because of time restrictions).  Yet I DID desire to bring forward this burden and these questions in order to provoke some Biblical consideration of the matter.

Thank you for allowing me to express my burden of heart.
Pastor Scott Markle

[No Nicolaitans]

Bro. Scott,

While I understand your questions and concerns...and I wholeheartedly agree with them...I've reached the point (whether right or not) that humans are humans. In the day in which we live, man (in general) has a very short attention span. That certainly doesn't mean that it's right or acceptable...that's just the facts. This is aided and abetted by social media, news, and so forth. Mankind (in America) wants what they want, and they want it now. As such, I think (whether correct or not) that as preachers, we have to do what we can with what we can. We can't force people to accept a 45 minute to an hour+ long sermon. There are still people (like me) who will take all that they can get; however, "most" people don't want it...and we can't make them want it. That's between them and the Lord.

With that said, we have to work with what we're given. As most people are willing to accept a 30 minute sermon, then sadly, I feel that we need to give that to them in hope that we can give them the most within that time-frame; at the same time, I don't think this is in keeping with the Biblical model. My word...we have the example of Paul preaching so long that one man fell asleep! I see no "time-frame" in the Bible as to how long a sermon should be, yet man is man.

I put no time-restraints on my sermons personally; however, I try to keep in mind that most people have no desire to hear God's word expounded beyond 30 minutes...if that long. There are a few who do...but not many. When I preach, it often lasts anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes...depending on how things go during the delivery. I make no apologies if a 45 minute sermon is delivered. Yet, I rarely go that long.

Those are just my personal thoughts and opinions. They may not be right. I just try to give what I can with the understanding that "most people" will lose interest after a certain amount of time. I don't like it personally or agree with it; those are just the facts of what I've accepted in the day in which we live. We live in a worldly society...both secular and Christian...and most people...including "Christians" don't have time for preaching.

Forgive me if anything I've said is wrong or unbecoming. I'm just giving information as I see it in the area in which I live.

[Invicta]

56 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Bro. Scott,

While I understand your questions and concerns...and I wholeheartedly agree with them...I've reached the point (whether right or not) that humans are humans. In the day in which we live, man (in general) has a very short attention span. That certainly doesn't mean that it's right or acceptable...that's just the facts. This is aided and abetted by social media, news, and so forth. Mankind (in America) wants what they want, and they want it now. As such, I think (whether correct or not) that as preachers, we have to do what we can with what we can. We can't force people to accept a 45 minute to an hour+ long sermon. There are still people (like me) who will take all that they can get; however, "most" people don't want it...and we can't make them want it. That's between them and the Lord.

With that said, we have to work with what we're given. As most people are willing to accept a 30 minute sermon, then sadly, I feel that we need to give that to them in hope that we can give them the most within that time-frame; at the same time, I don't think this is in keeping with the Biblical model. My word...we have the example of Paul preaching so long that one man fell asleep! I see no "time-frame" in the Bible as to how long a sermon should be, yet man is man.

I put no time-restraints on my sermons personally; however, I try to keep in mind that most people have no desire to hear God's word expounded beyond 30 minutes...if that long. There are a few who do...but not many. When I preach, it often lasts anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes...depending on how things go during the delivery. I make no apologies if a 45 minute sermon is delivered. Yet, I rarely go that long.

Those are just my personal thoughts and opinions. They may not be right. I just try to give what I can with the understanding that "most people" will lose interest after a certain amount of time. I don't like it personally or agree with it; those are just the facts of what I've accepted in the day in which we live. ve live in a worldly society...both secular and Christian...and most people...including "Christians" don't have time for preaching.

Forgive me if anything I've said is wrong or unbecoming. I'm just giving information as I see it in the area in which I live.

There is another thing to consider and that is the age of some members and the comfort or lack of it of the seats. We have some members who are in their late 80s and some in heir 90s. I find our chairs uncomfortable and I can see some of these members fidgeting from one buttock to the other after the service has been going for about an hour.

@NN.  This has been typed on the new OS

[Invicta]

41 minutes ago, Invicta said:

There is another thing to consider and that is the age of some members and the comfort or lack of it of the seats. We have some members who are in their late 80s and some in heir 90s. I find our chairs uncomfortable and I can see some of these members fidgeting from one buttock to the other after the service has been going for about an hour.

@NN.  This has been typed on the new OS

Our church secretary thinks we can get some more comfortable chairs for less than we can get for our current chairs, although I can't see how.  Ours have been in use since the church was rebuilt in about 1963.  I suppose we don't want them too comfortable or people will fall asleep.   We have some old wooden chapel chairs from our old building which are very uncomfortable and the legs are uneven but one of our members who is opening a cafe/deli wants to buy them.  I can't think why, but they seem to be the in thing. When I do the sound/recording I use a computer chair which is very comfortable.

[Jim_Alaska]

It has been my observation that sermon length is many times limited by other "stuff" that goes on before it. Things like announcements prayer request and praise, special music and any other number of things that go into the entire service. I, personally would prefer shorter time for this part of the service and longer time for the actual message.

People are people and each one is different in likes and dislikes. I tend to think that we can go overboard in either direction i.e. sermon too long or sermon too short. My personal preference as a preacher is to time the sermon in accordance with The Holy Spirit's leading in subject matter as well as exposition.

Each church and its members are different, some need fairly short and "to the point" messages and some need longer messages for various reasons. This is where the leadership of the Holy Spirit comes in. He knows the needs of each church and each member. I could give specific examples, but am limited for time right now, I think you can read between the lines and fill in your own blanks.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Just my input on a few things mentioned by various ones through the course (heretofore) of this thread.

1) The 'extras' shouldn't (and don't need to) limit sermon length. If the sermon is 32 minutes and the 'extras' are 90 minutes or 7 minutes it just changes your departure time --- so what?

2) People don't complain about a 2 hour sporting event or a 90 minute movie but complain about a 75 minute church service.

3) I've seen people who had to stand through a service, get up and move to the back for a while during the service, bring a cushion for the seat or even bring their own seat, or make other accommodation for health limitations, etc.

4) I don't know how people justify the "30 minute or less rule of thumb" for a message from God's Word. Public school class instruction is set up on a 40-45 minute guideline. I teach a state class that is structured on a 50 minute instruction followed by 10 minute break guideline for a total of 8 hours of instruction that day. I also hold a secular seminar that is structured 50/10 for 4 hours.

5) Truth be told, they probably don't spend much time reading their Bible or listening to preaching at other times either ----- but, have a 2-3 hour sing and they'll be there for the whole thing!!

[DaveW]

30 minutes ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Just my input on a few things mentioned by various ones through the course (heretofore) of this thread.

1) The 'extras' shouldn't (and don't need to) limit sermon length. If the sermon is 32 minutes and the 'extras' are 90 minutes or 7 minutes it just changes your departure time --- so what?

2) People don't complain about a 2 hour sporting event or a 90 minute movie but complain about a 75 minute church service.

3) I've seen people who had to stand through a service, get up and move to the back for a while during the service, bring a cushion for the seat or even bring their own seat, or make other accommodation for health limitations, etc.

4) I don't know how people justify the "30 minute or less rule of thumb" for a message from God's Word. Public school class instruction is set up on a 40-45 minute guideline. I teach a state class that is structured on a 50 minute instruction followed by 10 minute break guideline for a total of 8 hours of instruction that day. I also hold a secular seminar that is structured 50/10 for 4 hours.

5) Truth be told, they probably don't spend much time reading their Bible or listening to preaching at other times either ----- but, have a 2-3 hour sing and they'll be there for the whole thing!!

I was going to mention the same sorts of things - people will spend waaaaaaay more than an hour at various other events.

 

The only thing is that sometimes you have venue restrictions. If you have a hired hall, you may only have a limited time to set up, have the service, and then break everything down again. So in such cases we had less singing and handed out a flyer for the notices and announcements, but we still had to put a time limit on the preaching. However, there were times that the Lord was working and we ended up with the security waiting for us to clear out.

 

For the last night of our recent meetings the venue we hired had a close time limit for the night - I just asked everyone - visitors and guests included - to jump in and help us pack up and we all moved back to our church building for some fellowship afterwards - and the last people left at about 1.30 am. But we also had plenty of time for our evening services - 3  1/2 hours from our start time to lock up. We had to hire a hall because we were expecting over 200 and our building is only "registered" for 110.

 

Having said all of that (and agreed with OFP) I have sat through sermons that were too long at 15 mins, and also been in sermons that did not seem long but actually went for well over an hour of preaching. One Sunday night we had a visiting missionary (from Japan) and when asked about the time, I said to him as I always say "Preach until the Lord tells you to stop".

He said he would "see how the people were going after the presentation, and then decide how long to preach. He finally sat down after giving his presentation and then preaching a full on message and it was near to 8.30pm - our evening service starts at 6pm and we normally only have a few songs, then straight into the preaching for about 45 mins. That means he preached for well over an hour after giving a full presentation of the work in Japan. But it only seemed like a few minutes, and people did not leave that night until after 10pm.

Sometimes 15 mins is too long, sometimes an hour and half is not long enough.

I remember being told when I was training "Get up, speak up, and shut up". 

I have preached on occasion for little more than 20 mins, but what the Lord wanted me to say was said, and people responded. No need to keep going when the Lord has done His work.

Mostly however I preach for around 35 mins. The people here are generous, and if I go for 45 or 50 mins there is little fussing. I have only rarely preached longer than 50 mins.

[...]

8 hours ago, Jim_Alaska said:

It has been my observation that sermon length is many times limited by other "stuff" that goes on before it. Things like announcements prayer request and praise, special music and any other number of things that go into the entire service. I, personally would prefer shorter time for this part of the service and longer time for the actual message.

Can I get an amen on this?

5 hours ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

2) People don't complain about a 2 hour sporting event or a 90 minute movie but complain about a 75 minute church service.

...and another on this?

5 hours ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

5) Truth be told, they probably don't spend much time reading their Bible or listening to preaching at other times either ----- but, have a 2-3 hour sing and they'll be there for the whole thing!!

...and yet another on this?

I think that this lack of desire or tolerance for lengthy preaching is a serious problem.  Too many people treat church as if it is an obligatory appointment to be kept as opposed to an opportunity to be submerged in God's word and fellowship.  I much prefer long sermons.  Not only do I enjoy them, but I need them.  When I go to church, I feel an insatiable thirst for the things of God and I am always frustrated when I only hear a short sermon that is over before it seems like it even began.

I have not searched the scriptures on the subject, but my guess would be that longer bouts of preaching would be supported over shorter.  I would have a difficult time believing that Jesus only preached for 30 minutes, or even an hour, after 5000 people assembled before Him.  I would think that the first Christians would have been like thirsty horses at a watering hole when hearing Christ or the disciples preach.  Perhaps our culture is so overly saturated with the ability to hear sermons from a multitude of preachers at any time of the day or night (due to technology and recordings), that so many Christians have lost their thirst and their tolerance for preaching at length. 

There is probably a certain amount of complacency involved as well.  Welcome a homeless person, who has not eaten in a week, into your home and they will be grateful for dry chicken and burned toast.  Cater to them for a month and they may begin to complain that their eggs are too runny or that you used too much spice in the pumpkin bread.  

Many people forget that they are able to freely and safely assemble to read, hear and discuss the word of the almighty God of creation and that He joins us in the process (Matthew 18:20).  There are so very many places in the world where people risk their families, friends, jobs and even their very lives, for even admitting to be Christian or owning a Bible, much less assembling for services.  And we complain when we get too much of it.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by Brother Stafford

[Invicta]

Exactly.  

In this country there have been long periods of sever persecutio under the Catholics and under Queen Elizabeth 1st and James 1st. Before 1840 the dissenters as they were known were exiled to Holland. Their services usually started at 8.00am and continued till they finished, often mid day or later.  A few miles from here are Perry Woods, the hill there is the highest point in the county. On top of the hill is a structure called the pulpi and although I have never managed to find any written history of it I was told by a christian who was born in the area that in times of persecution services were held there and the worhippers could see soldiers approaching from any direction.  It is also recorded that in one place worshippers met in a house and the preacher preached from outside through a hole in the wall so if any intruders came he could disappear quickly and there would be no trace inside.

In France any preacher who was apprehended would be sentenced to have his body broken on the wheel and then hung.  Any male worshippers would be sent to the galleys for life and women, in the South, imprisoned in the Tower of Constance. There was a place in the wilds of the South of France where worhippers met known as the Desert.  There is still a service there once a year, I believe.

 

 

[Musician4God1611]

I believe that part of the reason for the shorter and shorter messages is that many preachers have nothing to say. I've heard the confession of many pastors that they either always re-use sermons, they get them from commentaries, or better yet from off the internet. Gone are the days when a preacher would spend hours on their face before God, seeking his face. The reason that Christians can't put up with a long sermon is because the average preacher doesn't take preaching seriously.

When God meets, the time goes by so quickly. This past Wednesday I preached for an hour and five minutes (I was calibrating our new sound system which is why I know the time), but none of the people really noticed the time. God met with us and the altar was full. The invitation time was about as long as the average church's sermon is. Then, after all that, we had our normal prayer meeting time. In all, Wednesday evening services were about 2 hours, but no one complained. We came to meet with God. That being said, I spent hours upon hours in prayer and study getting myself prepared. The people won't prepare their hearts to meet God because they are following the example of the preachers.

[Genevanpreacher]

I have a little 'funny' to insert here -

Since my sermons have been a bit lengthy in the past - my wife threatened to buy a t-shirt with "I survived my husbands sermon" on it - jokingly of course...

I think. 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Genevanpreacher

[Invicta]

Yesterday evening we had the first Sunday evening service on 25tf December since we first went to the church in late 1994.  I had always said it was the Lord's day and we should hve a servce as normal but our previous secretay said once "You will be the only one there."   This year a retired Baptist pastor wjo joined us fairly recently and said "I think the Lord's day should take precendece." Our leaders decided to have a sandwich meal before the service.  Our secretary said he was planning it to all fit in an hour. .  Wishful thinking, I thought.  After the meal the previous mentioned pastor gave a presentation on how the hymn Amazing Grace came to be written and taught us two new carols.  Then one of our deacons gave a message on the 40 names Jesus which are given in the bible and what they mean to us.  It must have taken over two hours altogeher and after clearing up we left just after 9.00 pm

Edited December 27, 2016 by Invicta
precious should have read previous mentioned

[Pastor Scott Markle]

1.  According to Hebrews 10:24-25, what is the purpose for assembling together as believers in a church service?

Hebrews 10:24-25 -- "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

2.  According to Ephesians 4:11-12, what is the responsibility of church leadership within the ministry of the church?

Ephesians 4:11-12 -- "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

3.  According to Ephesians 4:13-14, what is the ultimate objective for believers' exhorting one another and for church leaderships' perfecting the saints?

Ephesians 4:13-14 -- "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive."

4.  According to Ephesians 4:15, what is the means by which believers may exhort one another and by which church leadership may perfect the saints?

Ephesians 4:15 -- "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ."

5.  According to Hebrews 10:24-25, how much should we engage in assembling together as believers for such ministry activities?

Hebrews 10:24-25 -- "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

(Note: Please consider the authority which has been employed for this presentation.)

Edited December 27, 2016 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Ukulelemike]

I have given thought to sermon/service length before-my old preacher used to boast, jokingly, on how he was always done by noon-and he was. Sometimes it was fine, but occasionally I could tell he had more, but would just stop due to the time, and never finish, which I thought was a shame, as clearly there was more to be said.  I tried to follow that thinking when I became a pastor, but soon left it, as I couldn't get anything done. So now I just prepare what I believe is to be preached, and go til either I am finished, or, if I know I have lost them, I will wrap up-no sense talking to the walls when the thousand-yard stare sets in.

[Jim_Alaska]

Brother Scott,

Thank you for these fine examples of what our churches and leaders are for and why it is so important for our members to be properly and biblically grounded in the "faith once delivered to the saints". Thank you also for the very relevant questions you provided at the end of each reference.

Given this list of examples it becomes very clear that mini-sermons, sermonettes, as well as light and fluffy fifteen minute messages that lightly skim the surface of vital truths will never properly strengthen and ground church members.

I thank God for Godly men in positions of leadership that understand the fullness of their calling and responsibility to God as His under-shepherd. 

Well done.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Jim_Alaska
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