Genevanpreacher

Except Alan's lie of "the Lord said...". Alan makes up a new doctrine, and yes, WW, anything taught IS doctrine, and Alan is perverted in his Bible study just enough to prove the masses reading this thread that we must all be fools.

You have to be the vainest minister I have ever come across Alan. You can't answer those verses I asked about can you? I added nothing to God's word, but you have added multiple imaginations to support your very weak opinion of what you interpret that the scriptures mean. How dare you be so firmly hard shell about saying that "Nothing" I said was worthy of studying!!! I DO NOT reject, and HAVE NOT rejected in ANY shape or form, neither of your 2 references named above!! AND to say this - "Genevanpreacher wants the scriptures to say the words of the prophets and the words of the Lord Jesus the way he wants them to say them or he will not believe. In doing so, he twists the words of scripture to take away their meaning and doctrine. I prefer to believe the scriptures as they are written and not how I think they should be written" is EXACTLY what you have done!! Wow! You have TOTALLY gone off the deep end Alan, you might as well hang up your KJV and move on to something worthy of such nonsense as to lie about me, when there is PLENTY of questions you have not answered, and PLENTY of verses you have NO answer for, which totally refute your imaginations about Jesus Christ telling us that Paul is the 12th apostle, which he NEVER did, and then claim YOU have this secret code of understanding the real meaning behind the actual words of the God of all creation that he had written down for all of us to read directly. I refute your belief as nonsense.

And, Alan, the Lord Jesus did open their minds before he left, to understand the scriptures - which included Psalms - "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures" Don't you think this is HOW they got the idea to replace Judas? Open your eyes a leeeetle wider.

And Alan, just where am I twisting the Lord Jesus' words?? Show me wrong. The apostle's had the Holy Spirit. The same Holy Spirit that would guide the disciples, called apostle's, into all truth - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." (John 16:13-15)

Alan, if you would read a little in more detail, you would see that I am not arguing that Paul was not an apostle, but I do say he was not, nor ever shall be, one of the 12 disciples, which the Lord Jesus called 'apostles' - And not 'Apostles', as a title. You say the Lord called him, (or called him to be), one of the 12 apostle's. There is no verse, or set of verses, in your Bible that states such, and to say there is, is deceitful to those reading this thread. (Why anyone else would support you is astounding - As well as surprising.) Let me quote you Alan - "Brethren, The Lord Jesus personally chose Paul, then called Saul, as the 12th. Apostle, to replace Judas Iscariot." (No verses say this!) "Brethren, There are only 12 Apostles and Paul was the 12th Apostle to replace Judas Iscariot." (Again, no verses say this!) "I explained the study on Paul the Apostle as the 12th Apostle to replace Judas Iscariot, more than adequately, in my estimation." (Without one verse that says this!) "Paul is clearly the replacement of the office of Judas Iscariot in fulfillment of Psalm 109:8, "Let his days be few; and another take his office." (Without one verse that says such!) "The Lord Jesus verbally called Paul as the Apostle to replace the office of Judas Iscariot in order to fulfill Psalm 109:8" (No such words came out of the Lord Jesus' mouth!) "The facts concerning the calling of Paul to replace Judas Iscariot, in his office of an Apostle, are as I wrote them in accordance to the doctrines of the scriptures." (Except you gave no verses to show for that so-called doctrine, Alan!) It looks like you are the one who needs to apologize.

Nope. Not one verse you quoted said that. Not one time does the scriptures say that Paul replaced Judas...not once! Yet Alan says it does. Keep looking though. Maybe it's there...maybe. Or maybe you believe a man made doctrine.

So I guess that's an amen to throwing out the facts and reliability of what the word of God actually says. You all are just amazing.

As for the silly idea that the 12 apostles were not led by the Holy Spirit before pentecost - the Lord Jesus gave'm him - well, here, once again let God tell us - in John 20 - 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" And as stated before, the actual English word means 'sent for a particular reason', then we all are apostles. For who would deny that the 'great commission' is not for us all? 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. And that is a direct quote from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ himself. Not Bro. Greene. Nor Alan. But as some here would deny even these things for a private interpretation, I guess we could just throw those verses out too.

Alan, I did not reference Bro. Green because he is a man, and not the word of God. That's all. I care not for some 20th century mans opinion. Respected or not.

Thick headed? Maybe. I am just tired of 'men of God' saying the scriptures mean grape juice when the drink was indeed alcoholic. Otherwise why the warning in 1 Timothy 3:3 and 3:8, of which nobody has touched on? A book about the supposed English translations from various languages of men stating different views on 'wine' makes no difference to me. There are just as many 'testimonies' to the contrary from other men. Of course the Temperance society was going to explain why there were two different interpretations, one to show Jesus drank juice, and one that states alcohol is evil. Just because something has alcohol in it that doesn't mean someone gets inebriated and loses control. Take Nyquil for an example. Used as a medication by probably most Christians, without getting the least bit inebriated in a 'deceivable and sinful way'.

Anyone 'called' is given the 'apostleship' just like Paul did. We are also called to be apostles. Look carefully below - Romans 1 - 1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: Do you see it?

Acts 14:14 - "Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,..." The word "apostles" just means someone 'sent'. From about the 12th century this word existed, and meant anyone 'sent' for a cause. Scripture in the above verse proves that out, and disproves that Paul was the 'so-called' 12th apostle. In the NT anyone who was 'sent' out to do the Lord's work was an apostle, but not necessarily of the original 12 disciples, which the Lord Jesus called apostles.

Are you the originator of this thoughtline? I have NEVER heard this before your last thread, and I find it FANTASTIC that very few have called you on this. I believe the scriptures teach, as they say. Matthias was chosen. Paul was the Gentile preacher and Peter the Jew's preacher. Paul even is recorded in Galatians 2 as such, separated from Peter's ministry. 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

No brider here either.

And look at all the 'acts' ... Philip was not an Apostle. Barnabas was not an Apostle. Stephen was not an Apostle. Or were they? Yes, but not of the 12.