Was there any Baptist who interpreted Jonah 3: 10 that repentance of sin is a work prior to Steven Anderson?

[mbkjpreacher]

I would agree with the author of this book but not with the Pentecostals nor of Andersonism doctrine which has the same definition of repentance of sin to that of the Pentecostals and cults.  

[Ukulelemike]

The problem comes, I think, with confusing repentance with the result of repentance, or if you will, repentance of heart with repentance in action. True repentance will come with a change in behavior, the heart action resulting in the change of behavior: heart to works.  Now, some things repented of can take time to turn into an action, (ie, addictions, etc). in the case of Nineveh, their repentance, initially, was a changed heart, followed by prayer and fasting with a true intent of heart to change and obey God. Yes, there was a work, but that was a work borne out of repentance of the heart. I do not believe that God would accept any work that wasn't based on at least a repentant heart-even if he knows they may not get it right in action, if the heart is right, truly wanting to please God. If they were just doing a work with no repentant heart behind it, God probably wouldn't have spared them.

[heartstrings]

The basic meaning of "repent", in the Bible, is to "turn" from or against. The Ninevites turned from sin in their hearts in faith. Why was it faith? Because they believed the words of Jonah. about God's coming wrath. The "repenting" came first and the "works" followed. So the King of Nineveh had to "repent", by faith, in his heart, before deciding to don the sackcloth and order the citizens to do the same. But, It's also an example of others being able to see your faith BY your works.

[Jordan Kurecki]

On 1/20/2021 at 10:30 AM, heartstrings said:

The basic meaning of "repent", in the Bible, is to "turn" from or against. The Ninevites turned from sin in their hearts in faith. Why was it faith? Because they believed the words of Jonah. about God's coming wrath. The "repenting" came first and the "works" followed. So the King of Nineveh had to "repent", by faith, in his heart, before deciding to don the sackcloth and order the citizens to do the same. But, It's also an example of others being able to see your faith BY your works.

This is not exactly accurate. The word "repent" has different meaning depending on context, in the OT testament there are at least two different Hebrew words translated as repent. While one of the words translated as repent, Shub, means to turn, the more common word translated as repent however is Nacham, which means more of like "to sigh" and by implication means to be sorry, if you look at that particular Hebrew word and study it more you get the sense of someone has changed their thinking inwardly. Imagine a person "sighing" and changing their mind about something and realizing they were wrong.

In Greek the common word is metanoeo which literally means a change of mind. 
There is also another word where Judas "repented" that means more like regret. 

There really is no such as "THE" basic meaning of repent in the Bible, because depending upon the context, and depending on the Hebrew or Greek word, the word repent takes on different meanings.

You can't just come up with ONE theological definition of the word "repent" and then force that onto every word or passage in the Bible. 

 

[Kleptes]

It is amazing how some preachers like Steven Anderson can turn people from a true belief in Jesus Christ with out work, but with work.  Repentance isn't turning from sin, it is turn to the LORD.  Why do we turn because of conviction by the Holy Ghost and then and only then can we truly turn to God and believe on Jesus Christ of whom the God Father sent.

The only work that I know is the work of God the Father.  

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Kleptes

[Hugh_Flower]

Isn't fighting/fleeing temptation considered a work? 

 

[heartstrings]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:11 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

This is not exactly accurate. The word "repent" has different meaning depending on context, in the OT testament there are at least two different Hebrew words translated as repent. While one of the words translated as repent, Shub, means to turn, the more common word translated as repent however is Nacham, which means more of like "to sigh" and by implication means to be sorry, if you look at that particular Hebrew word and study it more you get the sense of someone has changed their thinking inwardly. Imagine a person "sighing" and changing their mind about something and realizing they were wrong.

In Greek the common word is metanoeo which literally means a change of mind. 
There is also another word where Judas "repented" that means more like regret. 

There really is no such as "THE" basic meaning of repent in the Bible, because depending upon the context, and depending on the Hebrew or Greek word, the word repent takes on different meanings.

You can't just come up with ONE theological definition of the word "repent" and then force that onto every word or passage in the Bible. 

 

Here's one use of the word translated from "Nacham".....

Jonah 3:10

 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

Do you think God "sighed" here? No He turned from the evil (bad stuff), which He was fully intending to do to them, when he saw that THEY had "turned" from theirs. Here's another.......

Genesis 6:6

And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Do you think God "sighed" here as well? Do you think he was sorry that he made man? No, He did neither. Notice it does not even say "God repented". What it says is "it repented God". I personally do not believe God "regretted" making man(not saying that you would believe that) or that he was "sorry" or anything like that. What I believe it means here is that God's creation, namely man, had turned against him. To further that thought, there's another thing to consider,: none of this took God by surprise: He knew man would sin from the very beginning. So why "sigh" or even be sorry? 

 

[1Timothy115]

I didn’t take time to read all the comments of this thread, just the original post, so I have no idea what others have said, please pardon any redundancy. I had never heard of Steven Anderson before this thread. I have seen one of his videos on the death sentence for all homosexuals.

Jonah 3:10   And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

There was a lot more they were doing that could be considered “works” as follows: 
“the people of Nineveh believed God”
“proclaimed a fast”
“put on sackcloth”
“from the greatest of them even to the least of them ”
“the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes”
(the king) “he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:”
“let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God”

But this latter part is not a work but a willful inward change. This is repentance and it isn’t a work of man it is a fear and respect of God and turning from self-will by the entire city of Nineveh.
“let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.”

Is your turning from sin to the will of God a work, or a grace emanating from God's grace toward your faith? 

Personally, I read Jonah 3:10 with Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 1:16 and I see no disparity in the traditional tenants of Baptists teaching of repentance. I’ll go with William Evans, THE GREAT DOCTRINES OF THE BIBLE ; “change of mind, heart movement, not only a heart broken “for” sin, but ”from” sin also.”
 

[SureWord]

14 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I didn’t take time to read all the comments of this thread, just the original post, so I have no idea what others have said, please pardon any redundancy. I had never heard of Steven Anderson before this thread. I have seen one of his videos on the death sentence for all homosexuals.

Jonah 3:10   And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

There was a lot more they were doing that could be considered “works” as follows: 
“the people of Nineveh believed God”
“proclaimed a fast”
“put on sackcloth”
“from the greatest of them even to the least of them ”
“the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes”
(the king) “he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:”
“let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God”

But this latter part is not a work but a willful inward change. This is repentance and it isn’t a work of man it is a fear and respect of God and turning from self-will by the entire city of Nineveh.
“let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.”

Is your turning from sin to the will of God a work, or a grace emanating from God's grace toward your faith? 

Personally, I read Jonah 3:10 with Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 1:16 and I see no disparity in the traditional tenants of Baptists teaching of repentance. I’ll go with William Evans, THE GREAT DOCTRINES OF THE BIBLE ; “change of mind, heart movement, not only a heart broken “for” sin, but ”from” sin also.”
 

Steven Anderson is an anti-semite who essentially believes every IFB pastor or layman who disagrees with him on any issue is going to hell. This, of course, is to establish his complete power and authority over his flock to prevent any questioning of his teachings. Apparently, though,  recently he's had some serious personal issues within his own family that led to a departure of many from his church. These things happen. Pastors can have wives and children who do bad things but the difference here is Anderson isn't going to hell because of it. If this was to happen to any other preacher it would be a sure sign they are possessed of devils and going to hell. In other words, he's a hypocrite.

Now, that being said, the first time the word "repent" is used in the bible is in Genesis 6:6 and it's the Lord who repents. Following the Law of First Mention this would make repentance an act of changing one's mind and regretting a decision which leads to change but the change itself is not repentance just the fruit of repentance.

Remember when our Lord told the Twelve to forgive a brother 70x7? That was a brother who repented but still kept committing the same offense yet he still was considered to have repented. Sometimes the works may take awhile to follow 

Apparently, God can show regret and change his mind about something even though he's omniscient and immutable. My guess it's a case of anthropomorphism.

[heartstrings]

14 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

I didn’t take time to read all the comments of this thread, just the original post, so I have no idea what others have said, please pardon any redundancy. I had never heard of Steven Anderson before this thread. I have seen one of his videos on the death sentence for all homosexuals.

Jonah 3:10   And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

There was a lot more they were doing that could be considered “works” as follows: 
“the people of Nineveh believed God”
“proclaimed a fast”
“put on sackcloth”
“from the greatest of them even to the least of them ”
“the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes”
(the king) “he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:”
“let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God”

But this latter part is not a work but a willful inward change. This is repentance and it isn’t a work of man it is a fear and respect of God and turning from self-will by the entire city of Nineveh.
“let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.”

Is your turning from sin to the will of God a work, or a grace emanating from God's grace toward your faith? 

Personally, I read Jonah 3:10 with Ephesians 2:8-9 and John 1:16 and I see no disparity in the traditional tenants of Baptists teaching of repentance. I’ll go with William Evans, THE GREAT DOCTRINES OF THE BIBLE ; “change of mind, heart movement, not only a heart broken “for” sin, but ”from” sin also.”
 

When you "believe", it is called "faith". All the rest that they did simply demonstrated that faith. They believed enough to take action.

The actual "repentance" occurred in their hearts the moment they "believed God".

[1Timothy115]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:12 AM, SureWord said:

Now, that being said, the first time the word "repent" is used in the bible is in Genesis 6:6 and it's the Lord who repents. Following the Law of First Mention this would make repentance an act of changing one's mind and regretting a decision which leads to change but the change itself is not repentance just the fruit of repentance.

Remember when our Lord told the Twelve to forgive a brother 70x7? That was a brother who repented but still kept committing the same offense yet he still was considered to have repented. Sometimes the works may take awhile to follow 

Apparently, God can show regret and change his mind about something even though he's omniscient and immutable. My guess it's a case of anthropomorphism.

I've seen a lot of debate over Genesis 6:6 "repented the LORD" and other places in scripture.  I believe that what happened was God correcting the course of mankind and every land creature  man had touched. If God was repenting, who was He repenting to? Who was He required to change for? God observed Noah living in His will; so, mankind was preserved which goes with Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8, James 1:17, 1 Peter 3:20, and 2 Peter 2:5. Hebrews 11:7, 1 Peter 3:20, and 2 Peter 2:5.

I believe what we call God repentance is actually man's obedience or return to obedience and aligning with the will of God. It's man turning into the will of God and not attempting to go against the current of God's will. Such was the case with Nineveh. Opposed to everything Holy, but when they turned to the will of God, they were no longer out of God's will.

I've always likened, God's repent, to a man attempting to paddle up stream against a fast current. how long before he realizes he has to go near to the shore to continue. Like us coming near to the Lord and into God's will. "Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you." James 4:8

[Jim_Alaska]

IMHO, I think a lot of misunderstanding comes in because people always want to equate repentance with sin. But the word actually means to "turn". So when we see that God repented in Scriptures such as Jerimiah and Micah, we need to understand that God simply turned from what He was going to do and did it not.

In both places He had said He would destroy both Jerusalem and Nineveh; but when they repented with a godly repentance, God also repented, or turned from what He had said He would do and did it not. No sin on God's part at all, he simply changed His mind and turned from His promise to destroy them.

[SureWord]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:13 AM, heartstrings said:

When you "believe", it is called "faith". All the rest that they did simply demonstrated that faith. They believed enough to take action.

The actual "repentance" occurred in their hearts the moment they "believed God".

Sounds good to me, sister.

[Jim_Alaska]

SureWord, "heartstrings" is a Baptist pastor from Florida; so, not a sister, but a brother.

[SureWord]

2 hours ago, SureWord said:

Sounds good to me, brother

 

18 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

SureWord, "heartstrings" is a Baptist pastor from Florida; so, not a sister, but a brother.

Lol, my mistake. For some reason I thought I was responding to HappyChristian.