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mbkjpreacher

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mbkjpreacher last won the day on August 2 2020

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  1. Brother Markle, I did use Galatians 5: 6 to prove that FAITH WORKS BY LOVE I have three questions for this phrase "Faith which worketh by love": 1. Is such phrase applicable only to saved people already? 2. Can unsaved people exercise faith prior to salvation? 3. Would a person exercise faith if there is no love at all, but his heart is full of hatred for God? - I think you have answer for this already. 4. Whose love is mentioned here, Love of God or both God and man? My understanding is that God's love being understood by man motivates him to love God and to exercise faith.
  2. Is there a member with the name as Fidelia. She message me of that she has big sum amount of donation. I think she is a scammer.
  3. Brother Markle, I need a clarification which of the statement you do not agree with Galatians 5: 1-6?
  4. Brother Markle, Yes there are cases when the writer was writing to the believers yet he is recalling past event which relates on how they were saved, such as Ephesians 2: 8-9, Paul was talking to the saved already but he was stating the fact or principle on how they were saved by grace through faith. So still we can learn about the principle of salvation though it is written to the saved people already. Also in James 1: 18, you have affirmed that God's word is speaking to the believers about the principle and event of their regeneration, therefore we can still learn principles of regeneration and salvation from a letter written to believers already and in fact all Epistles of Paul were written to believers and churches, yet there are many principles of salvation that we can learn from them. I am using 1 John 4: 19 as supporting passage to the fact that our love for God is a response when we understand God's love for us through the gospel. It is through the knowledge of the gospel message that our heart is moved and our will is influenced to decide willingly to believe on the Lord Jesus. The first time a person would respond to love God is when he understand God's love for him, that is when he understands the gospel message. (1 John 4: 9). There are those who believe that all men or some men love God even if they are unbelievers and have not heard yet of the gospel message, but the Bible is clear that we do not love God but that He loved us ( 1 John 4: 10). Though one verse speaks the truth yet it is hard to convince others without supporting verses, so we need more supporting verses to prove our point and that includes John 3: 19-20. The reason why I am stressing 1 John 4: 19 is because there are many views and beliefs when does man respond to love God. Calvinists believe that man cannot hear, cannot understand, cannot humble, cannot repent, cannot love, cannot believe unless regenerated. So they place the ability to hear, repent, believe, love only after a person is saved. The followers of Steven Anderson that I have personally encountered say that there is no emotional factor in salvation, no godly sorrow, as long as you just believe. In fact some of them would say, that there is no heart involved only the mind to believe. They would even twist in their video of James 2: 19 in order to support their idea of just intellectual belief for salvation. I showed to them that believing involves the heart, Romans 10: 9. They also say many Catholics love God, so they interpret the word believe in the book of John does not involve fear, conviction, humility, repentance or a change of mind from sinful way, and from loving sin to loving God. Some of them have come to a point of believing that the gospel of Matthew, Mark and Luke is different from the gospel of John because Matthew to Luke did mention repentance while John did not. In Ephesians 2: 8-9, it mentioned that salvation is by grace through faith, but in the book of John such as John 6: 47 it does not mention grace yet it is implied in light with other passages. Thus when we read "believe" in the the book of John, it does not mean apart from grace or without repentance or without a response of love for God for it is evident that the sinner can respond to love God when he understands God's love for him (1 John 4: 19). It is evident that faith works by love, Galatians 5: 6. Thus when we see the word believe in the book of John, conviction, humility, repentance are included in the word faith or believe. In Galatians 5: 1-6, Paul was trying to distinguish false believers to true believers. He said whosoever of you are justified by the law, ye are fallen from grace. He was also talking about "righteousness by faith" and that is about justification by faith. In verse 6, he is stating the fact that faith works by love. Is the principle of faith works by love true only in Christian living and not true in receiving salvation? I think this is a statement of general truth. The Andersonites understanding of repentance of sin is to quit sinning or to cease from sin. Thus they removed it as requisite of salvation and so they say that there is no repentance of sin when a person believes. As consequence of their belief, there is no need to admit that one is a sinner, that he is condemned, there is no need to change his view about sin that it is displeasing to God, there is no need for a change of heart for he can love sin while believing in God. I am not talking about hating sin all the time to be saved or believing always to be saved. But I am talking about the moment of faith when he understands the gospel, that there must be repentance of sin when a person trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior for why will a person who loves sin and does not want to be delivered from it trust the Savior? It is also my belief that a person can resist the gospel. He can even reject it before hearing it due to pride. The unregenerate can either respond in humility and pride to the conviction of the Spirit and to the gospel. It does not mean that the depraved sinner can come to God by himself apart from the Spirit's influence. Rather under divine grace and the Spirit's influence the depraved sinner can come to God by faith. Humility and repentance is already included in true faith. A sinner can understand more the gospel when he does not stop to listen with just one verse presented and then turn his back, but as he continues to humbly listen the more he is enlightened and come to a point of clearly understanding the love of God. It matters on how he responds to the gospel presentation, if he continues to listen with humbleness of mind as the Spirit convicts through the word preached, then he will come to understand the love of God in the gospel message, but if he resist the truth in his mind by pride then the truth will not change his heart. If his heart is not changed by the truth, his will will not decide to believe. Faith is not repentance and repentance is not faith, but repentance precedes faith (Acts 20: 21; Mark 1: 15; Heb. 6: 1; Matthew 21: 32). Repentance and faith are distinct but inseparable graces. Hearing, humility, repentance, love are implied when faith or believe is mentioned only. Repentance is a change of mind and is not work. If it is repentance from sin, still it is not work. It is just a change of mind about sin. If a driver changes his mind from wrong driving to right driving, the change of mind does not become a work. It is the driving that is work.
  5. I do agree with you especially in this statement: First there is the intellectual knowledge of the gospel truth which becomes clearer as he humbly listen through the conviction of the Holy Spirit shedding light about the love of God, (Titus 3: 4) that his heart is moved to believe and respond in love (1 John 4: 19), Thus changing his mind about sin, from the love of sin to the love of God, from unbelief to belief, that is repentance of sin, admitting that he is a condemned sinner, undeserving, and worthy of eternal punishment, thus trusting in Jesus for his salvation. That the 3 faculties of the soul are affected by the gospel: Intellect -> Emotion -> Will The will does not refer to physical action but decision in the mind and heart. That faith is not repentance but that repentance precedes faith , Acts 20: 21, Mark 1: 15; Heb. 6: 1. That repentance is implied in John 3: 16, Eph. 2: 8 just as humility is implied. With regards to 1 John 4: 19 here is my question: 1. Is it your proposition that this 1 John 4: 19 is not applicable to the first time a person hears and understood the love of God? 2. Could this not refer to the first time we responded to the love of God to love him? 3. Are there not instances where the writer is writing to believers yet talking about the time they heard the gospel such as James 1: 18 and were born again? 4. Couldn't James be talking about the principle of regeneration in James 1: 18 yet written to the believers?
  6. I don't get what you are trying to say with hypotheticals on doctrine and Scripture. If ever I am very detailed as I search out a matter or in my personal study about doctrines, it does not mean that every Missionary Baptist or pastor is like me and there are many Missionary Baptists who just believe simply because it is in the Bible. I think every man has his gift from God regardless of which Baptist does he belong, there are many good preachers and debaters in every Baptist group. However it seemed that you are saying that Missionary Baptists doctrines are based on hypotheticals or that there are many pastors among Missionary Baptists whose make hypothetical as doctrines. That means you are saying that there are not pastors among the Independent Baptists who make hypothetical as doctrines. If such proposition you have is true, then there should not be too much divisions and variations of doctrines among Independent Baptists. If your statement is true, and that the reason why you leave Missionary Baptists and joined the Independent Baptists is because there are no people in Independent Baptists who make hypothetical as doctrine, then why are there so many variations of doctrines and beliefs among Independent Baptists? Why do some believe in Universal Church and others local church only? Why do some believe like Steven Anderson and others do not? Why are there so many variations of definitions of repentance that others believe that repentance of sin is a work or quit sinning while others do not but believe repentance of sin is a change of mind about sin, not a work. Why do others practice closed communion while others open communion and all these calling themselves as Independent Baptists. I think your proposition and reason cannot be proven that there are no heretical among independent Baptists such as Steven Anderson who teaches heresy. Independent Baptists are also divided concerning gap theory and 6 day creation. Is it your proposition that pastors in the Independent Baptists just believe what is stated in the declaration of faith and do not make further study of Scriptures in more details? I don't get what you mean by hypothetical and if you are saying that there is no such persons among Independent Baptists. If you made such judgement because I am so detailed, I just want to know the opinion of others because we are commanded in the Scripture to search out a matter. We usually search out a matter when false doctrines come out, and so we seek deeper, to find out the truth, and the Bible tells us to compare spiritual things with spiritual. We are commanded in the Scripture to study to shew thyself approved unto God... and to compare spiritual things with spiritual. Because I have been engage in various discussion of doctrines, that is why I have to prove every doctrine if such belief is not contradicting to Scriptures but is harmonious. We are told to search the Scriptures. If a person's belief is indeed Biblical, he will always have the right answer that is not contradictory to the Scriptures, but Scripture is explained by Scripture.
  7. The good thing about local and autonomous churches is that there is freedom of convictions and belief yet through fellowships there is a sharing of what is commonly believed according to the bible. That is what missionary Baptists believe. Though missionary Baptist are also independent Baptists, yet those who call themselves independent Baptists vary much in teachings from local church to universal church idea, and there is not much unity in beliefs. As Baptists, we have the freedom to express what we believe, to compare beliefs in light with the Bible, as Baptists are champions of interpretation of the bible and religious liberty.
  8. Thus Anderson twisted the meaning of repentance saying that if it is about sin then that repentance is work and he used Jonah 3:10 to support his belief. If it is a change of mind from wrong it becomes work, so if a man changes his mind from wrong driving to right driving, that becomes work. This is what all his followers teach also
  9. Would you agree that it is also the same doctrine of repentance in the Old Testament such as Isaiah 55: 7?
  10. Is it your position that the unsaved person cannot respond in humility and love when he understands the gospel and believes? I do not mean of love as mature love or perfect love ( 1 John 4: 18). At least there is love or initial love as I John 4: 19 says we love Him because He first loved us. It is by the understanding of God's love that influences the intellect and moves the emotion to love God, for if a person does not understand the love of God, he would not accept the Lord Jesus. Just like a woman would not accept the love of a man if she does not understand it. But when her heart seem to melt because of the love of the man, that she respond in love. And there is a saying that love and trust go together. Usually when a girl falls in love with a man, she gives so much trust in him that she would even disobey her parents. How much more is the love of God, understood by the gospel message, that our hearts are moved to believe because of the fact of our condemnation and the fact of God's love so great. We love him because he first loved us -- This happens at the point of understanding the gospel, which leads to repentance and faith (Romans 2: 4). If there is no love at the point of faith in Christ, that would only fall to mere belief and profession. Just as a child won't buy ice cream if he does not love it. It is true that as faith has to grow to mature so love needs to grow to mature also. But at least there is initial love when he believes and understood the gospel. If the idea is that some men love God prior to understanding the gospel, then that idea disagrees with 1 John 4: 19 which states that we love him because he first loved us. Therefore there is a turning point in man's mind and heart from loving sin to loving God, from unbelief to belief in Christ, and that is repentance of sin. Or should he be saved first before he can humble and believe with love? Again, the humble acceptance of Christ as savior, IMHO, is a must. If there is no humility, there is no need for a savior. Admitting one is a sinner and in need of a savior takes humility. Again...read above for love and the growth of it...some may love Christ immediately...others may have some sort of love for him, but not a love that is strong. Yes true that humility, faith, and love, can be exercised prior to salvation under the Spirit's conviction and the word. Calvinism teaches that the unregenerate cannot hear, repent, and believe prior to regeneration and that is a different story. My point is that there is that initial love, a change of mind and heart from loving sin to loving God at the point of understanding the gospel message at the moment he believes.. His knowledge of the truth moves his emotion to trust Christ. How can you explain faith which worketh by love? A strong faith will build over time as one grows in their love for the Lord. Faith increases over time. Again, some may have it fully, or near fully immediately. Others will have their faith grow over time (we all do, but some much more than others). For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:5-6) If you would look at the context it is not about growing in faith as a Christian but righteousness by faith, and this is about salvation. So the faith here refers to faith exercised in salvation and that it works by love. This is related to 1 John 4: 19 we love him because he first loved us. That means when he exercised faith, there is love in it, not bitterness or hatred. Though we are not saved by love or humility. We are saved by faith, yet there is an element of humility and love when we exercised faith in Christ. Would a person trust Jesus yet in his heart there is hatred for Him? I don't believe this is a possiblity. Right Can't man have the ability to change mind from hatred of the gospel truth to love of the gospel truth prior to salvation? I believe there has to be a certain degree of love for a person to receive Christ. Amen, we agree in this position.
  11. Is it your position that the unsaved person cannot respond in humility and love when he understands the gospel and believes? Or should he be saved first before he can humble and believe with love? How can you explain faith which worketh by love? Would a person trust Jesus yet in his heart there is hatred for Him? Can't man have the ability to change mind from hatred of the gospel truth to love of the gospel truth prior to salvation?
  12. Actually John the beloved taught repentance as you see in Revelation 9, the Andersonites have not discovered this yet. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. (Revelation 9:20-21)
  13. That the point they do not have the love of God in their hearts, when people say I love God, they are just being religious hypocrites for how can they love God without knowing Him. We only love God when we understand God's love for us, 1 John 4: 19.
  14. That shows that the Holy Spirit influences and convicts all men as in John 16: 8, yet when it comes to regeneration they have to hear the word of God (James 1: 18). Such as the case of Cornelius must have heard already and were under conviction of the Spirit that led him to the preacher. I would like to know what is your interpretation of John 3: 19-21. 1) All men are sinners and rebellious to God, hates God and the truth until convicted by the Spirit and the truth of God's word. 2) Some sinners love God and the truth even without the influence and conviction of the Spirit and the Word. Please select which represent your position 1 or 2 for better understanding and communication.
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