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Jordan Kurecki

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Jordan Kurecki last won the day on January 13 2023

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About Jordan Kurecki

  • Birthday 03/11/1992

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  • Location:
    Uganda
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    Independent Baptist

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  1. I understand what you are saying and will have to give it some more thought, Perhaps you are right that I assumed wearable=clothing in this context. Also, I never asserted that pants was inherently mans wear. I agree as you stated “by its actual Hebrew grammar and its original Mosaic context, the verse could not have been referring to pants-wear. Attempts to indicate that pants-wear is somehow inherently built into the ORIGINAL MEANING of the verse are false to the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures.” My response was based on an argument I have heard from some claiming that the passage refers exclusively to weapons and attire of war and who thus limit the passage to things as women going to war, and who want to exclude any inclusion of clothing.
  2. I basically have agreed with almost everything you have said up to this point, but I just want to offer some light, pushback on this. Even in the bible itself, especially in the Gospels for example, you will often see words that are different from each other used to in those inspired parallel accounts, but words which are closely synonymous. Even in the KJO preface (Which I know is not inspired) they defend their practice of NOT translating Hebrew or Greek words consistently by appealing to their perception that God used a "diversity" of words to express the same sense in his word. Couple that with the Hebrew practice of parallelism which often contrast, expands, and sometimes even states one singular idea with two different phrases, I think we should be careful of making a sharp distinction simply due to different words choices. Yes different word choices do sometimes denote different meanings, but not always. Another caution about doing words studies as well is in order, words have what we call "Semantic Range", meaning that a word can have more than one meaning, depending on the context in which it used. For example, the word "good" in English can mean a variety of things, it can mean "morally excellent" as in "The law is good" or it can mean "pleasant" as in the "the food tastes good" or it can mean "of a high quality" as in "he does good work" etc etc etc. All of those meanings are slightly different in nuance and highly contextualized. Some words can have pretty significant difference depending on context, for example the English word run. You can "run" to the store, meaning you "went", you can "run" a business, meaning you're in charge and responsible for it, you can also "run" for your life, meaning you fled, a car automobile can "run" meaning it operates properly. That being said, a word study, whereby one looks at all the occurrences of word in the Bible will be good for illuminating the semantic range of word, but some people make the mistake of forcing the sense of a word in one context, onto another context and vice verse, or of trying to apply ALL the different senses and uses of a word into each place the word is found in linguistics this is called the "illegitimate total fallacy". Just because a word has one sense in 324 places for example, it may still yet have another distinct sense in 1 other single place based on context. That being said, I essentially agree with the conclusions you are presenting here, but I just wanted to point out something that I see people say. People often say things that are different are not the same, but usually when people say they, they are only looking at the form of words and not the sense, and what many people do not realize is sometimes different forms can express similar or identical "senses" That being said, let me make some observations. 1. כְּלִי and שִׂמְלָה both appear to be set in parallel to each-other, with the second clause clearly being about a man wearing a woman's garment. 2. כְלִי appears to be a word that has a rough meaning of "articles, possessions, objects" etc, and the type of objects it can refer to seems largely dependent on context, in some contexts it appears to refer to items of warfare, in some places just general objects, in some contexts used of a yoke of oxen, and we could go on and on and on. 3. In Hebrew, a rigidly literal translation of the phrase in question would be "There should not be upon women, כְּלִי of a man. From my point of view, based on context and what seems to be a basic sense of כְּלִי that the word is in fact referring to clothing. One way of understanding the passage would be something like "There should not be the general things of men, UPON women", the Hebrew preposition "עַל" literal means "upon" and that tells us that the כְּלִי in mind are things that can be "on" someone. The Hebrew preposition and the parallelism found in the passage, seems to strongly imply to me that the כְּלִי is in fact referring to the clothing of men. After all, what are the "things of men" that can be physically "upon" someone but clothing? I think the fact that the KJV translators translated it as a woman shall not "wear" seems to indicate that the KJV translators picked up on these clues as well, especially since there is no actual explicit Hebrew verb in the first half of the verse that actually means "wear". I don't honestly see any sharp distinction contextually to try and draw out a significant distinction between כְּלִי and שִׂמְלָה in this particular context.
  3. If by “superior” you mean “more profitable” then yes, if you mean “more accurate” than absolutely not. How can a translate be superior to it’s source? Unless you think the original words in Greek given by inspiration were somehow lacking, which would be an unbiblical doctrine. Just because from a pragmatic perspective, you can read English and not Greek, does not mean the KJV is superior to the Greek TR. There are people in Uganda who speak Lugbara and not English, and the Lugbara bible is based on the critical text and is more or less closer to the NIV or ESV, does their lack of English understanding mean the Lugbara bible is more superior to the English KJV?
  4. If you want to play that game, in the New Testament people sold ALL that they had and laid it at the Apostles feet. Go to your church this Sunday and give literally every dollar you own, and then I will respect your consistency, after all, did God ever tell anyone not to give everything they have to the church?
  5. Where in the Old Testament was Abraham COMMANDED by God to tithe? You seem to confuse descriptive history with it being “instituted by God”. Just because Abraham tithed, does not mean he did it because God “instituted” a tithe on him. The Old Testament is full of people giving things to God that he did not require, but simply because they CHOSE to in order to worship and honor God.
  6. The canons of textual criticism are pretty much just opinion and conjecture passed off as science in my opinion, I want to know what experiments they have done to prove their different canons. Like was there some study done that demonstrates when people are asked to copy something that they are more likely to add things than to omit them? IMO it's much easier to omit something than to add something not there.
  7. I am not asking you to prove the KJVO position, nor did I anywhere state my position, nor did I attack the KJV. I simply asked you to give one example to substantiate a very specific claim. If your not willing to do that, nor if you are desiring to discuss the differences between the KJV and the NKJV, then why did YOU bring it up? You are the one that brought up this oft repeated talking point. I find it rather disingenuous that now you are saying you don't wish to discuss that point. You are on a public forum and you made an assertion, I simply asked for one example, if the examples are so clear and obvious, I don't understand why you would not take the opportunity to give concrete evidence?
  8. Jerry, just wanted to clarify, what you are saying here is simply untrue. The Modern English version for example is also based on the Hebrew Masoretic Text/Greek Textus Receptus, and so is the NKJV, regardless of what you are asserting. Just because the NKJV differs in translation choice from the KJV, does not mean it's based on a different Greek text, anymore than the KJV is from different text than the previous Geneva Bible and Bishops Bible (of which the KJV was a officially a revision of) If you could demonstrate one example of where the NKJV follows the critical text, I would be interested to see it. If you want to reject the NKJV for it's translational choices, there are some legitimate criticisms to be made there, but to say it's based on a different text is patently false. Even if you still wrote off the NKJV as being " based on the critical text" (even though it's not), the MEV exists and entire churches even use it, Also the Geneva Bible is based on the Masoretic Text and the Greek Textus Receptus, and there are individuals today still using it, in fact there is even a "Modernized Geneva Bible" with modern spelling of words (No word changes), therefore the charge the the KJV "is the only current English translation in use that is based on the preserved Textus Receptus Greek Text and the Hebrew Masoretic Text" is simply not true. Can you please provide a source for this statement, I have never been able to find any law that actually states this but would be glad to see it.
  9. Totally agree with your philosophy. It certainly would cost both local churches and missionaries less money in the long run, and also would make furloughs easier. Also makes it easier for your church to actually mentally keep up with your supported missionaries. a lot easier to keep up with 5 missionaries at say 300 a month than 20 missionaries at 75 a month.
  10. Sorry, I interpreted your question as somewhat of a rhetorical question.
  11. I highly doubt it's motivated by $, they probably just feel like the NASB has some deficiencies and wished to correct them. I would be hesitant to ascribe ill motives when we don't know them.
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