Creation / Evolution
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Romans 6 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Likeness of his death....... Don't ya hate it when the Bible disagrees with you? -
Just to be clear, my 'full immersion requirement' is not based on consensus. It's based on Scriptural example and the Biblical explanation for the picture that baptism is to provide. Are you able to provide a Scriptural reason to back up your idea of not-fully-dunking? I don't see why they would have needed tanks in their houses... considering the early examples for baptism (John the Baptist, Philip) utilized external bodies of water, I would have expected the early churches to continue with the same example. Hey, i know a church that still uses a lake for baptism, since they haven't got a tank in their rented building. They're located in the Canadian mountains, so it's a tad cold (even in July), but it's very Biblical! 😄 That being said, it was not uncommon in the era for villas to have their own private baths (which included several large water basins), so it wouldn't have been out of the question for a wealthy Roman (like Cornelius) to actually have his own thermae. This isn't directly related, but it's a picture I love. This shows the baptismal font in a Catholic building in Rome, San Giovanni in Laterno, commissioned by Constantine. The current font is on a platform in what was original the baptismal pool... back when the building was originally built and they still practiced baptism by immersion! 😄 (Not intending to open a debate on catholic doctrine and what's wrong with it/how it's different/Constantine. I just love how this picture shows so clearly that they used to immerse - their little bitty font (okay, it's kind of a big font) is literally located in a swimming pool!) -
Salyan, i understand. The consensus is clear and the reasons for it. But somehow I doubt Cornelius and the folks in other house churches had big water tanks or even a bathtub big enough to lie down in. Something is going to stick up out of the water, which violates your full-immersion requirement. -
Forwards or backwards doesn't matter... it's the immersion that matters. And immersion by definition means full coverage. Fully buried, fully raised. Not just the head. I think that's what Dave's getting at. I know some a church that uses a stock tank too small for a full backwards layout... I'm sure they use some kind of crouching in the process, but they still get fully wet! 😉
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DaveW, You wrote: There is ABSOLUTELY no biblical instruction nor example of this. How does this show the death of Christ? On the other hand, the procedure of laying people backwards one time into water is tradition. The NT does not specifically state how it should be done. I think it symbolizes the death of Christ if you have to hold your breath to avoid getting a lung-full. The NT says we should baptize/dip/immerse in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost (Acts 10:48 says "in the name of the Lord"). The specifics of the procedure are based on tradition and might be influenced by the situation. When you are baptizing 3000 people and a river is nearby, then go for it. Notice in Acts 10:47-48 Cornelius et al were baptized with water in his house. Full-body immersion backwards in a large container is not specified. 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
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