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Jordan Kurecki

Steven Anderson

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11 hours ago, Jerry said:

I don’t want to derail this thread. I was thinking of this earlier.

I understand, Roby, that you cannot accept our belief in Kjvonly in the english language; however, you do accept it as a valid Bible to read and study from. For the sake of peace, can you at least respect the position of this board and fellowship over what we do agree on? When I volunteered/worked and preached at a Gospel Mission, I used the King James Bible in my teaching and preaching and did not make comments against the other versions (even though some of the other workers and clients there used them) - unless I was asked why I used the Kjv and what was the difference between them. In other words, we fellowshipped over our Bible-based beliefs. I can deal with the occasional comment stating a specific point was based off of a reading in another version (if the Kjv did not have the same reading)* as long as you are not specifically knocking the Kjv to make your point. Does that make sense? I actually think you make some great, informative points in some of these prophecy threads.

*I do realize that it may make or break the point you are making if you are honest in stating that a particular doctrine or belief is not based on the Kjv (ie. some/all here may not accept it if they cannot see it in the Kjv) - but I, for one, will respect the honesty, and appreciate you showing where you got a particular belief or doctrine from, if you can state your position in a manner that does not trample on the position of these boards. In other words, less clashing and more fellowship - assuming that is why you came here, right?

  The moderators told me to not discuss the KJVO issue any more, here, so I won't. But my main purpose is to expose false doctrines, or at least bring them to fellow Christians' attention. I realize there'll be opposition to the facts,, but shame on me if I don't present them anyway.

   For instance, in this thread, I see "pastor" Steve Anderson's stuff being debunked, so I don't need to add much. "Replacement theology" is one such false doctrine he holds.

 As for KJVO, I'll be glad to discuss it on "CARM" or "Baptist Board" or "BVDB", three sites I frequently visit.

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On 3/12/2019 at 2:31 AM, robycop3 said:

 I primarily use the NKJV, followed closely by the NASV. And, I use the KJV a little, while studying it, and as many other valid English translations, old & new, as I can find.

  I don't care for the NIV, "The Message", "Living Bible", or any other extensively/paraphrased version, nor do I believe the JWs' "New World Translation", Blanco's "Clear Word Bible", etc. are valid versions, as they depart often & greatly from any known ancient Scriptural mss.

These versions you trust are based on the phony Sinaiticus, written in Greece around 1843.  It's a complete phony and a fraud and has born rotten fruit ever since.

When one is bouncing around from version to version who then is their final authority?  

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What we have here, folks, IMO, is a wolf.

I'm sorry, there are a couple of swear words in this video. 

This next video is a 9 minute clip from a longer sermon from which pieces were taken for the above video. A lot of the 9 minutes sound good. But listen all the way to the end.

 

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http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=60066

Bank of America  just froze their church accounts because of his preaching against homosexuality.

Regardless of agreement with him, this should open some eyes. This is not the first instance either, there are several examples like this already.

The banks are owned by progressive globalists just like all big tech and social media is. Trump nor our government can change these facts. True power is held by globalist billionnaires, not governments in these last days.

End of this age

 

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That's not right at all.

In Australia a Rugby player has been threatened to lose his contract ($4million), and being banned from Australian Rugby because he tweeted that drunkards, homosexuals, liars, etc would end up in Hell unless they receive Christ. The homosexual crowd have kicked up a huge fuss and Rugby Australia has basically said they will cancel his contract, unless he retracts. He has refused.

Look up Israel Falou (I think it is spelt that way) to find the story, but it has caused a huge fuss over here.

Even the mainstream media are saying that it is wrong and that it is an attack on Christianity and freedom of expression. 

Mr falou for his part is standing firm and saying that if this is the price he pays for standing for the Lord then he will gladly pay it. Not a Baptist, but a conservative Christian man wanting to honour the Lord.

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I don't agree with the "cult" narrative, as that's a too arbitrary and subjective term. While I believe them to be a legitimate branch/camp of IFBs who have a right heart for soul winning, I do agree they are severely mistaken on key bible doctrines because if their inability to discern the differences in similar term and the covenants and testaments. Part three of this series is better than part 2. 
 

 

Edited by John Young

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John Young,

Again, another excellent video. A lot of good, sound, biblical, and historical study material was presented all the way through the video. 

Thank you for sharing it.

Alan

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10 hours ago, John Young said:

I don't agree with the "cult" narrative, as that's a too arbitrary and subjective term. While I believe them to be a legitimate branch/camp of IFBs who have a right heart for soul winning, I do agree they are severely mistaken on key bible doctrines because if their inability to discern the differences in similar term and the covenants and testaments. Part three of this series is better than part 2. 
 

 

Thanks for posting #3. I couldn't find it. LOL

I know you don't agree with the cult narrative...but I do. 😉 I've seen far too many ministries with leaders like this man (from personal experience as well as peripheral). They do become cult-like in that their leader is never to be questioned, always to be believed regardless of what the Bible might actually say (and many are supposedly soulwinners as well - soulwinning does not expunge bad doctrine, bad behavior, or deceit). That he has launched a "movement" (the newIFB) that is not biblical (just his last statement [from that 9 minute vid, let alone his other nonsense] on Israel alone proves that) pushes if from cult-like to a cult.  IMO.

~~~~~~~

That first guy quoted on the 3rd video actually describes Anderson and his followers. And Anderson described himself pretty well at the end of the video. Again, IMO.

 

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44 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

I know you don't agree with the cult narrative...but I do. 😉 

I may explain later why I think the "cult" narrative is flawed and not correct but rather we should focus on the core errors of their doctrine instead.

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3 minutes ago, John Young said:

I may explain later why I think the "cult" narrative is flawed and not correct but rather we should focus on the core errors of their doctrine instead.

That would be fine if you desire. If you do, I would probably explain why I think it's not flawed or incorrect. LOL

Yes, we should focus on the core errors of their doctrine...but keep in mind: bad doctrine is where EVERY cult that has formed came from. 😉

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22 hours ago, John Young said:

I don't agree with the "cult" narrative, as that's a too arbitrary and subjective term. While I believe them to be a legitimate branch/camp of IFBs who have a right heart for soul winning, I do agree they are severely mistaken on key bible doctrines because if their inability to discern the differences in similar term and the covenants and testaments. Part three of this series is better than part 2. 
 

 

How do they have a right heart for soulwinning when they have the wrong doctrine on who can be saved? They don’t witness to homosexuals, they just flat out condemn them and tell them they are going to hell (which they and every other lost person is going to IF they don’t repent and trust the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of salvation). Also, they deny the need for repentance - when the Bible teaches repentance AND faith. Repentance is changing your mind about your sin (ie. now believing what God’s Word says about it) and turning your heart from those sins, which will result in a change of conduct if they truly turn to Christ to save them (ie. it’s not reform or turning over a new leaf, it’s hating the sin you once loved and trusting in the Saviour to forgive and cleanse you of those sins).

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1 hour ago, Jerry said:

How do they have a right heart for soulwinning when they have the wrong doctrine on who can be saved? They don’t witness to homosexuals, they just flat out condemn them and tell them they are going to hell (which they and every other lost person is going to IF they don’t repent and trust the Lord Jesus Christ and His finished work of salvation). Also, they deny the need for repentance - when the Bible teaches repentance AND faith. Repentance is changing your mind about your sin (ie. now believing what God’s Word says about it) and turning your heart from those sins, which will result in a change of conduct if they truly turn to Christ to save them (ie. it’s not reform or turning over a new leaf, it’s hating the sin you once loved and trusting in the Saviour to forgive and cleanse you of those sins).

I think you've been mis-informed on what they teach about repentance. Also, as a rule, most do present the Gospel to everyone at the door who is willing to listen, as they believe everyone has the right to hear the gospel even if they won't believe it. They don't believe in making instant judgement call about a person they just met, unless of course that person is in their face about it. Which at that point that person probably isn't interested in hearing gospel anyway. And many of those in the NIFB do realize some are confused victims of that lifestyle indoctrination and not full fledged sodomites. In fact they often say they witness to more homosexuals door to door on accident then most do on purpose.

In regards to Repentance, they are opposed to the term "Repent of Sins for salvation" or any variant, as when it is used by Armenians and other protestants, including many reformed Baptist and some independents, does mean stop sinning for salvation (which as we know means to tun back to the law before Christ will save you and  to stay obedient to stay saved). They are opposed to any term that makes it seem as if the sinner stoping sin has any part in their salvation, as opposed to placing 100% trust in Christ alone to save and keep them saved. They do realize that the person needs to understand that they are a sinner and needs to turn to Christ in full faith for redemption of their sins (not just say a 123prayer as some claim).

Edited by John Young

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Have you been directly involved with Steven Anderson?

We had a young man who went to the US for the specific reason of joining himself to the ministry "because no one else cares about serving the Lord like they do". (This young man left a great, God serving, soulwinning church by the way. He came back to Australia and came to our church for some months before moving to NSW.)

He was with Steven Anderson for 18 months before he left. They ABSOLUTELY 100% do teach them to door to door soulwinning by the 123 method - this is first hand from one who was taught, trained, and participated in their soulwinning program. They can say they don't but this is first hand info brother. They also don't really follow up on them after telling them they should be in church on Sunday. 

By the way this fits perfectly with their claim to have seen many many thousands saved and yet they have a church which varies between as low as 60 and as high as a couple of hundred. In the 18 months this young man was there they were up and down in numbers like a toy. Partly because Anderson kicks out anyone who challenges him in any way.

Again, this is first hand account, not hearsay.

And they openly state that homosexuals can't get saved. They may "accidentally witness to mor e homosexuals", but what does that matter, for they are taught that these people are beyond redemption. This is public information.

And Anderson and his followers falsely accuse good, hardworking Pastors. I know of a guy in Qjeensland! QUEENSLAND! Half a world away, who was subjected to Anderson attacks.

My goodness, this guy is a false teacher, an Israel hater, an attacker of the brethren, and poor testimony of Christ, a user of crass and sometimes foul language, and one who is leading many on a path of at least bad testimony if not false salvation.

One day I might even express my real feelings on the matter....

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1 hour ago, DaveW said:

Have you been directly involved with Steven Anderson? I've followed his ministry over the years and have talked to him occasionally online. The few times we talked were cordial discussions even when we disagreed over points of doctrine or procedure. However, I've no personal relationship with him or ever been to his church.

We had a young man who went to the US for the specific reason of joining himself to the ministry "because no one else cares about serving the Lord like they do". (This young man left a great, God serving, soulwinning church by the way. He came back to Australia and came to our church for some months before moving to NSW.) They have definitely taped in to that persona at FWBC, as they have a solid plan in place for soulwinning. They have soul winning groups that go out every day door knocking locally, monthly trips to small towns and Indian reservations, and yearly missions trips to countries around the world. That is supplemented with the online promotion of these things as well as helping other local churches get people involved in soulwinning through their "Soulwinning Marathons" format.

He was with Steven Anderson for 18 months before he left. They ABSOLUTELY 100% do teach them to door to door soulwinning by the 123 method - this is first hand from one who was taught, trained, and participated in their soulwinning program. They can say they don't but this is first hand info brother. They also don't really follow up on them after telling them they should be in church on Sunday. I didn't say they don't use a 123 method as most if not all IFB soul winning programs do. What I meant is they are taught to look for understanding, agree meant with the points of the presentation and faith in Christ, and not just to get them to say a prayer. I can't speak to every person but that is what the leaders say to whom I've spoken to online and with whom I've gone soulwinning with.

By the way this fits perfectly with their claim to have seen many many thousands saved and yet they have a church which varies between as low as 60 and as high as a couple of hundred. In the 18 months this young man was there they were up and down in numbers like a toy. Partly because Anderson kicks out anyone who challenges him in any way. They are up to about 400 now at FWBC. As with any fast influx of people going into a ministry like his you will have people their who have major doctrine that is not compatible with the church (not just opinions) and so either they conform to church doctrine or leave. Every church I've been to had a standard of doctrine.

Again, this is first hand account, not hearsay.

And they openly state that homosexuals can't get saved. They may "accidentally witness to mor e homosexuals", but what does that matter, for they are taught that these people are beyond redemption. This is public information. I agree. I was just answering to the fact that they do witness to them at the door. Not that they believe they could be saved.

And Anderson and his followers falsely accuse good, hardworking Pastors. I know of a guy in Qjeensland! QUEENSLAND! Half a world away, who was subjected to Anderson attacks. I agree. That's not right and I don't support it. However these "attacks" are going both ways and are common among various opposing "camps" in the IFB world and much of it is over secondary issues, talking past each other, and saying the same things but in different ways, believing lies and amusing things without verification, etc. Sadly its not unique to Anderson.

My goodness, this guy is a false teacher, an Israel hater, an attacker of the brethren, and poor testimony of Christ, a user of crass and sometimes foul language, and one who is leading many on a path of at least bad testimony if not false salvation. I'm really not trying to defend what he teaches on or how he acts. Just that on salvation the "NIFB" is preaching a correct gospel and is at least trying to do it right. They are basically like Ruckmanites in that regard.

One day I might even express my real feelings on the matter.... Don't we all want to? hahaha

 

Edited by John Young

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The Lord Jesus said, "The thief cometh not, but to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Among his other heretical beliefs, after hearing Pastor Steven Anderson plainly state in the video that he out to "destroy" the Independent Baptist churches I consider him, and his followers, a thief that is out to destroy any IFB he church, pastor or missionary. Pastor Anderson, and his followers, are out to destroy, and try and kill, and steal sheep, of any IFB church they come in contact with.

I am not going to debate whether or not he is a cult leader, or the NewIFB is a cult.

In my estimation, Anderson is a worse  wolf in sheep's clothing than any cult, modernist, or liberal church in the neighbourhood. In my estimation, Anderson, and his followers, are deliberately infiltrating IFB churches in an effort to destroy them.

 

Edited by Alan
left out a word

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John you don't seem to understand the depths of this matter.

He absolutely does teach his "soulwinners" a 123 repeat after me, get em to pray and mark it down as a win. First hand remember.

And you say that these attacks go on both ways???????

Not really - people like David Cloud present evidence and talk about bad methods and wrong doctrine, not defaming a person's character like Anderson does.

And there are the various false doctrines that he holds and expresses -such as a hatred of Israel - have you read and heard some of the thing s that he says about Israel?

And what about the foul language -plenty of times he has used questionable language - terms that some would consider foul but others might not (we all need to be careful of such borderline matters), but he is on record using language that should not pass any Christian's lips let alone be used in preaching.

If you think all of these clearly demonstrable matters are small issues, then you need to reassess a few things.

If even some of them are true - and I have good confidence in all of them - but even if only some of them are true this man is not qualified to be a pastor.

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20 minutes ago, Alan said:

In my estimation, Anderson is a worse  wolf in sheep's clothing than any cult, modernist, or liberal church in the neighbourhood. In my estimation, Anderson, and his followers, are deliberately infiltrating IFB churches in an effort to destroy them.

I understand where you are coming from. In my estimation though I see it not as salvation problem but a Doctrinal one. Most of those pastors who are flocking to his group (I believe Anderson himself as well) are saved but had doctrinal questions that they were not getting answered or were given wrong answers by their dispensationalist/IFB teachers. Not getting those answers from main IFB teaching they ended up getting them from other places that had a fundamentally wrong but "simple to understand from the bible" view that skews how they see the scriptures in regards to Israel. Regardless, Whatever opinion one has about the motives of Anderson and company, the only way it will be resolved is to have clear and loving refutation of His errant doctrine. Anything else will just serve to justify what they now believe and are doing to other churches.

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1 minute ago, John Young said:

I understand where you are coming from. In my estimation though I see it not as salvation problem but a Doctrinal one. Most of those pastors who are flocking to his group (I believe Anderson himself as well) are saved but had doctrinal questions that they were not getting answered or were given wrong answers by their dispensationalist/IFB teachers. Not getting those answers from main IFB teaching they ended up getting them from other places that had a fundamentally wrong but "simple to understand from the bible" view that skews how they see the scriptures in regards to Israel. Regardless, Whatever opinion one has about the motives of Anderson and company, the only way it will be resolved is to have clear and loving refutation of His errant doctrine. Anything else will just serve to justify what they now believe and are doing to other churches.

I appreciate your answer.

If you will notice my recent studies I have been not attacking Anderson;  but, what he believes doctrinally and I have tried to show exactly why he is in error by the scripture. 

I would like to repeat what I mentioned earlier. Anderson is out to destroy any IFB church he can. In my estimation, because all IFB churches believe in soul-winning, Anderson, and his followers, are using intense soul-winning efforts to infiltrate good churches in an effort to destroy the church from within.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, DaveW said:

John you don't seem to understand the depths of this matter. I absolutely do. I also know that Anderson isn't the only one spreading errant doctrine among the churches.

He absolutely does teach his "soulwinners" a 123 repeat after me, get em to pray and mark it down as a win. First hand remember.

And you say that these attacks go on both ways??????? I do. There are many who are telling verifiable false rumors about Anderson who don't care that they are lies. While these serve to rile up the accuser's base they also alinate many who are on the fence about Anderson.

Not really - people like David Cloud present evidence and talk about bad methods and wrong doctrine, not defaming a person's character like Anderson does. I appreciate much of what David Cloud has to say but even with his booklet on Anderson there are clear problems but I won't get in to them here.

And there are the various false doctrines that he holds and expresses -such as a hatred of Israel - have you read and heard some of the thing s that he says about Israel? I have.

And what about the foul language -plenty of times he has used questionable language - terms that some would consider foul but others might not (we all need to be careful of such borderline matters), but he is on record using language that should not pass any Christian's lips let alone be used in preaching. Agreed.

If you think all of these clearly demonstrable matters are small issues, then you need to reassess a few things. I don't think they are small matters but they also need to be kept in the right perspective.

If even some of them are true - and I have good confidence in all of them - but even if only some of them are true this man is not qualified to be a pastor. Whither or not he is qualified is up to his local church, of course how his church is set up, I doubt they will be disqualifying him any time soon...

 

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To be clear, I believe Anderson and those in or friendly to the NIFB need to be called out on their errors in doctrine and practices but that it should not be mixed with unprovable rumors, assumptions about their motives, questioning their salvation, or personal ad hominem attacks to their person. Their error will not go away with sharp rebuke either as it is a doctrinal thing that is causing their errors and not mere disobedience to things they already know to do. The only thing that will work is clear and patient biblical teaching to their questions, regardless of how we are treated in response.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Edited by John Young

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Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

Which I do by the way. I rarely speak to anyone about Steven Anderson, but when the subject comes up I will warn.

But he has been spoken to by many, both gently and harshly and he refuses any instruction.

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Most folks here know of my position regarding allowing our congregations to be influenced by forces outside of our own local church. In this respect I cannot help but think that there could  be no NFIB "movement" if the pastors of our local churches were not allowing themselves to be influenced as "followers of men" rather than followers of Jesus. If we are feeding our own flock properly there is no reason for them to look outside of their own local church. If our people are taught properly they will reject error themselves just as a mirror reflects a true image of that which is placed in front of it. The Steven Andersons of this world could have no influence outside of their own congregations without pastors and other church leaders being influenced by them. Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

Now someone might argue that those who are influenced by the errors of others can in turn influence our members from within our congregations. Again, if we are following Jesus and not men, we will be teaching and preaching truth and correct doctrine. If we are doing this under the leadership of The Holy Spirit, then the truth will prevail and serve to "weed out" possible trouble makers. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

It is difficult for some pastors, as well as church members to go through this process,  but preaching and adhering to the truth will result in separation, as it should in order to maintain the following verse: 
Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

What I have said above could be encapsulated in this one verse: Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

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