Paul The Heretic

[Washed Clean]

Ok, first of all, don;t flame me, attack me or give me any more warnings but let me tell you about my history. I got "Saved" when I was 30 after my dad died. I spent the next 15 years in a baptist church and ultimately felt God was calling me into full time ministry. I attended bible college for 4 and a half years but gradually doubts about what I was being taught at college, at church and the way so called "Christians" from my church treated me began to creep in. As a Christian I always had a strong dislike for Paul, actually it was more of a hatred even when I was preaching and at bible college I couldn't stand the bloke. To me he embodied everything Jesus wasn't. Jesus came to save us by grace, he paid the ultimate sacrifice and IN HIS WORDS. Paid for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Then along comes Paul....Don't marry, don't eat this, don;t eat that, women should be silent,, don't dress a certain way, almost everything Paul did and said was in direct contradiction to the message of Jesus. It was as though for Paul salvation by grace wasn't good enough, he had to go and pile on layer upon layer of law JUST LIKE THE JEWS DID. It still amazes me that Christian even bother to give Paul the time of day. To me is prOBably one of the most evil dangerous destructive men in all of history. I imagine Jesus would be absolutely devastated by the damage Paul has done to poor fools living their lives under constant bondage. Let the flaming begin.

[Salyan]

Wow. Just wow. I can't in all honesty understand how anyone can 1) accept the Jesus of the Bible without accepting His words through Paul and 2) think Paul sought to put people under the yoke of the law. Romans 3-5, anyone? Galatians? Smh.

[Washed Clean]

Thanks for your response, I appreciate your honesty and respect your opinion but I have to wonder how do you not see this ? Why should anyone have to accept Jesus's words through Paul, I don;t believe Paul was even an apostle. I think the words of Jesus stand for themselves without any help from Paul and given Paul's words stand in direct contrast to those of Jesus I don't see why we should. I once preached a sermon based on the last words of Jesus he said "Father forgive them for they know what they are doing" Being a Christian means you must believe that Jesus has authority to forgive sin..yes ? and also that if Jesus stands on our behalf and says to the father "Lord fogive so and so for thier sins because I took the penalty" then you must as a Christian believe that that person is forgiven.....EVEN IF THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR NOT,,,,,,,,that is if they believe the mixed up distorted version of Jesus' truth as espoused by Christians or not. It is right there in black and white FATHER FORGIVE THEM......The sermon was saying we have no idea about the depth and grace of Jesus, he works in ways we cannot fathom and this silly little "Say a sinners prayer and be a good Christian" isn't even on his radar......you should have seen the ridiculous responses I got from so called pastors in my church saying Jesus was referiing to such nonsens as the destruction of Jerusulem in 70 AD..................no he was being very clear as he left this earth ..Father forgive them if they don't know me or not. I paid the price as you demanded.

[Alimantado]

Why should anyone have to accept Jesus's words through Paul, I don't believe Paul was even an apostle. I think the words of Jesus stand for themselves without any help from Paul and given Paul's words stand in direct contrast to those of Jesus I don't see why we should.

And yet a couple of days ago you made an appeal to me a Christian 'brother' by using the words of Paul. See >here. You were clearly happy to use the words of Paul in the name of Christianity on that occasion.
 

...you should have seen the ridiculous responses I got from so called pastors in my church saying Jesus was referiing to such nonsens as the destruction of Jerusulem in 70 AD..................no he was being very clear as he left this earth ..Father forgive them if they don't know me or not. I paid the price as you demanded.

 

Your view that we are forgiven whether we believe in Jesus or not totally contradicts >what you said a few days ago when you applauded someone for saying that if a person does not repent and believe in Jesus Christ they will go to hell.

 

Oh yeah, and surprise surprise you and 'A nice Bible name' come out singing from exactly the same hymn sheet on the thread about whether babies go to hell.

 

Two folk register at the same time, both have silly anecdotal stories about how they've seen the term you-know-what coined innocently in church, and both at the same time start posting about how they don't believe in the doctrine of hell and they think Jesus's message was that sinners are saved whether they know him or not. What a coincidence...

[Washed Clean]

Thanks for your opinion Alimantado, I appreciate your response. I was actually being sarcastic regarding that person who is writing to other churches and telling other Christians that they are going to Hell. Do you really not see the arrogance in that ??? And I wish you would stop linking me to the other person I am trying to have an honest debate here.

[Alimantado]

I was actually being sarcastic regarding that person who is writing to other churches and telling other Christians that they are going to Hell. Do you really not see the arrogance in that ???

 

Whether I agree or disagree with that guy is irrelevant. But since you've now admitted you were being sarcastic, let's look at your conduct in that post.

 

If in the next paragraph after your 'sarcastic' comment you had revealed you were being sarcastic and explained why (i.e. because you think the other guy is wrong), I would have thought to myself well clearly this guy likes using sarcasm to make his points but at least he's being honest about what his points are.

 

But what you did was write an endorsement of the other guy's view at a time when you hadn't revealed you were against it, so it was pretty much impossible for anyone to work out you weren't being serious. And then you sat back and let other people 'like' the post and respond to it as if it was genuine.

 

And that just shows that you're really out to mock IFB's in general on here and it is another example of why I say you are operating in bad faith.

 

So of your other posts, which have been genuine and which have been fake? Is Fireproof really your favourite film ever, given that Kirk Cameron is one of those whose views you clearly hold in contempt?

[John81]

It's not opinion that Paul's writing in our Bible is Scripture inspired by God Himself. This wasn't compiled by some group of men, but was well established fact even at the time some of the Apostles were still alive. Paul's writings which we have in our Bible have been known to be and accepted as the inspired Word of God for about 2,000 years.

 

False teachings and the attempted destruction of Scripture because someone hates Paul and his writings is totally incompatible with the teachings of Christ, clearly indicates one is operating in the flesh and not the Spirit, and clearly serves the purposes of the devil.

[A nice Bible name]

Very insightful presentation of some deep theological facts Runny, haven't heard such an indisputable argument since Sgt Schultz tried to explain the presence of a B.17 bomber in barracks 3.

 

By the way,like you I am also sure that WC is in league with the devil....I suspect his username actually stand for "Water Closet" which is of course profane and offensive.

[John81]

God is not mocked, lest you repent you will reap the whirlwind.

[Genevanpreacher]

So, Paul contradicts Christ?

 

No, Paul gives pointed facts about how to live as a Christian.

Most of the things Paul says are not 'how to get to heaven', but 'how to live your life to the fullest' - safely and successfully.

 

That is all.

 

By the way, I am not saying this in a mean way, but you sound like an immature 'christ follower' of some sort.

And going to 'college'  didn't seem to help you, so move on to the fact that God spent thousands of years and multitudes

of preachers and believers to get HIS words to us.

 

Paul is a teacher. God used him to teach. And with the wisdom God gave Paul, Paul had answers for all of us

as to 'what do I do in this situation?' type of concerns.

 

The concerns of life.

[John81]

If one claims Paul is a wrong, his words contradict Christ and he can't be trusted then one must believe that Christ was wrong to call Saul to Him, to turn him into Paul the Apostle, and to communicate with him, protect him and guide him from conversion onward as recorded in the book of Acts; written by Luke, not Paul. Therefore, if Paul be a false teacher that would mean Christ made a mistake in calling Paul and supporting Paul, and if Christ made a mistake, that means He's flawed, imperfect, untrustworthy and couldn't possibly be God. Now the entire New Testament must be discarded and we best become good practicing Jews in accord with the Old Testament which must really be the Current Testament and we must join the Jews in awaiting the first coming of the Christ.

[ThePilgrim]

The Jesuits are coming, are coming!  No they aren't!  They are here!  

This whole Paul the heretic or whatever sounds a lot like Romish talk to me.

This whole bit about "I love Jesus but the bible is a lie" has just been so overworked by those who hate God that I am surprised anyone would engage in a discussion with anyone so so enamored with the position.

The man, if it is one, is OBviously a TROLL looking for a fight.  Don't give him one but just tell him to go away.

[Jordan Kurecki]

Someone OBviously hasn't read Romans or Galatians or Colossians.

[HappyChristian]

Aaaaannnd this thread is closed. WC and ANBN, you are "both" treading on thin ice.