How Old Is The Earth

[Ukulelemike]

Entropy and God.

entropy, God and gravity. It has been observed, as I understand it, to bend with the grvaity of stars and planets. It has also been slowede and stopped completely in the lab, and stored, then released. so no, light speed isn't constant, or at least there's enough evidence to prove it isn't reliable as a constant.

[LindaR]

Entropy and God.

Would someone please define "entropy" in understandable terms?

[AVBibleBeliever]

I chose to believe in a gap.  If you do not agree that is fine but let's not attack each other for my personal view.  the issue of a Gap is a non-essential issue and is of no cause to divide or hurt our relationship as Christians.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AVBibleBeliever

[AVBibleBeliever]

you cannot have a beginning of a day without light. and that did not come until after the earth and the heaven were created in verse three.  The first day of the six day work of God started in verse 3 not verse one.

 

The only cross reference of without form and void is about a place that had been built and then had been destroyed and it was Jerusalem.  Get out your concordance and search for yourselves to see if this is true to the scriptures.

 

A key thing to remember is that the Bible does not contain Everything in it.  The Bible has only what we as men need for life and godliness (1Peter)  There is very little shared in the word of God about things that took place from everlasting and to everlasting.  With this I mean before the spirit is found moving upon the waters in Gen 1:2(pl) and after the earth and heaven is destroyed and the New Jerusalem comes to the earth Revelation (21).

 

We know very little about cherubs, Cherubims, Seraphim's, Archangles and angles.  these were created before the six day work of God here on the earth.

 

I know that this is a heated debate for some of you but please try and remain civil. and remember this is not an issue that affects our salvation if we agree or disagree.

[John81]

Picking up from the other thread to this one...what's hard to understand about the Genesis account of creation? If we are to see a gap God could make that clear, yet the wording in Genesis clearly lays out a literal six day creation.

 

You seem to be assuming many things in the post above and then trying to fit them into some gap which isn't presented.

 

It's true, God doesn't tell us everything, and it's also true (Deuteronomy 29:29) that we are to give our attention to the things God has told us and not to concern ourselves with what He hasn't.

[TheSword]

Before I go to the trouble of explaining in detail why I believe the Gap Theory and all permutations of it are completely inconsistent with the Bible, I would like to first ask a question:

 

Why do you believe, or need to believe, that there was gap?

 

I ask because the view that the earth was only a few thousands years old was nearly universal until the 18th century (when evolutionary theory and uniformitarian geology began to seek ways to explain existence without God)? Is it to harmonize Scripture with current scientific theory on origins and age of the earth? Or because you disagree with the historical/traditional interpretation of Scripture?

[candlelight]

I always keep this simple Scripture in mind.

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." ~ Romans 10:17

[prophet1]

How old the the earth? 6,842 years. How do I know this? My guess is as good as any other!!!!

Close, but no cigar.
The age of the earth is calculable, due to the Scriptures.
We are right around 6,240, now.

Anishinaabe

[Salyan]

I know that this is a heated debate for some of you but please try and remain civil. and remember this is not an issue that affects our salvation if we agree or disagree.

 

That depends (the salvation bit, I mean). A gap theory that allows for death before sin (which some believe - don't know if you do, but that is the classic theory) completely negates the physical penalty for sin and plays havoc with the whole need for salvation. 
 

[John81]

Ussher, who was once widely accepted by Baptists and most other Christians, so much so that his timeline was once included within many copies of the KJB, dated the creation beginning in 4004 BC.

[heartstrings]

That depends (the salvation bit, I mean). A gap theory that allows for death before sin (which some believe - don't know if you do, but that is the classic theory) completes negates the physical penalty for sin and plays havoc with the whole need for salvation. 
 

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4....remember, the "serpent" lied on God and lied to eve.....he was ALREADY a liar.

 

Who was "the serpent" in Genesis 3:1-14?

Is he the same person/entity/being as in Revelation 12:9?

If he is "the devil" "satan", spoken of in Revelation 12:9, then "Sin" had already been committed before Adam and Eve because Lucifer/Satan/the serpent had already done it.
 

Edited February 18, 2014 by heartstrings

[beameup]

If the whole of creation is subject to corruption, then light is as well, and "light years" are not a reliable measure of the age of the universe.

Even "carbon 14" dating is corrupt.  Entropy is decay, decay is death, albeit a slow death.

Edited February 18, 2014 by beameup

[TheSword]

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4....remember, the "serpent" lied on God and lied to eve.....he was ALREADY a liar.

 

Who was "the serpent" in Genesis 3:1-14?

Is he the same person/entity/being as in Revelation 12:9?

If he is "the devil" "satan", spoken of in Revelation 12:9, then "Sin" had already been committed before Adam and Eve because Lucifer/Satan/the serpent had already done it.
 

 

Yes, but....the salvation of man is tied to the sin of man, not the sin of angels. That Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve who subsequently introduced sin to mankind, has really no bearing on our doctrine of salvation. There is also no need to insert the fall of Satan into the Creation week. Gen 3 does not specify any period of time between the creation of man and the Fall of man. All that can be definitively said is that there was no sin in the first 6 days (Gen 1:31) and that the Fall happened in the first 130 years after Creation because the first length of time mentioned is that Adam was 130 yrs old when Seth was born (Gen 5:3). Therefore, the events of Gen 3-4 (the Fall and Cain & Abel) took place sometime in the first 130 years after God finished creating. We're not told how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden nor how much time passed between the expulsion and the births of Cain and Abel. The Fall could have happned on Day 8 of Year 1 or it could have happned on Day 245 of Year 54 or maybe Day 37 of Year 32. There is plenty of time for Satan to have fallen between Creation week and the Fall of man without reading it into any part of Genesis 1.

[heartstrings]

Before I go to the trouble of explaining in detail why I believe the Gap Theory and all permutations of it are completely inconsistent with the Bible, I would like to first ask a question:

 

Why do you believe, or need to believe, that there was gap?

 

I ask because the view that the earth was only a few thousands years old was nearly universal until the 18th century (when evolutionary theory and uniformitarian geology began to seek ways to explain existence without God)? Is it to harmonize Scripture with current scientific theory on origins and age of the earth? Or because you disagree with the historical/traditional interpretation of Scripture?

Simple, I believe it's because of people's need to explain the "dinosaurs". Just last weekend, in Sunday School class, our teacher brought up the question about the dinosaurs. One man spoke up and explained that "Leviathan" was a dinosaur. Another man, looked at me and nodded, to which I only responded by saying "I'm not getting into this one". But I will here. We don't know what "Leviathan" or even "Behemoth" were, and while I believe that entertaining a theory of a "gap" could be wrong, stating as fact that Leviathan was a dinosaur, to me is just plain dishonest; because we don't know.what it was. An old IFB pastor of mine called the "gap theory" the "gap fact". That's just a s wrong unless he had scripture to back it up.

Edited February 18, 2014 by heartstrings

[heartstrings]

Yes, but....the salvation of man is tied to the sin of man, not the sin of angels.  Yes, true That Satan fell before he tempted Adam and Eve who subsequently introduced sin to mankind, has really no bearing on our doctrine of salvation.  Yes, no one said it did. There is also no need to insert the fall of Satan into the Creation week. Gen 3 does not specify any period of time between the creation of man and the Fall of man. All that can be definitively said is that there was no sin in the first 6 days (Gen 1:31) and that the Fall happened in the first 130 years after Creation because the first length of time mentioned is that Adam was 130 yrs old when Seth was born (Gen 5:3). Therefore, the events of Gen 3-4 (the Fall and Cain & Abel) took place sometime in the first 130 years after God finished creating. We're not told how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden nor how much time passed between the expulsion and the births of Cain and Abel. The Fall could have happned on Day 8 of Year 1 or it could have happned on Day 245 of Year 54 or maybe Day 37 of Year 32. There is plenty of time for Satan to have fallen between Creation week and the Fall of man without reading it into any part of Genesis 1. Possible, I suppose