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    • By 1Timothy115 in Devotionals
         11
      Psalms 119:1-8                                         Sep. 5 - Oct. 2, 2019
      1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
      2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
      3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
      4 Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
      7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
      8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.
      The following verse stood out to me...
      5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
      At first glance it seemed to me this person’s soul is poured out with intense desire to have God’s direction in keeping His Word.
      I made a small wood fire in our backyard for my granddaughter, Julia, since she would be staying overnight with us. My wife and Julia stayed outside at the fire for about half an hour. Then, I found myself alone to watch the fire die out on a particularly lovely evening. So I took my verse from above and began to repeat it for memorization. As I repeated the verse, I tried to contemplate the words and apply them to what I was seeing around me. 
      The moon and stars were out now peering through the scattered clouds above.
      [Genesis 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. Genesis 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, Genesis 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.]
      Thought 1         
      The moon has stayed his course since the day God created him, also the stars, obeying the statutes directed by God from the first day they were created. Can you imagine God’s direction to the Moon and stars, “moon you will have a path through the sky above the earth, stars you will occupy the firmament above the moon and be clearly visible in the cloudless night sky.”
      Then, the trees, grass, even the air we breathe obey the statues God gave them from the beginning. None of these creations have souls, none have hearts, none have intelligence, but they all observe God’s statutes, His instructions for their limited time on earth.
      Thought 2
      What if we were like the moon, stars, trees, grass, or the other creations which have no soul? We would be directed to keep God’s statutes without choosing to keep them. This is not the image of God, there would be no dominion over other creatures, or over the earth. We would not be capable of experiencing the joy and peace of learning the love of God
      Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
      Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
      Thought 3 (October 2, 2019)
      Is the psalmist pleading God to force God’s statutes to become the man’s ways? No, he is speaking of his own failure in keeping God’s statutes and his desire to keep them, very much like Paul in Romans 7:14-25.
      God doesn’t work through force to turn men from their ways that they would desire His statutes or desire God Himself. Men must reject (repent) put aside his own ways and voluntarily seek God and His statutes.

How Old Is The Earth

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AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I know there are differences of opinions on this subject so let's not lose fellowship over this.  This is just my own work through the Bible.

 

How Old is the Earth?

 

In order to get a true Idea of how old the Earth is we must compare spiritual things with spiritual. God’s word shows us a creation of the earth where the morning stars sang at it’s creation.

 

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now this would put the creation of Angelic beings like arch-angels, angles, cherubims, seraphim and cherubs before the earth’s creation. There are some who puts the creation of these during the six days work of God which is after the second beginning of Proverbs 8:23 during the time of Genesis 1:3-31.

Proverbs 8:22-24 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.  I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.  When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

 

I believe Proverbs 8:22 – 24 gives us the Chronology of the creation of the Earth, depths and Fountains of Water.  There is one creation and two beginnings, One that is the Beginning of God’s way and the other is the beginning of his creation process prior to Gen 1:2 & 3 which could have taken place far before the Gen 1:2 events because what ever it was it took place after the Fountains of Water were created and as these fountains contained the water prior to some Judgement event which I link to Lucifer, a cherub who was a morning star and a son of God who was created before the earth was. Because in Gen 1:2 we find the water not in fountains but covering the face of the deep.

 

Both beginnings link together but what is unique in Proverbs there is no firmament mentioned only depths (heaven) which describes the vastness and quality not the quantity.

 

Also, The morning stars, in the context of Job, have a connection with the original creation of the earth in second beginning point of Proverbs 8:23 and not Genesis 1:3-31 and in order for them to be there at that creation they had to be made or created before the earth and not after. You will also see in verse 8 of Job that Job is asked, Job 38:8-11 who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling-band for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,  And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Which puts this portion if it is chronologically preserved sometime after Gen1:2 but before Gen1:3. Now remember the some want to connect this with Genesis 1:3-31 not before. the some want to make day one start at verse one of Genesis and not after the light appeared and a 23hr.56min day was established. Please don’t get this wrong I don’t believe in Evolution, or a pre-Adamic race of humanoids, I believe the fossil record is that of Noah’s flood and not before.

 

Now we need to ask a question what is a swaddeling band?  A swaddling-band is something that absorbs the water of a birth it is placed round about the birthing stool to keep the water from going everywhere (context of verse 8). Verse 10 holds a key look closely, and “brake up IT my decreed place” the it is the word of God a creation of something that was broken, it was a decreed place. I believe it was the fountains abounding with water found in Proverbs 8:24. Something caused God’s decreed place for water (in fountains) to be broken, something that would not go against Gods nature or his Holiness. that something I believe was his justice and execution of his judgement upon Lucifer and the his angels all of which falls under God’s wisdom. Once they were dealt with, God turned to the deep and we find him moving upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2. but to be fair thick darkness being made for it could also allude to the firmament But I think it refers to the darkness that went forth at his justice and judgement of Lucifer’s sin. But the Morning stars in Job 38:7are not connected to this event of water that breaks forth, but to the creation of the Earth in its original form before the breaking forth of Gods Decreed place and a thick darkness a swaddling band is made.

 

You see when I kept the context of Job 38:7-10 and rightly divided I was able to show that the Morning stars were connected to the earth’s original creation as chronologically laid out in Proverbs 8:22-24, before the breaking forth of God’s decreed place, this breaking God’s decreed place is representative of two things 1) the release of water from the fountains of which they were first contained in Prov 8:24(a decreed place) and 2) the angles that left their first estate also broke God’s decreed place for them.

 

So having considered the spiritual with the spiritual it is safe to say the earth is older than 6,000 years. But I would not label it millions of years before the six day work of God found in Gen1:3-31. It would be hard to say how long for the 24/7 we are used to was not established until Gen 1:3-5. Measurement of time before that was connected with eternity not our 23hr.56min seven day week 365 day year or the 28 day moon cycle. Our minds do not understand nor comprehend eternity or from everlasting as a time measurement but if I had to guess I would say no more than one general dispensation of our Bible which would be 1,000 years, and no less than a day according to the time measurement God established for man in Gen 1:3-5 2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  Exodus 20:11 is speaking of God making the earth habitable for man after a flood of judgement had left it uninhabitable this was the six day work of God which starts at Genesis 1:3-31. The key there to understand the Exodus 20:11 verse is the words “six days” these are six 23hr 56 min days, no days existed as we know days until after the first day established in Gen1:3-5. Even a casual reading of Gen 1 will tell you that the heaven and earth were created before the establishment of Days, and the grammar both of Hebrew and English does not indicated that Gen1:1, 2 were part of the first day.

 

Remember IF the earth was created void and dark and incomplete what were the morning stars singing about? This is key to understanding that the heaven and the earth were created from sometime from everlasting,. Days were set up after Gen 1:2 the heaven and earth were already created, the six days that follow were to make the earth habitable for man whom God created on the sixth day.  By this we know that the earth is older than 6,000 and that the system of man setup in Genesis 1 is no more that 7,000 year old.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

#1 "Sons of God", in the Word of God, are specifically defined as being believers. (John 1:12. Romans 8:14, 8:19, 1John 3:1, 3:2

#2 Angels cannot be "sons of God". (Hebrews 1:5)

#3 Lucifer was a "son of the morning" not morning star.(Isaiah 14:12),

#4 The term "morning star"(singular) represents Jesus. (Rev. 22:16)

#5 "Morning stars"(plural) sang when a "cornerstone" was laid.........

 

 

The "heartstrings theory"

((******Theory********))

In Job 38 the "morning stars" could include the 12 disciples(except Judas Iscariot) and "all the sons of God" are all believers from all time, past present and future. The "cornerstone" is Jesus Christ, laid in Zion, and Bro. Job, being also a "son of God", was there shouting with the rest of them(including us) when it happened because it is a future event which, from God's perspective, has already happened.......AND the reason Job couldn't "declare" as to the question "where was thou" was because Job, did not have that "understanding" yet because Job did not have the complete Word of God as we do.        remember........ theory.... and here are more verses which may refer to it..

.Isa 51:16

And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
 

Isa 28:28

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
 

Eph 2:20

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Edited by heartstrings
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Oh yes, none of us know the age of the earth. Some say that between Genesis1:1 and Genesis 1:2 , that God cast Lucifer to the earth, which contaminated it, turning it to a formless wasteland and creating Hell at the same time.  The Lord Jesus, being the Creator, said he "beheld" Satan fall like lighting to the earth.

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Exodus 20:11 For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made HEAVEN and EARTH, the SEA, and ALL THAT IN THEM IS, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:11 completely destroys the "old Earth" theory.  The Earth was created within that six day period... on the first day.

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Exodus 20:11 For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made HEAVEN and EARTH, the SEA, and ALL THAT IN THEM IS, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exodus 20:11 completely destroys the "old Earth" theory.  The Earth was created within that six day period... on the first day.

Isn't "created" referring to something made from nothing and "made" used when something is made from something that exists already? Such as Adam made from the dust?

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Even if they are not interchangeable, there is no indication of a gap in genesis ch 1, and there is no need of one.

Genesis 1
 1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

 2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

 3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

In the beginning God created heaven and earth, then description of that heaven and earth.
at vs 5 He tells us it was the end of the first day.

Don't see what is so hard about it.
No gap is stated, no gap is implied, the language structure actually doesn't allow a gap, and there is no Biblical need for a gap here.

Why do people want to put a gap where God so plainly does not indicate one?

It is not even that God is silent about it - there is simply no biblical nor linguistic room for a gap.

Yes God doesn't say "By the way there is no Gap here", but that is because there is no need.

it would be like saying that my wife could be someone else's wife because all I said is "She's my wife" but I didn't state categorically that she is not anyone else's wife.
There is no need: the statement "She's my wife" is a complete statement and implies that she is not anyone else's wife.

God's statements with regard to creation are complete and there is no need for Him to rule out a gap - the lack of Gap is implied in the stating of six days, the very words and syntax used, and simply in the information given.

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Isn't "created" referring to something made from nothing and "made" used when something is made from something that exists already? Such as Adam made from the dust?

Gen 6:7 the Lord said He "created from the face of the earth" Adam.

Gen 2:22 says woman was "made"

Gen 5:1 calls man "created" and "made"

 

Our Lord used them interchangeably.

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"It is not even that God is silent about it - there is simply no biblical nor linguistic room for a gap."  I would agree with the biblical; but the 'linguistic' is way above this ole country boy's head.

 

5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    If we looked real - real - hard we could find a gap between evening and morning (nighttime) and between morning and evening (afternoon)!!!! Now we have to deal with 3 gap theories. :eureka:  I think I need a vacation.

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AVBibleBeliever said:

 

Also, The morning stars, in the context of Job, have a connection with the original creation of the earth in second beginning point of Proverbs 8:23 and not Genesis 1:3-31 and in order for them to be there at that creation they had to be made or created before the earth and not after. You will also see in verse 8 of Job that Job is asked, Job 38:8-11 who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?  When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddling-band for it, And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,  And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Which puts this portion if it is chronologically preserved sometime after Gen1:2 but before Gen1:3. Now remember the some want to connect this with Genesis 1:3-31 not before. the some want to make day one start at verse one of Genesis and not after the light appeared and a 23hr.56min day was established. Please don’t get this wrong I don’t believe in Evolution, or a pre-Adamic race of humanoids, I believe the fossil record is that of Noah’s flood and not before.

 

Now we need to ask a question what is a swaddeling band?  A swaddling-band is something that absorbs the water of a birth it is placed round about the birthing stool to keep the water from going everywhere (context of verse 8). Verse 10 holds a key look closely, and “brake up IT my decreed place” the it is the word of God a creation of something that was broken, it was a decreed place. I believe it was the fountains abounding with water found in Proverbs 8:24. Something caused God’s decreed place for water (in fountains) to be broken, something that would not go against Gods nature or his Holiness. that something I believe was his justice and execution of his judgement upon Lucifer and the his angels all of which falls under God’s wisdom. Once they were dealt with, God turned to the deep and we find him moving upon the face of the waters in Genesis 1:2. but to be fair thick darkness being made for it could also allude to the firmament But I think it refers to the darkness that went forth at his justice and judgement of Lucifer’s sin. But the Morning stars in Job 38:7are not connected to this event of water that breaks forth, but to the creation of the Earth in its original form before the breaking forth of Gods Decreed place and a thick darkness a swaddling band is made.

I think you may be over-thinking this. this is not so much speaking of the ses, but the earth as a whole. The Lord mentions the seas, with the boundaries He placed upon them, and then moves to the clouds which incircle the earth "as a swaddling band"-the clouds circle the earth tightly, and contain water in them-they hold the moisture that evaporates from the waters on the earth, so its not lost, but later returns again to earth. The whole thing is about the creation, nothing more. Isn't this what a swaddling band does? Absorbs moisture?

 

"Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.  (Earth is the subject of this, the creation of the planet)

Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? (the sea is mentioned but in relation to its bounds upon the earth)
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,   (The clouds absorb moisture, which is then rained again on the earth)
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,  ("It" is the waters, broke up the land and put waters upon it, in their boundaries, bars and doors)
And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?" (Again, the boundaries of the seas are set, but earth is stil the base subject)
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Entropy and God.

entropy, God and gravity. It has been observed, as I understand it, to bend with the grvaity of stars and planets. It has also been slowede and stopped completely in the lab, and stored, then released. so no, light speed isn't constant, or at least there's enough evidence to prove it isn't reliable as a constant.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I chose to believe in a gap.  If you do not agree that is fine but let's not attack each other for my personal view.  the issue of a Gap is a non-essential issue and is of no cause to divide or hurt our relationship as Christians.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

you cannot have a beginning of a day without light. and that did not come until after the earth and the heaven were created in verse three.  The first day of the six day work of God started in verse 3 not verse one.

 

The only cross reference of without form and void is about a place that had been built and then had been destroyed and it was Jerusalem.  Get out your concordance and search for yourselves to see if this is true to the scriptures.

 

A key thing to remember is that the Bible does not contain Everything in it.  The Bible has only what we as men need for life and godliness (1Peter)  There is very little shared in the word of God about things that took place from everlasting and to everlasting.  With this I mean before the spirit is found moving upon the waters in Gen 1:2(pl) and after the earth and heaven is destroyed and the New Jerusalem comes to the earth Revelation (21).

 

We know very little about cherubs, Cherubims, Seraphim's, Archangles and angles.  these were created before the six day work of God here on the earth.

 

I know that this is a heated debate for some of you but please try and remain civil. and remember this is not an issue that affects our salvation if we agree or disagree.

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Picking up from the other thread to this one...what's hard to understand about the Genesis account of creation? If we are to see a gap God could make that clear, yet the wording in Genesis clearly lays out a literal six day creation.

 

You seem to be assuming many things in the post above and then trying to fit them into some gap which isn't presented.

 

It's true, God doesn't tell us everything, and it's also true (Deuteronomy 29:29) that we are to give our attention to the things God has told us and not to concern ourselves with what He hasn't.

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