Near Confrontation During House To House

[prophet1]

There is no mention of "Holy Spirit conviction" in the Scriptures.


Jn 8:9
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

This is the only appearance of the word in The Word.

[John81]

There are so many being given false assurance of heaven due to unbiblical, over simplistic, say it and be done with it, means of presenting "salvation".

 

So many people are walking around today with the false belief they will go to heaven when they die because they repeated a prayer, answered some guys questions rightly and they prayed for him, they were baptized, or they pray with a TV preacher every week.

 

All too often the false assurance these people have serves to harden their hearts to the Gospel, leaving them worse off than before.

 

What an amazing thing that a couple dozen "soul winners" from Church On The Corner each claim to have led over a hundred people to a "decision for Christ" yet not a one of those over 2,000 people who were supposedly saved are in that church. Moreover, those people are not to be found in any other church around either. That should be a very clear signal that something is very wrong with the "soul winning" those folks are engaged in.

 

Meanwhile, Joe shares the biblical Gospel with folks he meets each day. After a year of this two of those people are saved, baptized and being built up in Christ as members of Joe's church.

 

Joe's "numbers" look dismal compared to the Corner church folks "results". However, what serves the Lord, seeing two lost souls saved or declaring over 2,000 lost souls to be okay with God when they are as lost as ever?

 

Genuine salvation results in changed lives.

[Anon]

This is why, personally, I dislike door to door and think men only should do it. Can't convince hubby yet though,

[2bLikeJesus]

There is no mention of "Holy Spirit conviction" in the Scriptures.


Jn 8:9
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

This is the only appearance of the word in The Word.

 

First of all, conscience is nothing more than the manifestation of the law that is written into the hearts of all men. It is not the Holy Spirit.  

 

Now to address your claim that there is no mention of the Holy Spirit conviction I will provide just a few of the host of scriptures.

 

John 6:44 (KJV)
⁴⁴  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

John 6:63 (KJV)
⁶³  It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

John 6:65 (KJV) 

⁶⁵  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

 

John 4:21-24 (KJV) 

²¹  Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
²²  Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
²³  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
²⁴  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

Ephesians 4:4 (KJV)
⁴  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 

 

Romans 8:30 (KJV)
³⁰  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 

 

2 Corinthians 3:18 (KJV)
¹⁸  But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. 

 

Ephesians 2:21-22 (KJV)
²¹  In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
²²  In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 

 

1 Peter 1:21-23 (KJV)
²¹  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
²²  Seeing ye have purified your souls in OBeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
²³  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 

 

1 John 5:6 (KJV)
⁶  This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 

 

There are many more but if this post gets much longer, no one will read it.

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

[Guest]

I walked down the driveway to the house. A gentleman was outside. I greeted him and offered him the tract. He said "get off my property or I will call the police" , I said "yes sir" then to my back as I was leaving he yelled at me "I said get off my property or I will call the police" (he might have said "I'm calling the police"), ..... since I was already walking ... I stopped, turned around, said, "yes sir" ... and turned back around while he was yelling "I'm calling the police" and calmly walked off his property. What was my legal responsibility? Anybody suggest how to handle a situation like that?

Thanks.

I had two tell me very similar things last year (not the police part) but to get off the property and don't bother coming back.

[prophet1]

First of all, conscience is nothing more than the manifestation of the law that is written into the hearts of all men. It is not the Holy Spirit.

Now to address your claim that there is no mention of the Holy Spirit conviction I will provide just a few of the host of scriptures.

John 6:44 (KJV)
⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:63 (KJV)
⁶³ It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 6:65 (KJV)
⁶⁵ And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

John 4:21-24 (KJV)
²¹ Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
²² Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
²³ But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
²⁴ God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Ephesians 4:4 (KJV)
⁴ There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Romans 8:30 (KJV)
³⁰ Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (KJV)
¹⁸ But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Ephesians 2:21-22 (KJV)
²¹ In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
²² In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:21-23 (KJV)
²¹ Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
²² Seeing ye have purified your souls in OBeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
²³ Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 John 5:6 (KJV)
⁶ This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

There are many more but if this post gets much longer, no one will read it.

Bro. Garry
In His will. By His power. For His glory.

Too bad that you missed the point.

The word "conviction" means : 'to be declared guilty by a judge', and isn't found once in any of the verses in your long post.

So if you meant "leading", when you mistakenly said "conviction", than I agree with your post.

Remember, a convict is someone who serves a sentence, not someone who follows God.

[2bLikeJesus]

Too bad that you missed the point.

The word "conviction" means : 'to be declared guilty by a judge', and isn't found once in any of the verses in your long post.

So if you meant "leading", when you mistakenly said "conviction", than I agree with your post.

Remember, a convict is someone who serves a sentence, not someone who follows God.

 

conviction

 

/kənˈvɪkʃən/

noun 

1.

the state or appearance of being convinced

2.

a fixed or firmly held belief, opinion, etc

3.

the act of convincing

4.

the act or an instance of convicting or the state of being convicted

5.

carry conviction, to be convincing.

 

Your using the 4th definition only, while I use the term conviction just as I would when finding a principle in God's word, I form a "conviction" (definition 2).  The Holy Spirits "leading" as you state it, I use the Holy Spirit convicting us (definition 3) until we attain definition number 1, the state of being convinced.

 

I can't find a single reference in God's word where "conviction" or even "convict" was ever used.  When I use the term, it is a man made term that is not found anywhere in the bible, and I am using it according to it's primary definitions.  

 

That said, I still hold to my belief that the Holy Spirit office is for conviction of the heart to a belief or conviction (fixed or firmly held belief)  in the God's Word.

 

Bro. Garry 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2014 by 2bLikeJesus

[MountainChristian]

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

John 16:7,8,9,10,11 

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

 

 

"reprove" or ἐλέγχω

to convict, refute, confute

generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted

by conviction to bring to the light, to expose

to find fault with, correct

by word

to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove

to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation

by deed

to chasten, to punish

The KJV translates ἐλέγχω in the following manner: reprove (6x), rebuke (5x), convince (4x), tell (one's) fault (1x), convict (1x).

[Ukulelemike]

My primary door-to-door is not to try specifically to get people saved-I have had far too many ineffective supposed 'conversions' that way. But what I WILL do is go out to give small tracts, often about our churc, with the gospel on them, and just let them know we are here-some are more responsive to that. I also make myself available to Bible studied if people desire them-I notice this seems to work well with the JW's and LDS, why shouldn't we do that?

 

Mostly, though I just let them know we are here-after all, everyone needs a church at least twice in life: once for marrying and once for burying.

 

In our little town, though, it only takes about two or three good weekends to hit every house, so its not a year-round thing, else we become tiring to them.

[Jordan Kurecki]

Don't know how this applies but it comes to mind.

 

my Pastor told me this.

 

He knows an evangelist that goes to India every year and has Tent Evangelistic meetings.

 

Well one of the indians invited his neighbor to come. he said "You gotta come hear all about Jesus"

 

the guy responded with "I am Muslim and I will not come, do not ask me again"

 

the next day he invited him again, he said im telling you that you have to come hear about Jesus.

 

the muslim responded "I told you I am a muslim, I don't believe in the same Jesus you believe in, if you ask me again I am going to kill you."

 

the next day he invited him one more time, the man said "I told you if you invited me that I was going to kill you, if you are willing to die for this Jesus, than I will come and hear about him."

 

he came that night and got saved.

[weary warrior]

I'm new here and have been reading through quite a bit of this message board. It has been interesting reading. I just found this post by brosmith. I am in total agreement with it as he has posted it. In the church I was saved in we didn't go door knocking. One reason was that we were in a very small out of the way community, on a dead end road in Alaska. You can wear out your welcome very quickly in small communities like this.

 

Now that I live in the northwest I have been exposed to this that brosmith said. "Baptist preachers have this idea that you are sinning if you don't go out knocking on doors." This is totally foreign to me. My philosopy is and always has been, as brosmith said in another place, "Living a consistent Christian life before the world and then giving a verbal witness as opportunities arise is not only the best way of soul-winning but it is the Biblical way."

 

I am really disheartened by the salesmanship part of what I see spoken of as "soul winning" in a door to door environment, or even in a church environment when I see someone "leading someone to Christ." Salesmanship and high pressure tactics have no place in The Lord's work, it totally leaves out the work of The Holy Spirit.

 

I'm going to copy and paste something I got from a friend in email the other day. This speaks directly to this issue and reflects my views even before I read it. This was written by David Wells, who I do not know.

___________________________________________________

 

Soulwinning, Or Salesmanship?"
An Article by David Wells

 

"Do you believe you have ever done anything wrong, and that you are a sinner?"

"Yes."

"Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross to take away those sins?"

"Yes."

"Then will you bow your head with me, repeat a short prayer, and ask Jesus to come into your heart?"

"Yes."

(This is done.)

"Now, you are saved!"

"I am?"

"Yes, the Bible says you are saved. Don’t you believe the Bible?"

"Well, of course I do."

"Then you are saved, right?"

"Right."

 

At first look, the method and message of the above illustration might seem beyond criticism. As a vast throng of "personal soul winners" canvasses our land from door to door using the above method, it becomes very difficult to downgrade their zeal and enthusiasm. To their credit, it must be stated that they are certainly on the jOB. The enthusiasm, earnestness, and persuasiveness which this well-trained group of so-called "fundamentalists" exhibits is certainly admirable, to say the least.

However, is this zealousness and persuasiveness mis-directed? Is the method which is being used a scriptural method? Are the folks who are following the step by step instructions of the "soul winner" being genuinely saved?

 

This is a very delicate yet crucial prOBlem today in the world of Biblical Christianity as we know it. Several thought provoking questions and intricate situations are being brought to the attention of God's people everywhere. Certainly, a few of these conversions are genuine. It is the opinion of this writer, however, that the majority of these "decisions" for Christ do not pan out and are not genuine.

Where are all the converts? Where is all the fruit? As the hundreds and thousands of souls which are being saved are counted and recorded, where are they all going? Why is our land not in the midst of a great spiritual awakening and revival, rather than being in a downhill slide into sin and depravity? Could it be that instead of being born again, people are being stillborn as a result of slick salesmanship techniques? A closer study of the method of "easy-believism" certainly reveals to any rational believer that today's gospel has been watered down and grossly over-simplified.

 

What Is Missing? What Is Incorrect?

 

First of all, the Easy-believism type of evangelism usually does not emphasize genuine repentance toward God. No one can be saved without a recognition of sin toward God, and a repentance of turning away from that sin. It is quite OBvious that when someone is asked if they have ever done anything wrong, they are going to say, "Yes". However, to agree lightheartedly that you have erred, and to experience the convicting influence and power of the Holy Spirit are two completely different things! Until a person has experienced the Spirit relayed consciousness that he is a totally depraved sinner, he can never exercise a saving faith in Christ. It is absolute folly to tell an unconvicted sinner to merely believe in Jesus and expect him to be saved. Before a person can be saved, he has to realize that he is lost.

 

This conviction comes from the Holy Spirit. To sweeten the gospel for the sake of numbers by de-emphasizing the sinfulness of man is unscriptural and ungodly! For man to realize that he is exceedingly sinful, he must first be shown the exceeding sinfulness of sin. That conviction does not come, however, through a planned program of quick responses by way of rehearsed questions.

 

Conviction of sin comes when God's people preach and teach the power of repentance through the Holy Spirit. As the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, people are saved. My father used to tell me: "Son, a sinner can feel it in his head, and not believe it in his heart." His words are true yet today. A mental assent of sin is far different than a heart belief of conviction and sorrow toward that sin.

 

A second emphasis which is missing in the easy-believism, door-to-door method of soul winning is an acknowledgment of the Lordship of Christ. To coax someone into lightheartedly admitting that Jesus is Saviour is missing the target entirely. Jesus is first and foremost Lord, and then Saviour! As one falls at the feet of Christ, experiencing the conviction of the Holy Spirit and realizing the all encompassing Lordship of Christ, he is then in a position to accept Christ as Saviour. Easy believism leaves this out entirely. The sovereign Lordship of Christ is omitted and skipped completely, while the message of "only believe" is placed easily within one's grasp. Consequently, shallow and frivolous decisions are made, and the very crux of the gospel is left unsaid.

 

Thirdly, while the joy and wonderfulness of salvation is over emphasized, the easy-believism method totally ignores the terms of true discipleship. When one gets saved, life does not suddenly become one big joy ride into Heaven. The cost must be counted! The cross as well as the crown must be preached and taught. Genuine salvation does not produce a constant bed of roses. People should not be conned into thinking that it does, just in order to get them to make some sort of decision. Let it be said that a life of service for Christ will result in joy, peace, contentment, hope and purpose. Along with this, however, comes sacrifice, tears, anguish, persecution, and oftentimes death. Certainly, the genuine soul winner should make the potential convert aware of this fact. Not as a condition for salvation, but rather as a result of following Christ.

 

What is the result of all of this? People all across our land are believing, but they do not know what they are believing! The seed has not been sown properly, the doctrinal watering has not taken place, and God has not given the increase. Shallow decisions to "repeat the sinner's prayer" are being substituted for heart felt belief in the regenerating power of God. Listen: a slick smile, a hearty handshake, a manufactured speech, and a quick command for someone to bow their head and ask Jesus to come into their heart is not New Testament evangelism! People in the New Testament were never pressured into salvation. I challenge anyone to show me where they were! In all instances, the heart of the individual was prepared by the Holy Spirit through the teaching of God's Word, and a soul winner was then led to that person.

 

Of course, today's high powered soul winner hides behind the feeble excuse that if only one conversion in twenty is genuine, then we should rejoice in the fact that the one genuine convert is saved and on his way to Heaven. Are people actually that naive? If this reasoning is logical, then is it not logical to also say, "Okay, let's have twenty people line up against a wall. We'll take a gun and shoot at all twenty of them. However, if only one escapes with his life, we will rejoice in the fact that the one is alive, even though the other nineteen people may be dead!"

 

To take the unscripturally loaded gun of easy-believism and aim it at twenty people with the hope that maybe one will actually get saved is basically the same type of logic. What about the other nineteen? They have been deceived, are oftentimes bitter, have been given a false hope, and are usually on their way to hell by means of a false profession. They have been shot and killed by the gun of easy-believism.

 

It is time for many of us to re-evaluate our methods of soul winning. Time needs to be set aside to patiently teach people the gospel. The necessity for true repentance and faith in Christ needs to be the very foundation of our message. We then need to wait on and pray for the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. We then need to prayerfully and honestly lead them to the Lord. After a person gets saved, strong Baptist doctrine from God's Word needs to be taught and rooted into the life of the new child of God. Certainly, scriptural baptism needs to be taught and administered, and the new convert should be brought up as A new babe in Christ, in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

Of course, by doing it this way, we may not have as many "decisions" for the Lord. It is my belief, however, that the majority of those who do believe will be genuine, and that New Testament evangelism will be more accurately followed and practiced.

________________________________

 

I am sorry for the length of this post. The copy and paste was lengthy. Thank you for this opportunity to participate.

 

May God bless you as you serve Him.

 

Jim

 

Jim, I too just moved down from Alaska, from a remote, dead-end road. I know what you mean. Door knocking was BIG no-no there, and they had the guns to back it up.

 

I salute and respect those who do have the ministry and ability to go house-to-house and reach people in that manner, when they approach it properly. I sure am in full agreement that the salesmanship approach / heart prOBably does more damage in the long run than if they had never made contact in the first place. I feel that door-knocking is both a cultural and personal tool, not to be disallowed by those it does not work for, and not to be made a law by those it does work for. There are many tools to get out the gospel, and after reading the posts on this thread, I think that seems to be the general agreement among all of us here.

 

Jim, I'm so homesick for Alaska, but I know God wants me right here now. But I'm missing a caribou hunt with my son next month!

[weary warrior]

Uh Oh. My quote of Jim's post posted the whole thing. Moderator, if you think that is taking up too much room and want it edited... I don't know how. But I sure give my blessing to you if you can. Sorry about that.

[Jim_Alaska]

Uh Oh. My quote of Jim's post posted the whole thing. Moderator, if you think that is taking up too much room and want it edited... I don't know how. But I sure give my blessing to you if you can. Sorry about that.

 

For next time Weary warrior,

 

When the quote box comes up, just highlight what you want cut out and hit the delete button. That will only leave the part you want others to see in the post. Then go ahead and write your message under the quote.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Jim_Alaska

[weary warrior]

For next time Weary warrior,

 

When the quote box comes up, just highlight what you want cut out and hit the delete button. That will only leave the part you want others to see in the post. Then go ahead and write your message under the quote.

 

Thank you, Sir. And it was so simple.

[Saintnow]

There are three Baptist churches in my town.  Only one conducts door to door visitations.  Guess which one has dozens of people whose lives were changed in quite miraculous ways, in salvation and returning from backsliding, with torn families mended and growing, and many people from many religious backgrounds getting saved and right with God and growing as soul-winning King James Bible Baptists?  Guess which of the three is known for people talking around town about the Lord?   Guess which one of the three has pre-teen children leading other pre-teen children to the Lord with many activities geared for fun and fellowship and binging lost people in to hear the gospel?   Guess where a lot of people in this town would be without that church....and if you guess Hell, jail, bars, occult groups you won't be far off.

 

There is nothing wrong with going door to door and directly asking, as politely as possible, "if you die today, are you sure your sins are forgiven and you are going to heaven?"   As long as the law of the land allows us to do it, why not do it in the name of the Lord?    And if not doing it, pray for those who are.  They are laborers going out into the field and that's one thing Jesus said we should pray for, more laborers in the field.   God bless those who love the Lord and people enough to use there backbone and take initiative.  Those who are not taking initiative are blessed, but there is a special blessing for those who purposely take the initiative to fish for souls.  Those kind of people are why I am saved today...because they loved the Lord and they went out to preach the gospel to strangers.  God bless them.

I thank God there is one church near me with the  love and the backbone  to do it....and the same goes for the bus ministry too, fifty kids being brought into church, many out of homes filled with all kinds of devils and parents who don't much care....

 

I say shame on anybody who puts these outreach ministries down.....and I can guess who  attends churches that are like the  two  half dead churches in my town.

 

Edited June 13, 2015 by Saintnow