Churches That Are Against Having Drums In The Music...

[Left the Bldg]

Wow!  The sound of that and seeing the way the people were talking and moving reminds me of African tribal rituals, which I have seen videos of.  Totally hypnotic, leading people into highly suggestive states which they then can be programmed.   Not good.

Edited to ask question:

Does anyone have a video example of drums being used in a good way?  I'd like to see what the difference between good drumming and bad drumming is, just out of curiosity.  There have been several statements about instruments being used in a good vs bad way yet no examples have been given of either.  For further clarification on this subject, it would be helpful to see examples of both assertions being demonstrated. 

I'm not for or against instruments being used in church, I don't care either way.  I just would like to see specific examples of both positions. 

Here is a good way?  http://bobb-cypressgrovebluescom.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-did-songs-of-bible-originally.html

Here is a bad way?  http://hubpages.com/hub/Music-Of-Biblical-Times

 

This is only my assumption since one is Hebrew and the other Egyptian.  The Hebrew made me want to worship while the Egyptian felt eerie.

[Covenanter]

 

The topic was about music and drums and I gave a little of my background from being in an AOG church and changing to the Baptist church so now after reading some posts I got a little confused in regards to the comments of "salvation."  Please forgive me as I said in my earlier post going from AOG to Baptist is a huge culture change for me.  So now I have to ask...I thought the moment you believed is when salvation occurs instantly.  Doesn't matter how...whether you go up to an alter, say a prayer in your head or even an atheist changing his mind on his death bed.  All the other things come later.  Sanctification, a changed life, gifts...etc.  And for some, the changes are quick and drastic and others may take years before you can even see a hint of a change.  I think for a lot of people they are not being helped to grow.  They may have salvation but are not being made into disciples.

 

What I was saying is that it is easy to profess conversion by such means as you indicate. Whether that conversion is real, or simply superficial church leaders need to assess - is there evidence of a changed life? should we baptise him? should we welcome him into church membership, with voting rights regarding the running of the church? should he teach in the Sunday school? or preach? Paul writes: .... ¹⁰ And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

 

We do need a level of discernment, but that does not mean a suspicial attitude to new believers - they need all the encouragement they can get, and how they respond to such encouragement is important. We are NOT free to continue in sin, that grace may abound. (Rom. 6:1)

[Left the Bldg]

What I was saying is that it is easy to profess conversion by such means as you indicate. Whether that conversion is real, or simply superficial church leaders need to assess - is there evidence of a changed life? should we baptise him? should we welcome him into church membership, with voting rights regarding the running of the church? should he teach in the Sunday school? or preach? Paul writes: .... ¹⁰ And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.

 

We do need a level of discernment, but that does not mean a suspicial attitude to new believers - they need all the encouragement they can get, and how they respond to such encouragement is important. We are NOT free to continue in sin, that grace may abound. (Rom. 6:1)

I understand.  I think I was referring to my parents in whom which did not attend church.  I don't believe the "church" and not all of them...because I haven't attended "all" are not following up on new conversions.  My mother passed in July and my pastor conducted the funeral.  It will be 4 months and not once has he or anyone in the church even asked how our family is doing even though I attend every week and see him.  I understand he's busy but not an email, phone call, pat on the back.  That is very discouraging to me.  We're not free to sin as far as willful sinning but we will sin until we die and are with the Lord.  Does that make sense?  I'm not trying to debate just maybe venting about what goes on in churches?  Just thoughts in my head?  Thank you for your response.

[JerryNumbers]

I understand.  I think I was referring to my parents in whom which did not attend church.  I don't believe the "church" and not all of them...because I haven't attended "all" are not following up on new conversions.  My mother passed in July and my pastor conducted the funeral.  It will be 4 months and not once has he or anyone in the church even asked how our family is doing even though I attend every week and see him.  I understand he's busy but not an email, phone call, pat on the back.  That is very discouraging to me.  We're not free to sin as far as willful sinning but we will sin until we die and are with the Lord.  Does that make sense?  I'm not trying to debate just maybe venting about what goes on in churches?  Just thoughts in my head?  Thank you for your response.

 

They see you attending church services so they feel all is going well with you. I assume at church services all of them are friendly with you. And perhaps they feel that if there was any problem you would mention it to one of them.

[John81]

They see you attending church services so they feel all is going well with you. I assume at church services all of them are friendly with you. And perhaps they feel that if there was any problem you would mention it to one of them.

While that's possible, it's still not very friendly, kind or even polite.

[JerryNumbers]

While that's possible, it's still not very friendly, kind or even polite.

 

So your saying if they're friendly & speaking to her & their not being polite?

[John81]

So your saying if they're friendly & speaking to her & their not being polite?

If ones mom passes away, and the pastor conducts the funeral, then never says a word of comfort or even asks how the daughter is doing afterward that's not friendly or polite.

[swathdiver]

We've had several saints pass away this year and 3 surviving spouses asked us NOT to keep consoling them.  Just treat them as we did before. 

[John81]

We've had several saints pass away this year and 3 surviving spouses asked us NOT to keep consoling them.  Just treat them as we did before. 

That's fine, if that's what a person wants, but otherwise if nothing else it's polite to speak to someone about the matter, ask how they are holding up, if they need anything.

 

We are called to love one another, to share one anothers burdens, to weep with those who weep.

 

Some folks prefer privacy, and if they ask for that, then that's what they need. Some folks simply need to know others care, some actually may need some help in some way.

 

When my Mom passed away I had some people I didn't even know come up to me and speak kind words. We should certainly do no less with our brothers/sisters in Christ.

[HappyChristian]

I have to agree with John on this one.  If a loved one passes, the church family should rally.  That doesn't mean hounding the bereaved, but it does mean checking on them to see how they are doing.  If, as in swath's example, they ask to be treated as before, that is fine...do so!  However, when one loses a parent or a spouse, it can be devastating and a little "I'm thinking of you and praying for you" goes a long way! 

 

That said, though, we need to be cognizant of the fact that our fellow church members also have lives in which things happen.  We are to bear one another's burdens, so, yes, they should acknowledge the grieving one.  But at the same time, the grieving one needs to bear others' burdens.  That helps assuage grief in many ways.

 

Laura, I'm so sorry for your loss. We lost my dad almost 2 years ago (my grandmother 4 months before this) - and the grief is still pretty fresh (My FIL went to glory 9 years ago, and we still miss him).  Then we lost my hubby's oldest brother four months later.  This past June, we lost my MIL.  A couple of months later, we lost a dear friend who was like a brother.  While they are all in glory, we miss them.  And we grieve for their loss to us.  We wouldn't wish them back in the state they were in - they were all in ill health, but we do miss having them to speak with or just knowing they are there.

 

We are not asked how we are doing anymore.  I think part of the reason for that is that none of our family attended church here - they didn't/don't even live in the same state.  But when we lose members of the church, it's a bit different - and rightly so.

 

I'll be praying for you, Laura, and anytime you want to pm me and talk about your mom and your grief, feel free to do so - I would love to chat with you about your mom.  

 

Unless TGL doesn't care that the thread has taken this direction, we really need to get back on topic....

[Salyan]

May I jump in and give a thought on worldliness and separation in music (and drums)? Let's see whether I can express it clearly.
 

The Bible says we are to be holy, and we are be separate from the world - abstaining from even the appearance of evil. It also says that we should avoid causing a brother to stumble, and that everything should be done decently and in order. The obvious first question in anything is - is it holy? Believers disagree on whether certain kinds of music are intrinsically right or wrong. That goes to conscience (and a bit, to education). Secondly, does it cause a brother to stumble? If fellow believers in the church honestly believe some music is wrong or the music brings up their pre-salvation background, then those who believe it is fine need to limit their freedom in order to not cause spiritual offense to their brethren. Perhaps you may listen to it privately, but not around those whom it offends and certainly not in corporate worship. Finally (and here's where the separation comes in), there is the thought of separating from worldliness. How is this defined? How far do we go? If we go far enough back - look deeply enough - we are certain to find some wrong association with everything. I'm beginning to think that, to some extent, the question might be in how commonly known is that association. If it's not directly associated with current evil, or perhaps directly extant from occultic/evil practices (as in, it only originated because of ____), perhaps we need not concern ourselves with it.  There is a common (false) argument that Luther used barroom tunes in his hymn writing. Even if he had (and he didn't), is anyone today likely to be made to stumble by 400-year-old barroom tunes? Is the music going to bring up mental recollections of drinking to this tune, or encourage the listener to look up the worldly musician who first sung it? Highly unlikely.  The ten-year-old pop song that is being 'rewritten' with 'christian' words, however, will.  Over time, associations change. Tights were at one time men's clothing - but they are certainly women's garb now. Pants were originally men's clothing, but I think that by this generation they now belong to both, and one must find other reasons for encouraging skirts & dresses then simply the 'men's clothing' argument.  Over time, things, change - and they will eventually change again.  For example, the other day my friends and I were discussing the Gaithers. They were great musicians starting out, and I really love some of their hymns, but their associations and growing 'rockiness' of their later years has led many conservative folk to abandon their music.  However, there's nothing wrong with some of those old hymns in and of themselves. Perhaps in another twenty or thirty years, when the Gaithers are forgotten we can use those hymns again. Right now, for the sake of their obvious, well-known and easily researched companions and music styles, we avoid them.

 

The question was of drums in church music. There are some rhythms that I honestly believe originated in the occult and in immorality, and are intrinsically evil. Those will not change with time or association. Snare drum sets have a bad association right now - will that change? Maybe. But for right now, they are generally avoided in order to avoid the appearance of evil. The fact that the drum is a strong rhythm instrument that does not contribute to melody or harmony (like a piano would) means that it is musically inappropriate in many small churches or instrumental groups - adding it in would not be decently and in order!   Past these guidelines, I can see no Biblical problem with using drums in godly music. Unless of course, their very physical presence is causing disruption and offense to those who believe they are intrinsically evil. Although I really think that such blanket statements (drums are bad - period) tend to come more out of personal preference than Biblical standards. Nothing wrong with personal preference, but IMO it doesn't count as a reason to be offended and claim a stumbling block.

 

 

[JerryNumbers]

And we should want: Mt 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven, Lu 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

 

And many of us Christians are surely doing many thing that will never be done in Heaven, even in our church services.

[Left the Bldg]

Psalm 150

King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel (this is in the percussion family (drums) and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

 

 

[heartstrings]

 

Psalm 150

King James Version (KJV)

150 Praise ye the Lord. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.

2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.

3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.

4 Praise him with the timbrel (this is in the percussion family (drums) and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.

5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.

6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord.

 

 

 

I just googled "rock concert video". for an example of 'drum beats' and the first one which came up for me was a concert by "Whitesnake". It was very VILE. I heard electric guitar distortions and drums....lots of drums. I agree that there's nothing wrong with 'drums' per se, but I fail to see how electric guitar distortions have enough melody to inspire "making melody in your hearts" unto the Lord. That;s why I fail to see how any kind of rock music or anything which even resembles such, including similar drum beats, can praise God, and edify God's people....And seeing that the very same thing is used to honor the Devil, why would we want to conform to this world's 'worship'?. So the question is, can the same style of music which is used to glorify power, lust, rebellion and anarchy, lewdness and filth be used to praise God? Really..

 

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

[The Glory Land]

I think if the offering goes up with drums playing, many churches will start using them...   Bravo