Ccm Being Used By Temple Baptist Church Powell, Tn (Pastor Clarence Sexton)

[John81]

Yes, at one time pianos were not welcome in church because of their use in saloons. Even organs were once unwelcome.

 

The music Moody and Sankey used was denounced by the conservative churches of their time.

[Jeffrey]

Sorry if I was unclear before. I wasn't referring to just music there. It was more of a general statement that included everything - even music. Jesus was pointing out that there will be many on judgment day that protest God's judgment on them with the excuse that they did much good in His name. Many "musicians" do a lot of what they would consider to be "good," but if their heart was never right with God to begin with, the end results (when eternity comes) are heart-breaking.

 

Basically the point with this portion of my previous post is that people do many things in God's name that God is not really a part of. This is a common problem in a lot of church music situations where the wrong music has crept in. Music pastors and congregation members have justified using a piece (pieces) of corrupt music because "the words are good" or even from Scripture, but in fact, God is not reflected in that music because it was prduced by a heart that was not in tune with God in the first place. Yes, they knew how to write good words, but they ignored the most important part of music - knowing God.

thank you for clarifying

i guess my point is what is Godly music look/sound like? does it comedown to personal conviction? taste? as compared to worldly.

I know I have been somewhat of a rebel here on this board, but my questions here are sincere. Im in noway a musician and don't understand music theory.

[Jeffrey]

Some of the newer hymns which came out in the late 1800s into the early 1900s were denounced as being too worldly, too emotional, not fit for church and outright improper; yet those hymns are today in our hymnals and the "conservatives" and "fundamentalists" accept and sing them even though their predecessors denounced them.

 

Similar arguments occurred way back when hymns first began being used in some churches. The "old guard" denounced them as being worldly and declared only biblical psalms were proper for Christians. We know how that fight went also.

 

CCM has only been around for about a half-century and already most churches which once opposed this now embrace such. Even among IFBs CCM is now being used in many churches; and listened to by many IFBs outside of church.

 

As Solomon said, there is nothing new under the sun.

good point John, so i think the question  remains, if the piano and organ were taboo a 100+ yrs ago, will believers 100 yrs   from now see CCM as Godly music? As I posted above, I am no music expert,

[GraceSaved]

good point John, so i think the question  remains, if the piano and organ were taboo a 100+ yrs ago, will believers 100 yrs   from now see CCM as Godly music? As I posted above, I am no music expert,

100 yrs from now the NIV will be the new KJV.  We'll have NIVO advocates.    Sorry.  Off topic but same principle.

[Salyan]

100 yrs from now the NIV will be the new KJV. We'll have NIVO advocates. Sorry. Off topic but same principle.

I think your 'principle' there is applicable today, but in the other direction. The KJV is defended because of its sound roots, whereas the NIV is from corrupted sources and ungodly translators. Sound, godly music also comes from a good source, whereas CCM comes from worldly and ungodly roots.

[Jeffrey]

I think your 'principle' there is applicable today, but in the other direction. The KJV is defended because of its sound roots, whereas the NIV is from corrupted sources and ungodly translators. Sound, godly music also comes from a good source, whereas CCM comes from worldly and ungodly roots.

Where are these ungodly roots,(you know, we are all unGodly roots)

[GraceSaved]

I think your 'principle' there is applicable today, but in the other direction. The KJV is defended because of its sound roots, whereas the NIV is from corrupted sources and ungodly translators. Sound, godly music also comes from a good source, whereas CCM comes from worldly and ungodly roots.

Weren't the writers of the KJV of Anglican roots which practiced infant baptism?  But this is another discussion as I don't want to draw away from the OP.  Sorry.  I was just making a point.

[Jeffrey]

Weren't the writers of the KJV of Anglican roots which practiced infant baptism?  But this is another discussion as I don't want to draw away from the OP.  Sorry.  I was just making a point.

All things are currupt one way or another, Is it Scriptural to chose one music genre over another?

 

Psalm 149

1 Praise ye the Lord.
Sing unto the Lord a new song,
and his praise in the congregation of saints.
2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him:
let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
3 Let them praise his name in the dance:
let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people:
he will beautify the meek with salvation.

5 Let the saints be joyful in glory:
let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth,
and a twoedged sword in their hand;
7 to execute vengeance upon the heathen,
and punishments upon the people;
8 to bind their kings with chains,
and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 to execute upon them the judgment written:
this honour have all his saints.

Praise ye the Lord.

 

 

Psalm 150

1 Praise ye the Lord.

Praise God in his sanctuary:
praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise him for his mighty acts:
praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet:
praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance:
praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals:
praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord.

Praise ye the Lord.

 

 

[GraceSaved]

I would guess in Biblical times middle eastern music didn't sound anything like music we have today, not even our hymns.

[John81]

Scripture doesn't give specifics on music and most of those who attempt to point to certain verses of Scripture to paint all CCM, modern hymns, Southern Gospel and other music as unbiblical are inconsistent in their application and practice.

 

All music forms could be said to be worldly, and all forms of music have been or currently are used by those in the world.

 

Our predecessors (meaning those Christians who were along the lines of what we might call conservative or fundamentalist) opposed much, in some cases all, of the music in our hymnals today. The musical instruments we use in our churches today were once solidly rejected by these as well. Any hymn used in church was once considered worldly and sinful. The piano was the instrument of the devil.

 

Some argue that Christian songs must be written by nearly perfect Christians in order to be acceptable, and thus they denounce all "modern" music yet they accept songs written by Calvinists and non-Calvinists, baptismal regenerationists, baby baptizers, those associated with false religions, those who also wrote worldly songs, and those from a host of churches rejected as not proper NT churches.

 

The debate over music should take place personally, as a family, and as a local church; not as a broad brush approach directed at all other churches and Christians.

 

As we see already, even within IFB, CCM is accepted and sung by many. Before long what's left of the current arguments over CCM will be moot and the focus will shift to what CCM is suitable for church and what isn't. We already see several IFB churches practicing the selective use of CCM songs just as all our churches practice the selective use of hymns.

[swathdiver]

Scripture doesn't give specifics on music...

 

It does but you always explain it away John!  

[John81]

No, Scripture simply tells us to sing songs, hymns and spiritual songs; it doesn't tell us anything about musical styles, authors or a variety of other details. We read of music which was very loud, with much dancing, with many musical instruments; and we read of music which seems to have been spur of the moment and may have been sung a capella or perhaps with a tambourine.

[prophet1]

Much like tbe OP, I logged the downhill slide of FBC Hammond's Music. Because of incrementality, no one was outraged when our 'Spring Program' was opened with a Charismatic Song-BTC's "I Believe".
No one was asked to lead prayer in their prayer language (a practice of BT) just a reworked song was sung.

But music doesn't change by itself, it is not a cause. It is an effect, a manifestation of the cause. And my church was no exception.
Simultaneously, the Word of God was being attacked. "spirit led" was replacing sound doctrine. Man worship had been there, festering for years.

And so it is at Temple.

The "originals" are inspired hocus pocus...try to nail Dr.Sexton down on it, and you'll be better at wet fish juggling.

The cult of "leadership" is well entrenched there, as well.

I pray that no such sexual perversion, as Hyles' son, or Schaap practiced, is ever practiced there. But experience tells me that one day bad news may once again hit the IFB headlines.

I am in no way insinuating that I have heard or know of such, only that i see a pattern, that is too familiar to ignore.



Anishinaabe

[swathdiver]

No, Scripture simply tells us to sing songs, hymns and spiritual songs; it doesn't tell us anything about musical styles, authors or a variety of other details. We read of music which was very loud, with much dancing, with many musical instruments; and we read of music which seems to have been spur of the moment and may have been sung a capella or perhaps with a tambourine.

 

 

Yes it does.  As an aside, you contradicted your first point with your last.  

[Ukulelemike]

 

 

How can you even ask that? This scriptuire is clearly addressing EVERYTHING that one does in the name of Jesus, and that there are many doing lots in Jesus name, that ultimately have nothing to do with Jesus. CCM is a big one.