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Ccm Being Used By Temple Baptist Church Powell, Tn (Pastor Clarence Sexton)

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What sort of transition...to adapted CCM or outright CCM?


I haven't been back except for a funeral of a friend. From when I was tree they started doing solos with acustic guitars.

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Example:  Hebrews 13:1

 

(KJV)  "Let brotherly love continue"

 

(ASV) "Let love of the brethren continue"

 

(NIV)  "Keep on loving one another as brothers and sisters.

 

John 3:16

 

(KJV) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life"

 

(ASV) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth on him, should not perish, but have eternal life"

 

(NIV) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" 

 

Where are there doctrinal changes?

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/resources_tracts_godsonlybegottenson/

 

God bless,

Larry

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I read the article.  This is where discernment comes in and the need to compare scripture with scripture no matter what translation is being used. Misinterpretations still happen using KJV.  

 

http://www.gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html

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Taking verses out of context is another problem.

 

The problem of looking through a dozen MVs to find one that has a particular verse or passage worded in a way you can use it to support your preconceived notion is something else. So, while you look at the book of "Jake", verse 7:7, you decide the way it's worded in the KJB doesn't support your already determined position so you look in the ESV, NASB, NIV (three different versions of this), NLT, Amplified, The Message, etc., until finally you come across "Jake 7:7" rendered in such a way you can use it to support your agenda.

 

This is what the Seeker churches do.  God is no longer their finally authority, the guy writing the message is.

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What sort of transition...to adapted CCM or outright CCM?

I always find it interesting when people make this distinction when really, nothing anyone does with a piece of music can change its heart. No man can change another's heart, and to try to reinterpret the musical utterance of that heart is futile; it still is what it is, even if it technically sounds a bit different.

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That's mature Jeff......

sadly Dave, it's the truth. Do you know what I notice about this site? most people when quoting Scripture, they say " The KJV says"", or" the AV says",

rather what most believers say, "Paul wrote", "Jesus said in Luke". who are they giving credit to? A version of Scripture or to God?

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Jeffrey isn't complaining that the KJB is being used, simply pointing out that rather than saying "Jesus stated" or "Paul wrote" or "Scripture says" or "we read in the Bible", there are those who instead continually respond "the KJV says".

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I am a bit confused, John.  This thread is supposed to be about CCM.  It has turned into a thread on the KJV and MV's.  The "wines of the Bible" is also a KJV thread, too.

It would be nice if someone would create a KJV thread, instead of hijacking these two.

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There are several KJB threads out there if anyone wishes to resurrect one. The option is always open for someone to start a new thread too.

 

As a connection between CCM and the KJB, there are a number of CCM songs which use the KJB.

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There are several KJB threads out there if anyone wishes to resurrect one. The option is always open for someone to start a new thread too.

 

As a connection between CCM and the KJB, there are a number of CCM songs which use the KJB.

 

I will look for one, John.  

Yes, I am aware of that.  

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CCM generally-speaking, is carnal, fleshly and those who use it are conforming to this world, rather than being transformed. Not all, perhaps, but most, and indeed, the concept behind it. It is a microcosm of the New Evangelical ideal of "infiltrate, don't separate." Try to sneak in the back way to get people saved, rather than by boldly proclaiming the word of God and the gospel.  

 

There, back on topic.

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Mike, all kinds of music can be carnal, you have to see what the song is saying and what the attitude of the artist is. Just because they use drums and guitars doesn't make it wrong, up until the 1800's, most church music was more if an opera style music, when the piano and organs were introduced, it was considered worldly. It was considered music of the saloons.
In my thinking, by reading Romans 7, we are all worldly to begin with, it is because of Christ, is why we are acceptable.

Edited by Jeffrey

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Mike, all kinds of music can be carnal, you have to see what the song is saying and what the attitude of the artist is. Just because they use drums and guitars doesn't make it wrong, up until the 1800's, most church music was more if an opera style music, when the piano and organs were introduced, it was considered worldly. It was considered music of the saloons.
In my thinking, by reading Romans 7, we are all worldly to begin with, it is because of Christ, is why we are acceptable.

Actually, many believed the organ was bad because of its use in the Catholic church. Personally I have no use for organ, but that's a personal choice. Piano, however, was the haven of classical music from early on, long before its time in the saloons.  But we aren't talking instruments here, we are talking styles. And this is the issue. 

 

CCM purposely, admittedly, seeks to imitate the sounds of secular popular music. It began in the Jesus People movement among the hippies, many of which were unsaved when they began to bring their music in to be used in their meetings. This is the origin of CCM.

 

As far as the importance of the attitude, God doesn't accept what we give Him just because of our attitude-He requires to be approached in holiness, to be sanctified in them that come near Him-sanctified means to be set apart. Set apart from what? Worldliness, carnality, idol-style worship, etc. Roc music, pop music IS idol worship music; if you don't believe that, just watch a concert video and see the adulation and adoration of the fans for the performers most of the time, not the Lord. The performer and performance is the center of it all, not the Lord.  

 

Did God accept the worship of Adab and Abihu because they had a good attitude? They must have thought themselves bringing great honor to God by offering Him an incense offering-but Gof struck them dead, not because of their attitude but because of their disobedience. Remember, lots of people with good attitudes will stand before the Lord saying, "Lord, Lord..." and lay out all the wonderful things they did for Him, in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them. We don't please him by just a good attitude, but by obedience followed by a good attitude.

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By the way, I agree that just because something is in the basic style of the hymn, doesn't mean its much good-there are a lot of hymns I have no use for because they produce a poor message. BUT, message AND messenger are important. If one is wrong, if one is carnal and of a sensual nature, then both are lost.

 

And also, hymns in their present form can be found as far back as the 16th century, maybe earlier.

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This thread is supposed to be about CCM.  It has turned into a thread on the KJV and MV's.  

 

These threads have evolved as the participants have changed course.  In a way CCM and the rejection of God's Word for a Modern Perversion are related.  

 

Just because they use drums and guitars doesn't make it wrong...

 

Jeffrey, you really need to study your King James Bible and sincerely ask the Holy Ghost to show what what music is acceptable unto the Lord.  It does matter and God did say so.

 

I keep drumming KJV Bible with you because you're Modern Perversion man.  You think those counterfeit Egyptian bibles are God's Word when they are not as has been shown to you over and over.

 

You who use the MVs have shown us here lots of methods of winning the lost for Christ.  Yes, I'm changing the subject yet again.  If you came across an old lady who had but 3 minutes to live Jeffrey, and wanted to go to heaven, what would you tell her Jeffrey?

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Sorry, but this thread didn't "evolve" into discussion of Bible versions. It's been hijacked, and needs to get back on topic. As in other threads that have been hijacked by arguing about the merits or demerits of whatever version, get back on topic.  If you desire to discuss Bible versions, feel free to start another thread. But stop the discussion here. Thank you.

 

:11backtotopic: 

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Actually, many believed the organ was bad because of its use in the Catholic church. Personally I have no use for organ, but that's a personal choice. Piano, however, was the haven of classical music from early on, long before its time in the saloons.  But we aren't talking instruments here, we are talking styles. And this is the issue. 

thank you for saying this

 

 

CCM purposely, admittedly, seeks to imitate the sounds of secular popular music. It began in the Jesus People movement among the hippies, many of which were unsaved when they began to bring their music in to be used in their meetings. This is the origin of CCM.

Music has always reflected the culture around it, it is something God is redeeming a people, He can redeem music also. whether rap, raggae, rock or country. Have you ever listened to it ?

 

 

As far as the importance of the attitude, God doesn't accept what we give Him just because of our attitude-He requires to be approached in holiness, to be sanctified in them that come near Him-sanctified means to be set apart. Set apart from what? Worldliness, carnality, idol-style worship, etc. Roc music, pop music IS idol worship music; if you don't believe that, just watch a concert video and see the adulation and adoration of the fans for the performers most of the time, not the Lord. The performer and performance is the center of it all, not the Lord.  

 

Here is where you are wrong, attitude will be reflected in our actions;Let me ask you, the prodigal son's brother, what was his problem? Do you think he had a good attitude about his brothers return? or was it a poor attitude? It was reflective on how he reacted to the celebration and his poor attitude showed that he had no compassion for his brother but looking for his fathers approval through his own work or actions.

 How about the Pharisee and tax collector, who had the right attitude? the Pharisee had all of the Law memorized, probably tithed, probably an upright person in the community, who went home justified?

Does it matter how much we give, or does God love a cheerful giver? you see being cheerful is a good attitude.

 

 

Did God accept the worship of Adab and Abihu because they had a good attitude? They must have thought themselves bringing great honor to God by offering Him an incense offering-but Gof struck them dead, not because of their attitude but because of their disobedience. Remember, lots of people with good attitudes will stand before the Lord saying, "Lord, Lord..." and lay out all the wonderful things they did for Him, in His name, but He will tell them He never knew them. We don't please him by just a good attitude, but by obedience followed by a good attitude.

 

Adab and Abihu were drunk, so yes that was disobedience.

And as you can read, people will be saying that to HIm, because they will want to be justified in their own actions, not what God did through Jesus on the cross.

 

 Did you read Romans 7?

  1.  
     
     

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Jeffrey, you really need to study your King James Bible and sincerely ask the Holy Ghost to show what what music is acceptable unto the Lord.  It does matter and God did say so.

 

 

Jeffrey isn't complaining that the KJB is being used, simply pointing out that rather than saying "Jesus stated" or "Paul wrote" or "Scripture says" or "we read in the Bible", there are those who instead continually respond "the KJV says".

Ladies and Gentleman; Exhibit A

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Sorry, but this thread didn't "evolve" into discussion of Bible versions. It's been hijacked, 

 

I disagree.  Anyhow, what's the big deal?  Is someone going to print these pages off and put them into some book in topical order?

 

Over the years I've seen this as a way to stifle and end discussions.  In this case I've fallen into the trap of continuing to apply 2 Timothy 4:2 to natural men.

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Swath - you can disagree all you want. The big deal is a moderator said back to topic.  And so back to topic with a good attitude - which is scriptural, BTW.  You can consider it stifling a conversation all you want.  Folks interested in discussing versions are welcome to start a thread about it, as I said.  That's hardly stifling a conversation. 

 

Jeffery - please take your exhibits to another thread (one in which that is the topic), if you wish to continue that line of "conversing".

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