Tragedy

[deafnva77]

do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.

[Anon]

do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.

Not camp yet though...maybe a Dad/son fishing trip, family camping trip...? If the social workers allow... I wouldn't let him out of sight for at least a year or until he can be at least remotely trusted.

Good points though.

[deafnva77]

Not camp yet though...maybe a Dad/son fishing trip, family camping trip...? If the social workers allow... I wouldn't let him out of sight for at least a year or until he can be at least remotely trusted.

Good points though.

There is a camp for family. http://billriceranch.org/ is one of it.

[JerryNumbers]

As I've said before, I have seen families where the parents have seemed to have done every thing right, but still their child completely rebels.

I don't feel that this is something that anyone can really give you a correct answer as to why this is happening. To me, all you can do is, pray for him, them do your best to guide him the right way.

PS. I might add that some of those worldly counselors can tell you what they think is the problem,
but the truth be said, most times their opinion is worthless.

[joyfulpraise93]

John81, I'm so sorry that you are facing this right now. Samer and I will be praying for you.

[Pastor Matt]

Praying for you too. John if you wish to call me to pray with you let me know.

[Salyan]

:badday: John81, I'm so sorry to hear of your troubles. I will be praying for your family as well. :pray

[HappyChristian]

Oh my brother in Christ, I am so sorry for what is happening in your lives right now!!! There is nothing more hurtful to a parent than for a child to turn on them.

re: the knife incident...I don't know what you've done about that, but it might be a good idea to lock up any knives, scissor, and so forth. Keep only two keys - one for you and one for your wife, and keep them on your person at all times. That seems kind of drastic, but finding him with a knife calls for drastic measures! Especially since he rooms with his brother.

I am praying for you, John, and will ask my hubby and son to join in. I second the idea of getting away from the environment you are in now...if social services doesn't stop it. Personally, since he is not respecting you wife right now, I think it would be better if it were just the two of you, and maybe your youth pastor and perhaps the possible counsellor and a couple of other men...kind of a men's retreat. If you could work it out, maybe your son could spend a little bit of time alone with each of the men, fishing or hiking, and they could each try their hand at talking with him. And maybe you could spend some time alone with him as well. Sometimes getting away can help break things open.

He's dealing with some serious anger issues, most likely stemming from the fact that he is unsaved, living in a home where the parents want to live for the Lord and see their children do the same. It's a major spiritual battle, of which I'm sure you are aware!!

Psalm 46:1 "God is our refuge and strength, an ever present help in trouble."

Isaiah 41:10 "Fear thou not, for I AM with thee: be not dismayed; for I AM thy God: I WILL strengthen thee; yea, I WILL help thee; yea, I WILL uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."

Jeremiah 33:3 "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

[trc123]

Is it possible some children are born with a more rebellious heart than others? I know I'm far from perfect but I've done everything I could think of over the years to help him come to Christ at an early age' date=' to help him know right from wrong, to guide him, teach him and instruct him. Looking back on it, it seems he's fought me every step of the way.[/quote']

John,

I tried to send this by PM, but it doesn't seem to be going through....I'm not sure how all of this works but I did want to share with you and this is not meant in any harmful way.

Each and every child is different and unique and yes, some do have a "more rebellious heart" than others! There are so many, many variables that shape each and every person. In the end, each is responsible for their own choices; while this is true he is still very much a child. I notice you mentioned many things you've done "to help him" and I know those things must be out of a father's heart of love; have you been able to verbally communicate your heart of love to him? Has he allowed you to hug him and allowed you to express in words and in other emotional ways your heart of love for him? As you've said earlier in the thread, people of every age do have to follow rules and many do have a rebellious streak. You will certainly have to reach deep down in order to trust God; this is one of the most frightening things you and your wife will face in raising children. None of them will ever be perfect (as we certainly are no more perfect than they) and it is hard to let go of our control of them (even in little ways) and place them in God's hands. Some things you will not be able to regulate in their lives and control. You will need to pick your battles, pray and trust God in his mercy and grace.

Our daughter ran away (to school) one day. She didn't like our rules and had a friend who was seeing a "shrink" telling her how she manipulated her parents and got her own way. So when I grounded her for lying about her whereabouts, she decided to "runaway." We called the Police, and they eventually found her in class at school (she always loved school). We were so very scared, we prayed and cried much. We had an older couple in the church who she really loved and their son (of the same age as she was) was a good friend to our daughter. So, she moved in with them for the period of time of the grounding and they (without her knowledge) enforced the same grounding and rules as what she would have experienced if she stayed with us for that period of time. This allowed her and us (especially me) to have a cooling down period and for her to get good counsel from someone outside my wife and I. She soon realized that even in that family each had their own responsibilities, rules and regulations to follow and that our home was pretty normal and not nearly as restrictive as she was being fed by her girlfriend. It was very difficult to even allow her to stay with them. I worried that she would get bad advise, or realize she didn't need us. I also secretly worried about what other people would think and the "bad testimony" it would be to the lost people around us (family included). I was soon taught a lesson by God; don't worry about others perceptions........do what is right for your family!

Each of our children at one time or another have had varying levels of rebellion and "testing" the boundaries and just plain going through that whole growing up process. Children in Christian homes (saved parents and even being saved themselves) go through very similar phases of maturing. The sins they chase may be different, but it seems to be a similar process. Part of the process for getting ready to leave home and stand on their own two feet requires these types of experiences as they are only sinners saved by grace, just like we adults.

Don't let him fool you, he thinks he's a "man" and doesn't need to have you hug and kiss him and tell him you love him...........that's just an act, keep showing your love. Through it all; we kept hugging, kissing and telling them that we loved them and we would pray and cry. Sometimes they'd put on the act like "yuck" don't hug me; I'm "grown up." Well, here we are many years later and we very rarely ever say hi or goodbye without giving each other a hug, a kiss and saying "I love you" (even the two boys who are military veterans now). They are now passing that on to their children. I am confident they will go through similar growing pains and I'm looking forward to God using us to be there in their lives to give good love and advice (even when they think their mom and dad don't understand them). I look forward to being a better grandfather than I was a father. Praise God, he not only gives our children second chances; he gives we parents second chances.

I hope this helps; I know I didn't give Scripture references....but I believe there's a bunch of Scriptural principles God's taught us and brought through, even in these experiences. If you need to just chat or what have you, let me know. We can email, IM or you can have my phone number. Sometimes just venting, praying and having someone listen who's "been there" before can help.

I will pray the best I know how for you and your family.

Peace! TRC

[Anon]

That's actually a really good thought, about that your daughter stayed with a friend for awhile...a trustworthy family of course. As a teen, I didn't get along with my dad at all, and I did spend alot of time (not THAT much, but alot) with a good mentor family that we were close with. Sometimes teenagers can't talk to their parents, but they will talk with a mentor that is just as good as the parents...and sometimes yes, they learn they "aren't the only one" serving God or following rules. Good point.

[deafnva77]

that youth pastor would be good for him if he need a mentor

[BlessedChristianlady8]

John do know My husband and I are Praying for you. It really hurts me to read the rest of this thread because I know how children are today. I'' have more to read and respnd later.

Karrie

[John81]

I mean, it is true that every child is different and has a will, our four children are all very different and some harder to train than others (and none fully successfully yet of course). And also, the longer they go without being saved, the stronger the flesh and the devil are going to be, and fight.

No parent is perfect.... :pray

Yesterday I read something by Pastor Clarence Sexton which pointed out that Adam and Eve in all probability raised Cain and Abel with the same sort of instruction with regards to God, good and evil, being right with God, etc. However, we all know these two sons turned out very different. Cain was self-centered while Abel was God-centered. Same parents, same godly instruction yet one son CHOSE to reject the path of righteousness while the other accepted it.

While in one manner this isn't very comforting, on the other hand it does help to keep things in perspective that in the end, it's our sons own choice that will determine his standing with God. I will continue to do my part as a Christian dad but I must be mindful that only God can soften his heart and draw him to Christ. Even so, I'm yet very :sad

[John81]

do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.

Yes, we do fun things. We go on bike rides, we visit various local parks, we always go someplace for Labor Day, we sometimes take day trips in the summer, we watch select family movies, we work in our garden together, we have church, Sunday School and youth group, we attend family get togethers, etc.

The problem seems to be that he wants to have that part of the world he knows God condemns.

[John81]

I want to thank all of you who have responded. Your prayers, words of advice and encouragement are greatly appreciated.

It's going to be a long road but we are determined to work through this. I know all of your prayers will be a great blessing as only with God's help can we get through this valley and only with God working in our hearts and minds can we ever hope to see good come from this.