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As I step parent I stepped bak and the second oldest whom I have a great relationship with was exposed to pornography through the elder. It was happening for about a year. Before then I knew something was wrong but he had my wife conviced I was out to get him. It was not true I simply want the best for my kids and saw that he was not honest and bullied his mother into his way. I had to save my marriage so I steped back and it all unfolded he even tried to set the house on fire. My wife and his Grandparents decided it would be best if he lived with them. Know we realize we should have had him committed. He is worse now and thinks eveyone owes him something. I tried to do my best and it is in the Lords hands now. Do all you can while he is under your guardianship after he is of age you have virtually no control. Tank



Oh...Tank. This breaks my heart. We "try" as parents to do the best job that we can. Our parents and grandparents did the same thing. You didn't know what else to do. Maybe if you would have had him committed it could be worse? Only Jesus knows the "whole picture" and as the Irish prayer says..."He is holding him in the palm of his hand." Sometimes I feel that the Lord is holding our youth in His arms tightly. :pray



Something for all of us to remember..."Waiting on the Lord speaks of all Christian's private life. Your life behind the door in your personal prayer closet will determine the effectiveness of your life in the eyes of people." (Tom Malone).
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Tank, our son is the same way with thinking everyone owes him. A week or so ago he told me that the doesn't see that myself or his mom have very done anything for him! :-S I asked him who takes care of him when he's sick, who puts a roof over his head, provides a bed for him, keeps his belly full, bought all the stuff he has, takes him out to eat sometimes, etc.

His reply, "Well, I don't think of those things." Said in a very hateful manner.

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Tank, our son is the same way with thinking everyone owes him. A week or so ago he told me that the doesn't see that myself or his mom have very done anything for him! :-S I asked him who takes care of him when he's sick, who puts a roof over his head, provides a bed for him, keeps his belly full, bought all the stuff he has, takes him out to eat sometimes, etc.

His reply, "Well, I don't think of those things." Said in a very hateful manner.



Hey, John. Do you have health insurance so that you can get him evaluated? If so...I would highly recommend some testing. It can't hurt to see if their is an issue. JMHO.
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That's a good point...things like low thyroid or other health problems can cause depression and moodiness.



That is exactly what I was thinking, Kita. It could be a medical issue, and NOT.. psychological. There is so much out there in terms of testing. You can basically get ANYTHING from someone's blood. They have testing for everything now.
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That is exactly what I was thinking, Kita. It could be a medical issue, and NOT.. psychological. There is so much out there in terms of testing. You can basically get ANYTHING from someone's blood. They have testing for everything now.


Quite true, my oldest was VERY moody before we figured out her food allergies. She is like a different person when she dosen't eat right.
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John, So sorry that you and your family are having to go thru this. I know its going to be a very tough road to go down. My prayer is that God will give you all the grace that is needed to deal with this situation. I don't know just what you may have to do, but it may be something that's extremely difficult, just keep leaning on our Lord, He will give you the strength to get thru it and do whatever is necessary.

13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Phil 4:13 (KJV)

19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Phil 4:19 (KJV)

No doubt, many things are to difficult for us, but nothing is to difficult for Him, and He promised never to forsake us or leave us.

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That's a good point...things like low thyroid or other health problems can cause depression and moodiness.


The way he is doesn't come and go, it's ongoing and has been for years. Rather than growing out of it or coming to Christ, it's just getting worse.

We are hoping to be able to get some mental and medical evaluations done at some point, it's just not clear yet when or who will do them.
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John, So sorry that you and your family are having to go thru this. I know its going to be a very tough road to go down. My prayer is that God will give you all the grace that is needed to deal with this situation. I don't know just what you may have to do, but it may be something that's extremely difficult, just keep leaning on our Lord, He will give you the strength to get thru it and do whatever is necessary.

13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Phil 4:13 (KJV)

19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Phil 4:19 (KJV)

No doubt, many things are to difficult for us, but nothing is to difficult for Him, and He promised never to forsake us or leave us.


Thank you Jerry. This is indeed very difficult and the decision to send him to a Christian Youth Recovery Home was a very difficult one to make. Like my wife said, we've done everything we can for him yet he doesn't appreciate it or even see it. As well, we've done all we can for him yet he continually chooses to go against our biblical standards, beliefs and rules (as well as against the Word of God).

At this time we believe he needs full-time supervision and help but it's like his mom told him, if he doesn't take the help offered and work to make the necessary changes he won't get any better and will likely end up in jail or prison.
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Well you are already in "state custody"....so....maybe ask around your church for anyone who knows of a good therapist or psychologist to check him out...?


There is a man at our church who is a former police officer, youth counselor and pastor. He has offered to counsel our son. This man is supposed to be very good and can likely tell us what the problem is.
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Wow, that is a huge blessing! Very gracious of him......


Yes it is. The church he pastored decided to consolidate with their sending church so they closed the doors and now all attend the sending church. He felt led to remain where he was, not to pursue further patoring at this time, and he came to our church. Now he leads AWANA at our church, drives a school bus and substitute teaches at the high school.
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Has this recent discovery of the hate list changed the social worker's mind about the veracity of your son's accusations?


The social workers don't know about this yet. The woman who is in charge of our case should be here on Friday.

My Dad said if these people had any smarts at all they would reconsider all this but they probably won't.

I'll just have to wait and see what they think about it all come Friday.

We were discussing the anger management classes they say I have to take the last time she was here. She told me the reason the preparation session (more like an interview) for those classes can take so long (the anger management lady told me one and a half to two and a half hours!) is because we will have to go over my history of violence. I told her the meeting shouldn't last long at all then since I have no history of violence.

My wife affirmed to these people that I've never hit her or threatened her and that I've never abused the children but that seems to mean nothing to them. :roll

They seem to just take the childs word, regardless of what the parents say, and regardless of the fact there is no evidence of me being violent, having anger problems or having a violent history.

Truth and reality seem to have little meaning to them.

Which reminds me...when the social worker asked us about rules that we have I mentioned the Ten Commandments. She stated that the Ten Commandments can't be kept and are therefore unrealistic and not really appropriate as a basis for the rules of our home! :eek
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The social workers don't know about this yet. The woman who is in charge of our case should be here on Friday.

My Dad said if these people had any smarts at all they would reconsider all this but they probably won't.

I'll just have to wait and see what they think about it all come Friday.

We were discussing the anger management classes they say I have to take the last time she was here. She told me the reason the preparation session (more like an interview) for those classes can take so long (the anger management lady told me one and a half to two and a half hours!) is because we will have to go over my history of violence. I told her the meeting shouldn't last long at all then since I have no history of violence.

My wife affirmed to these people that I've never hit her or threatened her and that I've never abused the children but that seems to mean nothing to them. :roll

They seem to just take the childs word, regardless of what the parents say, and regardless of the fact there is no evidence of me being violent, having anger problems or having a violent history.

Truth and reality seem to have little meaning to them.

Which reminds me...when the social worker asked us about rules that we have I mentioned the Ten Commandments. She stated that the Ten Commandments can't be kept and are therefore unrealistic and not really appropriate as a basis for the rules of our home! :eek


Well at least the social worker got it right about not being able to keep the Law......she's ripe to hear about Jesus being our righteousness!
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Well at least the social worker got it right about not being able to keep the Law......she's ripe to hear about Jesus being our righteousness!


Sadly, she seems to have a dim view of Christianity and perhaps a hardened spirit about it.

This woman, who is supposed to make sure we have our lives together or get it together, is divorced, makes fun of her new husbands name (Leslie), admits she treats her two children very differently, refuses to cook even if no one else is around to cook (she either orders out or tells everybody to eat cereal), thought brown cows is where chocolate milk came from until she was in her teens...etc.
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My advice, John...is to get away from this social worker. ASAP. If they are tied to the state and government...I smell a rat already. Actually, I think the man from your church who wanted to help with counseling is the better choice. IMHO. Also, as far as health insurance goes? Have you ever heard of the "Christian Brotherhood"? My in-laws have had them for years and it has been the biggest blessing for them. With my FIL being self-employed and the # of children they raised, and are still raising, it would have been an unbelievable amount of money spent on health insurance for all these years. The "Christian Brotherhood" has been there for many Christians over the years. :amen:

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The social workers don't know about this yet. The woman who is in charge of our case should be here on Friday.

My Dad said if these people had any smarts at all they would reconsider all this but they probably won't.

I'll just have to wait and see what they think about it all come Friday.

We were discussing the anger management classes they say I have to take the last time she was here. She told me the reason the preparation session (more like an interview) for those classes can take so long (the anger management lady told me one and a half to two and a half hours!) is because we will have to go over my history of violence. I told her the meeting shouldn't last long at all then since I have no history of violence.

My wife affirmed to these people that I've never hit her or threatened her and that I've never abused the children but that seems to mean nothing to them. :roll

They seem to just take the childs word, regardless of what the parents say, and regardless of the fact there is no evidence of me being violent, having anger problems or having a violent history.

Truth and reality seem to have little meaning to them.

Which reminds me...when the social worker asked us about rules that we have I mentioned the Ten Commandments. She stated that the Ten Commandments can't be kept and are therefore unrealistic and not really appropriate as a basis for the rules of our home! :eek


I would have asked her how many of the commandments she could name. :lol Has your son expressed to you just what it is he wants? I mean, does he understand the consequences that he is a minor and he will have to be under SOMEONES authority regardless until he is 18? If he wants to remain in your care there are some things he is going to need to comply with because at some point you may not be able to fight state intervention. If he is trying to fight you because he wants to leave then I think your idea of getting him full-time help living elsewhere for a while may be the best bet. Otherwise his antics may just escalate. How scary and frustrating. Will continue to pray for your son and family, John. Please keep us updated. I'm so sorry you are having to go through all of this. How is your health issues? Are you doing ok? Let us know if there is anything else we can pray for you about.
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I'm just thinking with my keyboard. But there is no way to get clear of this social worker except to move to another state and they not no where you've gone to.

Now if you were able to move to another state, them you could get whatever type help you thought was right, like sending him to that place in Missouri you have spoken of and or they might be something else some where.

But many people do not have the resources to do such thing, for that could be very costly, I know I wouldn't have it.

I'm trying to look on the bright side of this, at least all of this has come about before something bad and drastic happened. Many times that is not the case.

What the social worker said sounds about normal for a none Christian social worker, but I don't know if they would let a true Christians be a social worker. Seems she is again teaching children not to lie or murder or steal.

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My advice' date=' John...is to get away from this social worker. ASAP. If they are tied to the state and government...I smell a rat already. Actually, I think the man from your church who wanted to help with counseling is the better choice. IMHO. Also, as far as health insurance goes? Have you ever heard of the "Christian Brotherhood"? My in-laws have had them for years and it has been the biggest blessing for them. With my FIL being self-employed and the # of children they raised, and are still raising, it would have been an unbelievable amount of money spent on health insurance for all these years. The "Christian Brotherhood" has been there for many Christians over the years. :amen:[/quote']

The social worker was appointed to us by the state. She works for Children and Family Services, or whatever they call themselves these days. She has to approve who counsels our son according to whatever state guidelines she has to follow. She's not a counselor, just a caseworker who, by state regulations, must stop by and ask us a myriad of pointless questions.

Never heard of the Christian Brotherhood but I will check into that.

Thank you.
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I would have asked her how many of the commandments she could name. :lol Has your son expressed to you just what it is he wants? I mean, does he understand the consequences that he is a minor and he will have to be under SOMEONES authority regardless until he is 18? If he wants to remain in your care there are some things he is going to need to comply with because at some point you may not be able to fight state intervention. If he is trying to fight you because he wants to leave then I think your idea of getting him full-time help living elsewhere for a while may be the best bet. Otherwise his antics may just escalate. How scary and frustrating. Will continue to pray for your son and family, John. Please keep us updated. I'm so sorry you are having to go through all of this. How is your health issues? Are you doing ok? Let us know if there is anything else we can pray for you about.


I'm trying hard to make sure I don't seem confrontational or argumentative about anything. One of their state stipulations is that we "cooperate fully" so I've been minding my tongue.

Tim says he wants to stay with us but my wife and I really believe that's no longer an option. He knows the rules, knows right from wrong yet continually chooses to go against them and we really have no way of changing that. With the continual escalation of the seriousness of the wrongs/sins he's doing we are fearing that he may end up hurting someone or himself, or (God forbid :pray ) killing someone.

He's convinced that anything he decides to do is okay and justified simply because he wanted to do it. He views those who question or try to stop him from doing what he wants to do as being wrong and his enemies. He believes his lies are true because that's what he wants to believe.

I warned him just a week ago about the serious nature of all this stuff he's brought upon us. I told him that if he got into any trouble at school or elsewhere the police or government workers would come in and take him away and his mom and I couldn't stop it. When I reminded him of this he just said, "I don't remember you saying that." Which is what he always says when I remind him or ask him about something I've told him about. The simple fact is, he doesn't pay attention and only bothers to remember or think about what he wants to.

It's very sad and frustrating but for some reason he's hardened his heart. Even after the police talking with him, myself talking with him and his mother talking with him and explaining how serious and wrong his "death list" was he refuses to acknowledge it as such and continues to insist there was nothing wrong with it. He has shown not a tiniest bit of remorse or sorrow, let alone any understanding of guilt. In his mind, he's right in whatever he does and all others are wrong and just out to get him.

I truly appreciate your prayers. I do believe the prayers of my brothers and sisters here have been a major factor in sustaining me/us through this tragedy.

I'm feeling okay right now. Friday I have x-rays taken and a doctors appointment to see if we got all of the kidney stone out of my system. Please pray the stone is completely gone and no further treatments or surgeries will be needed.

My wife needs to have an MRI on her right knee, which will most likely need surgery.

Please pray we may be able to get Tim into a good Christian home for youth that may help him.
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Please pray we may be able to get Tim into a good Christian home for youth that may help him.



John...why don't you contact Dr. Jack High at "Solid Rock" (let him you know me from Cleveland, OH)? I will PM you with my last name. He will know that last name! LOL. One of My BIL's went on a missionary trip to Mexico with him years ago. Also, my old IFB church supports them.


He might be able to direct you in the right path for Tim. Dr. High was a troubled youth himself. He and his wife have helped countless girls...and now the boys' home. :amen: They are an off-shoot of Lester Roloff and another IFB man (the name is escaping me) that other's would know. They are good Christian men! God bless you and your family. :Bible:
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In all His long ages of time, God is at
work for our good. In prosperity, He
tests our gratitude; in mediocrity, He
tests our contentment; in misfortune, He
tests our submission; in darkness, He
tests our faith; in the middle of
temptation, He tests our steadfastness;
and at all times, He tests our obedience
and trust in Him.

-Author Unknown

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Well I just received a phone call from the high school principal and Tim has been expelled for 10 days pending a board hearing. According to him the policy the board must follow means Tim will be expelled completely at the board hearing.

There is some form of alternative school, where they send the trouble makers, that Tim can attend if he goes through a psychiatric evaluation (and passes) at a hospital 90 some miles from here. If we were to go that route, he would have to attend that school for one year with no problems before he would be allowed to return to the regular high school.

Earlier today I spoke with the Christian home in Missouri and they said it will take them about 5-10 business days to process things and set up an interview with us.

This Christian home has their own Christian school, church, etc. They have job assignments for everyone, everyone must attend school, chapel, and there are various Bible study groups and other programs and helps.

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Well I just received a phone call from the high school principal and Tim has been expelled for 10 days pending a board hearing. According to him the policy the board must follow means Tim will be expelled completely at the board hearing.

There is some form of alternative school, where they send the trouble makers, that Tim can attend if he goes through a psychiatric evaluation (and passes) at a hospital 90 some miles from here. If we were to go that route, he would have to attend that school for one year with no problems before he would be allowed to return to the regular high school.

Earlier today I spoke with the Christian home in Missouri and they said it will take them about 5-10 business days to process things and set up an interview with us.

This Christian home has their own Christian school, church, etc. They have job assignments for everyone, everyone must attend school, chapel, and there are various Bible study groups and other programs and helps.


Will pray that the Christian home gets back with you asap, and that the social worker will back off and let you do what you think is best for your son.
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Well' date=' it's not likely right at this point, but I hope being expelled gives him a bit of a jolt. John, do you think Tim wants to go to the Christian home?[/quote']

Well, I basically told him he could choose to go to the Christian home if we can get him in there or he could refuse and let the police or social workers choose some place for him to go. He chose the Christian home.

I pray the social workers won't try to block us from sending him to the Christian home or try to cause any other kind of trouble for us; like taking Tim away or anything else.
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Well, I'm glad he chose the home. I was just thinking that if he really didn't want to go he could cause all kinds of trouble.

You know, if he tells the social worker that he wants to go there, they could just back off. Will be praying about it.
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