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John81

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We'll have to have another talk, or more, with him. He really wants to stay here, but we don't really see that as an option that's good for him, or anyone else really, at this time. That's why I told him he could choose the Christian home or the police or social workers would choose a place for him (foster home, detention center, boys home, jail,).

Once it sinks in that he can't return to high school I think that will make it a bit easier for him to accept...I hope.
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John, I think it's a good sign that he wants to stay at home. Perhaps he thinks he will be able to continue to get away with things, but I think deep down inside he's scared. He is still a little boy, even though he's almost 15. He's trying to be older than he is by being tough and defiant. My heart goes out to you and your wife - and both of your boys. Each of you is hurting in different ways. Know that the God of all comfort is with you, my friend.

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[quote="HappyChristian"]John, I think it's a good sign that he wants to stay at home. Perhaps he thinks he will be able to continue to get away with things, but I think deep down inside he's scared. He is still a little boy, even though he's almost 15. He's trying to be older than he is by being tough and defiant. My heart goes out to you and your wife - and both of your boys. Each of you is hurting in different ways. Know that the God of all comfort is with you, my friend.[/quote]

Thank you so much. Your words, prayers and friendship are a true blessing.

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Yes...LuAnne, I was thinking the same thing myself. John...I will keep you ALL in constant prayer. May Our gracious God and Saviour...lead, guide, and direct you and your wife. :pray May God bless you with this whole situation.
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I can't imagine....I know but for the grace of God I may be here someday, I hope not....but feeling for your troubles very deeply as I have boys that are strong willed...and I know you must be so hurt right now, and hopeless feeling. God will work this out...
:pray

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I can't imagine....I know but for the grace of God I may be here someday, I hope not....but feeling for your troubles very deeply as I have boys that are strong willed...and I know you must be so hurt right now, and hopeless feeling. God will work this out...
:pray



I have a "strong-willed" son myself. Just like both of his parents. :smile


:hijack: He just applied to Ohio University, tonight. :eek Down in Athens, OH. He was all set up to go to OSU. OSU, Miami (of OH)...and now OU? Those are his choices in order of preference... VIA his dad...b/c his dad is paying the tuition. I was very comfortable with Miami. hehe. I need some prayers...as well. :smile You know...stock-pile them in advance? LOL.


We all need a "direct pipeline" up to the Lord Jesus Christ. Well...as my pastor says, we forget about what God does for us ALL...on His own...in His own timing. :pray :Bible:
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I can't begin to list you all by name, but you know who you are since you've been making the posts here :Green , but I want you all to know how much it means to me that you care, are moved by this, and are in prayer for us.

I've received such a large amount of encouragement from y'all, as has my wife as she really appreciates all your prayers as well.

Just knowing y'all are praying for us gives us a greater sense of hope and helps to strengthen me through all of this and to keep my eye on Jesus, my Rock and my Shield.

Thank you all so very, very much!!!

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if he expelled and you decided not to send him to a home. You could talk to the social worker into homeschooling again.
Personally, I think it's better than sending him to a school for trouble boys.. but I don't know.

i agree that could be that he is scared and don't know how to pick up the pieces he broken. It might help if you tell him we'll try again tomorrow and have a fresh start and forget what happen today. but I don't know. My own son gets in a cycle where once he got himself in trouble, he doesn't know how to end it. It like he feels bad that he got himself into it in the first place and just basically want to give up trying, probably just want to hide forever or something. He's a real nervous little guy. I usually give him award sheet though (he is 7 years old) and it seem to help him alot.

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if he expelled and you decided not to send him to a home. You could talk to the social worker into homeschooling again.
Personally, I think it's better than sending him to a school for trouble boys.. but I don't know.

i agree that could be that he is scared and don't know how to pick up the pieces he broken. It might help if you tell him we'll try again tomorrow and have a fresh start and forget what happen today. but I don't know. My own son gets in a cycle where once he got himself in trouble, he doesn't know how to end it. It like he feels bad that he got himself into it in the first place and just basically want to give up trying, probably just want to hide forever or something. He's a real nervous little guy. I usually give him award sheet though (he is 7 years old) and it seem to help him alot.


We are going to return to homeschooling while we wait to find out more about the Christian Youth Recovery Program.

The Christian Home we want to send him to isn't filled with just troubled boys. There are also local children who attend the school as well as other children. It's not a boys home either, there are boys and girls in attendance, but naturally they have separate housing and appropriate separation is maintained.

The problems with him have been ongoing for years and building rather than getting better. My wife and I had hoped and prayed he would grow out of some of this and that he would accept Christ as his Saviour but neither have happened. Instead, he's become more defiant and more insistent that it should be okay for him to do whatever he wants simpley because he wants to and that any rules that go against what he wants are not something he cares to obey.

He has specifically rejected accepting Christ as his Saviour because he wants to do whatever he wants to do rather than obey the Word of God. :sad
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We are going to return to homeschooling while we wait to find out more about the Christian Youth Recovery Program.

The Christian Home we want to send him to isn't filled with just troubled boys. There are also local children who attend the school as well as other children. It's not a boys home either, there are boys and girls in attendance, but naturally they have separate housing and appropriate separation is maintained.

The problems with him have been ongoing for years and building rather than getting better. My wife and I had hoped and prayed he would grow out of some of this and that he would accept Christ as his Saviour but neither have happened. Instead, he's become more defiant and more insistent that it should be okay for him to do whatever he wants simpley because he wants to and that any rules that go against what he wants are not something he cares to obey.

He has specifically rejected accepting Christ as his Saviour because he wants to do whatever he wants to do rather than obey the Word of God. :sad


So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.
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So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.



I was thinking the same thing...bzmomo7. I have used this one with my son. I have taken him to the inner-city where I used to teach and told him that he could live there (the projects). I put him out of the car at an orphanage when he was in his ferocious 4's. I took him to city hall once to talk to a police officer when he was 12. He thinks his dad is though? LOL. Hmmm...I have done some other things. He called me "evil" to the family for about 6 months when he was younger. hehe. A Christian friend of mine told me that if your child doesn't say that they hate you...at least once...or do something that would really shock you to know end...then, you better improve your parenting skills. :lol: She has 3 kids of her own. They tow the line.


John...I think you and your wife are doing the right thing. Just stay strong and keep up the good work!! :wave:
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Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

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Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.



:goodpost: LuAnne. Yes..I have heard that this is effective. It is called..."Scared Straight."
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A Christian friend of mine told me that if your child doesn't say that they hate you...at least once...or do something that would really shock you to know end...then, you better improve your parenting skills. She has 3 kids of her own. They tow the line.


That would make sense if the child is used to getting his way all the time. Although a child shouldn't use the word hate.. but some will just stamp his feet or groan or argue.
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When I was Youth Pastor (many many years ago) in Upstate New York I used to take the troubled male teenagers to the local county sheriff's jail (I was the Prison Minister too) and we did the Scared Straight routine. The young man would be processed and spend a good portion of the day with the staff and select inmates who had been saved for a bit.

The real shocker for most of them was the full body search, the loss of freedom when the doors closed behind them and the lack of a door for using the toilet. Most came out of that with a changed attitude. You have to be careful with this though as remember, inmates are there for a reason!

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So, he doesn't feel remorse over his choices........how does he feel about the consequences of them? Is he unhappy about negative consequences or does he feel "it was worth it"--getting to do what he wanted? If it were the latter, I'd think your choice of the Christian home, at least for the time being, is a good idea. Maybe your son needs to see from the other side of the fence, what a very good home he comes from, and how lucky he is.


No, no remorse over his choices, not even an admition he did wrong or acknowledging that he made wrong choices.

As to the consequences, they have never seemed to bother him other than the fact he thinks he's being wrongly punished. He seems to figure that the since the consequences come after he's already done what he wanted they don't matter and he knows as soon as he decides to do something else he shouldn't that he'll just do it with no regard of the consequences. So yeah, I'd say he feels "it was worth it" because he doesn't care about the consequences.
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He's never been inside a prison, but we have looked at two different prisons from the outside. One a max prison that looks like an ancient fort and one a medium prison where you could see the convicts on the yard. He's also seen real prisons on TV.

He absolutely doesn't want to go to prison, however he always feels justified in doing what he shouldn't be doing so he never thinks such will happen to him.

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My mom said that I was the only child of her 4 children that said that to her. She made me feel real bad, too...for saying that. I NEVER would have said that to my dad, though. LOL. My mom told me when I became an adult that she was a rebel with her mom, too. She loves the statement..."Revenge is being a grandparent." She says it jokingly, though. Well...as the old saying goes "The apple doesn't fall to far from the tree." Ya, know. When he told me this...I replied..."I am so sorry to hear that Mark...because I love you very, very much. Words can't even express my love for you." He was stunned and amazed to here me say these words. He was very young, and I took it for what it was worth. Frustration/anger with his dad and I being divorced. Whatever works is my motto with each child that a parent raises. Mark's half sister Sarah is so different. I have NEVER had any trouble with her. Her parents have, though. LOL. Go figure. hehe.


Yes...deafvna...the tantrums are another big issue, too. :smile
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No, no remorse over his choices, not even an admition he did wrong or acknowledging that he made wrong choices.

As to the consequences, they have never seemed to bother him other than the fact he thinks he's being wrongly punished. He seems to figure that the since the consequences come after he's already done what he wanted they don't matter and he knows as soon as he decides to do something else he shouldn't that he'll just do it with no regard of the consequences. So yeah, I'd say he feels "it was worth it" because he doesn't care about the consequences.


That's what I thought I was hearing from your other posts--I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading into them. I'm sorry, John, what a heartbreak it must be for you and your wife. Will pray fervently for Tim's salvation. Is your other son saved? I'm not even sure how old he is?
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When I was Youth Pastor (many many years ago) in Upstate New York I used to take the troubled male teenagers to the local county sheriff's jail (I was the Prison Minister too) and we did the Scared Straight routine. The young man would be processed and spend a good portion of the day with the staff and select inmates who had been saved for a bit.

The real shocker for most of them was the full body search, the loss of freedom when the doors closed behind them and the lack of a door for using the toilet. Most came out of that with a changed attitude. You have to be careful with this though as remember, inmates are there for a reason!



From what I understand "Scared Straight" has always had a high success rate. I don't know the current success rates, though. Yes...there is always a Prison Minister. I can see you doing this trc. :eek


The juvenile correctional facitlies in OH...have a non-denominational pastor, but...IFB pastors can preach to the teens here. I went to one with my church youth...and a missionary IFB gave the sermon...2 young ladies were saved that night. Praise the Lord! :)
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Hey, John - as I was reading this and thinking about consequences I thought about something I've heard done. Have you ever considered taking him to visit a prison? I don't know if there is one around you, but if there is, maybe you could talk to the warden and you guys could tour the parts that the public can see. I remember visiting one once (not because I was in trouble, okay? :Green ). It was sobering even at my young age to feel the doors closing behind me and knowing that if I were a prisoner here I wouldn't be leaving. It's not something that will draw him to Christ, necessarily, but it might help him to understand more fully the consequences of actions. Especially if you just talk to him a little bit about how breaking rules and doing our own thing at home usually leads to breaking laws and doing our own thing in society which in turn leads to prison. And no-one in their right minds would want to live in a cage.

Don't know if this would help, but thought I'd throw it into the mix.


Even the country jail would do. :thumb
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I have a good friend whose grandson got into some kind of trouble, it saddened my heart.

His mother died of cancer a few years back and I visited her in her home for about 2 years, of course doing this I was around their son Jeffery quite a bit.

But Jeffery went thru so much, his mother died when he was about 13 or 14. One night he saw his dad hold a gun to his mothers head and say, "Get up and walk or I'll kill you." At this time she could not ever stand on her own.

Them he turned the gun to his head and said, "Get up and walk or I'll kill myself."

Finally he left with Jeffery and his younger daughter who was about 2 at the time telling her she would never see them again. Long story short, she did get to see here children many times after that.

Jeffery was sent to a military type school, after graduation he entered the Army, and now is in Iraq. According to his grandmother the military type school helped a lot.

There is just no easy answers to such a problem.

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There is a military school nearby where I live a boarding school too. http://www.fishburne.org I wouldn't say it is christian but here are some christian ones:

http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/chr ... chools.php

Not that I think you are interested in it , but I thought I would just let you know because I have seen military school straightened some boys up.

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That's what I thought I was hearing from your other posts--I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading into them. I'm sorry, John, what a heartbreak it must be for you and your wife. Will pray fervently for Tim's salvation. Is your other son saved? I'm not even sure how old he is?


Our youngest son, Travis, is 10. He's not saved but he's somewhat developmentally behind so I don't think he can fully grasp the concept of salvation yet. He does know who Jesus is and what He did for us but I don't think he fully grasps it. He loves Bible stories, loves the few Bible-related DVDs we have and he loves church. Generally, he's well behaved and really hates it on the rare occasion he does get into real trouble. He's quick to repent and expresses real sorrow for doing wrong.

So yes, Tim indeed needs fervent prayer for salvation, and Travis still needs to come to Christ as well.

Your prayers are most appreciated! Thank you!!!
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There is a military school nearby where I live a boarding school too. http://www.fishburne.org I wouldn't say it is christian but here are some christian ones:

http://www.boardingschoolreview.com/chr ... chools.php

Not that I think you are interested in it , but I thought I would just let you know because I have seen military school straightened some boys up.


We had thought about a military school some time back but when we saw the cost of sending someone to those, WOW! :-S :eek

Anyway, at this point I do believe it's his heart that really needs attention so a Christian environment is most needful.
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Unbelievable!!!

The two social worker women were here yesterday. I told them about Tim being expelled from school and why. We also received a certified letter from the school yesterday stating the official reasong for expelling him. It stated Tim had "threatened to blow up the school, shoot people and made a "hit list"". I showed this to the social workers as well. They asked what Tim's response was and I told them at first he claimed it was just a joke. Without even letting me continue, BOTH women chimed in almost in stereo, "Well, he probably was just joking". Even after I told them what the police had to say and what the principle had to say they tried to make light of the situation as if he hadn't really done anything all that wrong :eek :puzzled:

When we mentioned considering sending him to a Christian Youth Recovery Program they claimed that was "drastic" and when they asked for examples of Tim not minding his mother my wife told them on occasions when I'm out of the house and he's supposed to be in his room doing his schoolwork, he'll continually come downstairs and mess around (often four or five times) and she (my wife) will have to tell him repeatedly and for several minutes to get back upstairs and do his work before he'll mosey back up the stairs for a bit and then come back down again and repeat the process.

The social workers response, "Well, he's 14, that's to be expected." :eek :puzzled:

It seems to these social workers kids can do no wrong and any problems are because of the parents! They both implied that after talking with Tim about four times the past month for about 10 minutes each that they know him better than my wife, myself, our pastor or our youth pastor, and that they know what's best for him and none of us do!

There is no talking with these people, there is no reasoning with them because they are convinced the child is virtually perfect or something and the parents don't have the best interest of the child in mind.

Please continue to pray for us.

Also, I found out yesterday that part of that huge kidney stone they blasted two weeks ago is still there. Tuesday I have to go to the hospital to have dye injected into me through an IV and have more x-rays taken. Then they want to schedual me for another round of kidney stone blasting.

It really feels as if our family is under seige and we are facing almost constant bombardment.

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Unbelievable!!!

The two social worker women were here yesterday. I told them about Tim being expelled from school and why. We also received a certified letter from the school yesterday stating the official reasong for expelling him. It stated Tim had "threatened to blow up the school, shoot people and made a "hit list"". I showed this to the social workers as well. They asked what Tim's response was and I told them at first he claimed it was just a joke. Without even letting me continue, BOTH women chimed in almost in stereo, "Well, he probably was just joking". Even after I told them what the police had to say and what the principle had to say they tried to make light of the situation as if he hadn't really done anything all that wrong :eek :puzzled:

When we mentioned considering sending him to a Christian Youth Recovery Program they claimed that was "drastic" and when they asked for examples of Tim not minding his mother my wife told them on occasions when I'm out of the house and he's supposed to be in his room doing his schoolwork, he'll continually come downstairs and mess around (often four or five times) and she (my wife) will have to tell him repeatedly and for several minutes to get back upstairs and do his work before he'll mosey back up the stairs for a bit and then come back down again and repeat the process.

The social workers response, "Well, he's 14, that's to be expected." :eek :puzzled:

It seems to these social workers kids can do no wrong and any problems are because of the parents! They both implied that after talking with Tim about four times the past month for about 10 minutes each that they know him better than my wife, myself, our pastor or our youth pastor, and that they know what's best for him and none of us do!
There is no talking with these people, there is no reasoning with them because they are convinced the child is virtually perfect or something and the parents don't have the best interest of the child in mind.

Please continue to pray for us.

Also, I found out yesterday that part of that huge kidney stone they blasted two weeks ago is still there. Tuesday I have to go to the hospital to have dye injected into me through an IV and have more x-rays taken. Then they want to schedual me for another round of kidney stone blasting.

It really feels as if our family is under seige and we are facing almost constant bombardment.



I'll keep praying for you brother. It is truly sad when the state thinks they know a child better than the parents (another sign of the endtimes?).

IMO, (and I'm still learning) I believe you are under attack (and I bet you feel the same) as Satan will try to tell you that you are wrong for following God. Satan hates true believers, but that, according to my pastor doesn't always mean he will stop attacking. If there is a "weak spot" (lack of better words for me), such the difficulties with your son, then unfortunately Satan will try to attack there. This has no reflection on you and your faith or walk with God. I believe you are trying to do the right thing and Satan is just trying to mess it up.

My ex's oldest son was in and out of our house when we were married...addicted to drugs and alcohol...in and out of jail, dropped out of high school. Some "experts" tried to tell us he was just "expressing himself" over the death of his father...however, all of that began way before that. I never bought into that line of thinking and still don't. It is just sad that the social workers reacted the way they did when you mentioned a Christian Recovery program...just shows how far Christ has been removed from so many facets of society.

Keep the faith and remain strong. God will get you through. :pray
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Oh wow....what horrible social workers.

Have you ever considered contacting the Christian Law Association? If they try to keep you from doing what needs to be done with your son, definitely contact them to see if they can help. Or even the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. They may be able to help even more.

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Terrible. If they wanted to be parents, they should just take him away.

But anyway, are they willing to let you homeschool since the school expel him?

They probably will try to justify it to the school and even explain that this kid have been abuse so give him a chance.

repeat Running away, lying about parental abuse, death list is a sure sign that he need to go to a recovery program.
Does he get in a fist fight with his brother (well, that's usually normal for brothers) ? Does he blow up and knock everything down? They may say it's drastic but did they say no you can't do that? social workers will say stuffs to make you think you are not allow to do anything.

You need to call someone. I do n't know who, but you need to have someone to tell these social workers to back off.

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The only person who can make them back off would be some sort of lawyer or something I think....that's why I'm thinking call one of the Chrisitian law firms or something...or find someone in the area that gives free consults and ask advice. Tell the social workers next time you have a lawyer and they might think twice about how they act. Right now, they know you are at their mercy. If you want to keep your kid, they can tell you to flip backwards off a skyscraper and you'd do it....

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Man' date=' that stinks that they ONLY believe the child, with NO evidence. Children who truly are abused as your son said would have some marks or scarring. Sad.[/quote']

Sadly I have seen this type of thing happen in my line of work with Vunerable adult and minors. It seems like when there is no evidence at all the social workers are all over it, but when their is strong complaints and evidence for abuse physical and sexual the don;t even seem to look into the matter. Anyway I will be praying John81 I just seen this topic this morning otherwise I would have responded sooner. God bless. :)
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