Agreement/disagreement With The Pastor

[MountainChristian]

As you can see on many many many threads here what it's like when a fellow minister disagrees with another minister how upset they become and how they dig in their heels. Now think what its like when someone lower on religion ladder disagrees, a whole leg dug in. Feel free to give him the last word if he disagrees with you, most ministers need that for their ego. 

 

I wonder if they left that topic off their web page to get visitors........

[GraceSaved]

I'm not sure if there is a disagreement yet. I asked him a question but he couldn't answer at that time and offered to get together with me. I have no intentions of arguing or debating, and I don't think he does either, but just get into scripture and compare our beliefs. I'm doing this before I decide to make a commitment to fellowship with or be a member of that church, especially since I bring my kids with me. I think it's important to know what their core beliefs are so I know exactly what I'm getting into. Whatever happens, I know God has my best interest at heart and he knows my intentions and desires. I believe he will work it out and place me where he wants me. There's gotta be a light at the end of this tunnel at some point.

[StillSaintNow]

I would be looking for another church if I found out my pastor did not hold to the security of the believer.  People who go off into this kind of teaching are mixing in works as a qualifer for salvation,.  No further need for discussion with that pastor.  I would tell that pastor he is wrong, and there is nothing wrong with you telling him that.  He's not likely to budge and will be well prepared with a long list of twisted scripture passages to support his erroneous position.   Meeting with him is most likely a waste of time.

[GraceSaved]

I would be looking for another church if I found out my pastor did not hold to the security of the believer.  People who go off into this kind of teaching are mixing in works as a qualifer for salvation,.  No further need for discussion with that pastor.  I would tell that pastor he is wrong, and there is nothing wrong with you telling him that.  He's not likely to budge and will be well prepared with a long list of twisted scripture passages to support his erroneous position.   Meeting with him is most likely a waste of time.

I already made the appt.  Reason being, he wasn't able to discuss it at the time and I don't know what he believes yet.  That's why we're meeting.  But I will absolutely not go back if he doesn't believe in security because that just sets the tone for all sermons.

[Salyan]

I find DaveW to be rude quite often in his responses, yet he is not always rebuked or rebuked enough.

We must learn a little respectful decorum here or it just doesn't benefit anyone.

Again, let's stop the personal remarks. Thank you.

[Alimantado]

I already made the appt.  Reason being, he wasn't able to discuss it at the time and I don't know what he believes yet.  That's why we're meeting.  But I will absolutely not go back if he doesn't believe in security because that just sets the tone for all sermons.

 

Good for you GS. Been some really good advice on here, which I've taken on board too (thanks!). I just want to add that, for all the pastor may not change his mind, the appointment isn't going to cost you anything and giving the pastor the opportunity to make his stance very clear is a gracious thing to do.

[paid4]

Grace, Keep the appointment and don't fret about anything. Maybe God will use you to plant a seed in his life. This may be a transitional beginning for this pastor to accept the eternal aspect of salvation. If he converts his mind on this matter, then you've helped him to understand something that is most precious to everyone that believes.

 

I have sat through one of these meetings before. The pastor I talked to believes that he is saved eternally but stated that if someone just flat out quit believing in God or Jesus that he would be lost and go to hell. It sounds good in theory BUT if you truly believed and understand who Jesus is then you cannot go to hell if you wanted to.

 

The plan that Jesus Christ set before us is EXCLUSIVE. One way in and no way out. By the way, Satan cannot say that if you believe in me then you can come to where I am also. What Satan thinks about ANYTHING don't matter.

[AVBibleBeliever]

If I was lying in my last statement then it is wrong to mention any name.  However I am not lying and it is seen in some of his responses in the "how old is the earth" thread.

 

I was so offended at his replies I just stopped reading them all together.

 

here a mod is speaking about people being rude and rebuking them but I have not seen anyone rebuke this person for being rude in responses to my across the board with impunity and likes by the mods as well.

[HappyChristian]

I believe salyan said enough, AVBB....so, enough. And that means drop it...Back to topic.

[GraceSaved]

So I had the meeting. I'm very pleased with the spirit of the meeting being fellowship-like and coming together to share our beliefs, backgrounds and understanding of scripture, sharing our faith and experiences and getting to know each other on a personal level. It wasn't about this is right or this is wrong. Afterward, they thanked me for inviting them and told me they enjoyed our time together and that it helps them with their own faith when others share their perspectives and enriches their own understanding, etc.

I found out he's not a pastor but he believes his calling is to evangelize and they are currently looking for someone to be an elder of their assembly.

This is what he believes in a nutshell about eternal security. He believes God is always faithful even when we are not but God allows us to choose if we want to continue in the faith. If we choose to walk away from the faith, we are no longer trusting in God's grace, since it is by grace through faith that we are saved, therefore, that person can fall away by their own choice by no longer believing and trusting in God. It is not God taking away salvation, but our choice, even after once we believed, to deny grace by walking away from the faith. Does that make sense?

[DaveW]

Yep, all clear.
Time to go.
Glad it was a good meeting - and now you know for certain.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

The biggest prOBlem with the idea that one can choose to stop believing and walk away, is that

it makes Jesus a liar,
" shall not come into condemnation"

And God's Word a lie
(Above) and "sealed until the day of redemption of the purchased possession"

[GraceSaved]

SFIC: How do we reconcile scriptures referring to apostasy? Isn't the definition to renounce and turn away from a belief? If we turn away, it is not God turning from us and breaking promises but us choosing to turn from him. He doesn't force us but gives us free will. Eternal security is secure as long as we don't turn away from faith. Without faith there is no longer grace. If we receive grace through faith, where is grace when there is no longer faith? Isn't apostasy basically blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which is the unpardonable sin? Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is rejection of salvation. It is the only unforgivable sin. You can't have salvation if you reject it, even if you once believed.

For example, the children in the wilderness. Those people acted out in faith when they walked through the red sea. They partook of the daily manna, etc. but then turned away from God, turned to idols and eventually were destroyed.

(Paraphrasing) Another example is when Jesus was preaching about we shall drink his blood and eat his flesh, many who were following could not accept this teaching, not even the apostles because Jesus asked them will you turn away too? Some chose to stop following while the apostles continued. See the difference? You can choose to continue walking in faith or choose to walk away from it.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Jesus said those who believe would not come into condemnation. 

I have to trust that.  I also know that He said that He would send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) and that the Comforter would what?

Guide us into all truth.

Now the enigma... How does one who is guided into all truth to stop believing?  How can one stop believing when the Spirit is shewing all things to the Believer that Jesus is giving Him to give to the Believer.


I say it is an impossibility for one to stop believing once one is saved.

If they are able to walk away and stop believing, they never truly believed in the first place.  They received Word on stony ground and did not allow it to change their heart and mind. 

And hence that person falling into apostasy.  A true child of God will not fall into apostasy.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Question:  What is the "purchased possession" 
Answer  :  The man who has trusted Christ

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Question:  Who is the possessor? 
Answer  :  God

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Question:  Can I break the seal of Ephesians 1:13?
Answer  :  Not without making God's Word a lie

Question:  Will God break the seal if I fall at any time?
Answer  :  Not without making His Word a lie

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Until the day of redemption of the purchased possession assures us that the seal is secure.  It cannot be broken by you, me, angels, demons, principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness in high places, etc., ... not even by God Himslef until the day of redemption.

our Salvation is sure and secure.