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What if you agree with most of the teachings from the pastor of your church but disagree on a few topics? Should one agree to disagree to keep unity? Should one eat the watermelon and spit out the seeds? Is it time to find a new church? Does anyone else have experiences of this nature? If so, how do you deal with it?

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I didn't end up going to the Tue. night Bible study at their house (I was sick) and I haven't been back to the church. I sent them a couple emails but they haven't responded so I am taking it in a way

To answer the OP, and not throw gas on the fire of doctrinal discussion...   I was raised in an IFB church by my IFB preacher Dad my whole life, saved at the age of 5 and surrendered to preach at 14

It really depends upon what we believe the pastor to be in the wrong about. Is he wrong about the color he wants the church to be painted or is he wrong about his presentation of the Gospel?   I've

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What if you agree with most of the teachings from the pastor of your church but disagree on a few topics? Should one agree to disagree to keep unity? Should one eat the watermelon and spit out the seeds? Is it time to find a new church? Does anyone else have experiences of this nature? If so, how do you deal with it?

Challenge the pastor.

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First of all study the issue that you have a prOBlem with.

Second go to him and him alone. Matthey 18:15

If he is a real pastor then he will have no prOBlem discussing with you the difference of opinion. Whatever the case, use scripture and only scripture as your guide.

Third do all of this with a restoring/growing attitude. Don't accuse the pastor (1 Timothy 5:19) of doing wrong, rather have him show you with scripture why he believes what he believes.

 

Most importantly be in much prayer daily and be very patient. Way too many "church" decisions are made on the spur of the moment giving heed to the devil and lying spirits oftentimes. Never make a spiritual decision in the flesh. That's to say don't let feelings rule over discernment.

 

Keep these things in mind and keep a pure heart and God will lead you in what to do. Always remember that the only one you both will ever have to answer to is God himself. Hebrews 13:17 and Romans 14:11-12

 

I'm going through some of the same stuff you are right now. Praying for you for sure!!

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I agree with John81 and Paid4 in this-the pastor should be approached, but respectfully, not just because he's "PASTOR", but because he is a fellos believer and sheep, and should be approached the same way we would approach anyone in such a matter.

 

I also agree that we should first study it out well, if it is a doctrinal issue, and be sure of our own spiritual footing, as well. Then, once prepared, make that appointment with the pastor, or really, whatever leader in the church it might be, and sit and talk it over with Bibles open, peacefully and prayerfully. He may have something very compelling that you have not considered, and you may just end up a changed man; or, you may have somethig HE hasn't considered, because none of us are perfect, and he may change. Or, as said above, you may come to completely different places at the end.

 

At this point, should you continue to disagree, its time to consider if its somethig worth separating over or not. All doctrine is important, but all is not worth separating over. Time to pray and make a decision: can it be accepted and we can get on for the good of everything else, or is it so serious its going to effect my usefulness and my spirit, and I need to go.

 

Or consider this, as well: Is it a minor issue, but I'm clearly taking it too hard and maybe I need to go so I don't hurt the church? One CAn be right about doctrine, but still get in the flesh over how its handled, including pastors. What will benefit the church-let all things be done for edifying the church.

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I am blessed with a very good (teaching style) pastor that provides exhaustive scripture proofs for any doctrinal issue he takes.  I do remember I had one initial disagreement with my Pastor when I first joined 13 years ago, and that was in the area of whether communion should be "open, closed, or close", and I went to him for an explanation on his stand.  The church I came from practiced "closed" communion meaning no one outside of our church membership was allowed to participate in communion.  My current Pastor (and I agree with his scriptural basis) practices "close" communion, meaning the person does not have to be a member of our church, but must have a testimony of salvation, and according to the scriptures, strong admonition and warning is given concerning taking the Lords supper "unworthily" and the dire consequences for those that do.  Ample time at the altar is given before communion for those to make sure there are no un-confessed or dealt with issues that would make you unworthy.

 

My pastor continually encourages anyone in the congregation to study out a doctrinal issue and if they can demonstrate with scripture a perceived error  to see him.

 

The topic of Open, Closed, and Close communion might make for an interesting thread topic since I have found that opinions on this can vary within IFB churches.  

 

Bro. Garry

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PRAY for your pastors every day. Hold them up before the Lord for protection and keeping them from compromise & error; for God to grant your pastor Holy Spirit guidance, health, safety, provision, messages & lesson preparation, and anything else you may believe they need. Then when something appears out of God's will, PRAY and STUDY God's word, ask God for discernment and wisdom. If God has not given you an answer seek out brothers or sisters and PRAY together and discuss the concern (NOT THE MAN); just speak to the issue of God's word which you may believe at odds with Christian practice. Paul exhorts us to "live peaceably" (Ro. 12:18) and this includes with your pastor. When this is exhausted and you have no peace yet then follow the guidance of scripture PRAY and schedule the meeting. Did I mention to PRAY and study God's word?

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Really only you can answer that. If it just bugs you that he doesn't agree with you on all points, then maybe you need to get past that and realize he is otherwise a good man. However if it is something doctrinal or a major standard that you feel affects you or your family in a way you are not comfortable, then of course talk to the pastor about it privately...if it cannot be resolved, quietly leave.

Whatever you do, don't sow discord/talk to others about it. I have seen firsthand God isn't pleased with this and it would not go well for you.

Best of luck with it.

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I thank everyone for the replies, shared stories and advice. To go a little deeper, the topic of concern for me is the security of the believer. I don't know if anyone that replied read an earlier post I made about how to find a church. Well, I found one. I really wasn't looking at this moment but had read an article online while I was doing my Bible study and at the end of the article it said to click here if you are looking for a church in your area. I clicked on it and the name and location of the church came up. I went on their page to read their statement of faith but there was little, or not enough info there for me to decide what they believed as a whole. I wanted to learn more, so I made a list of questions, made the call and spoke with the pastor. He was very gracious, patient and willing to take the time to discuss matters of importance to me and then basically thanked me for asking hard questions and doing my research of scripture. I was satisfied with the answers and scriptures he gave me and pretty much agreed with him. I started going to the church but then remembered something I forgot to ask and that was the security of the believer. I went to him alone and addressed him after the service and he told me he believes a Christian can fall from grace but it was something we would have to discuss in depth and too hard to give me a definitive answer in that moment. He said he would be happy to have himself and his wife go over it with me in greater detail if I wanted to get together with them. The reason this is so important to me is I have been in churches that teach you can lose salvation if you don't do this or that. I can't do that again. That is a miserable condition for a Christian to be in when you feel you have to constantly question your salvation.

I think I will prepare, pray and make the appointment, which leads me to my next question. As a woman, is this proper action to take if women are not to teach men or does that only refer to women who disrupt the church? I recall Acts 18:26 so I believe I am within my right, although my husband will not be with me at this appointment.

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P.S. I would like to reiterate my above statement. My goal is not to teach anyone but to discuss and determine in my own mind what I believe scripture has to say on this topic. Also, I do not wish, at anytime, for myself or my children to be taught otherwise if this topic comes up in some later sermon.

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I thank everyone for the replies, shared stories and advice. To go a little deeper, the topic of concern for me is the security of the believer. I don't know if anyone that replied read an earlier post I made about how to find a church. Well, I found one. I really wasn't looking at this moment but had read an article online while I was doing my Bible study and at the end of the article it said to click here if you are looking for a church in your area. I clicked on it and the name and location of the church came up. I went on their page to read their statement of faith but there was little, or not enough info there for me to decide what they believed as a whole. I wanted to learn more, so I made a list of questions, made the call and spoke with the pastor. He was very gracious, patient and willing to take the time to discuss matters of importance to me and then basically thanked me for asking hard questions and doing my research of scripture. I was satisfied with the answers and scriptures he gave me and pretty much agreed with him. I started going to the church but then remembered something I forgot to ask and that was the security of the believer. I went to him alone and addressed him after the service and he told me he believes a Christian can fall from grace but it was something we would have to discuss in depth and too hard to give me a definitive answer in that moment. He said he would be happy to have himself and his wife go over it with me in greater detail if I wanted to get together with them. The reason this is so important to me is I have been in churches that teach you can lose salvation if you don't do this or that. I can't do that again. That is a miserable condition for a Christian to be in when you feel you have to constantly question your salvation.

I think I will prepare, pray and make the appointment, which leads me to my next question. As a woman, is this proper action to take if women are not to teach men or does that only refer to women who disrupt the church? I recall Acts 18:26 so I believe I am within my right, although my husband will not be with me at this appointment.

I see red flags going up.  From my experience, people who do not believe in ''once saved-always saved'' do not change their beliefs on that unless God does a mighty work in their hearts. I know many folks like this and though they are sweet people, the doctrine they hold to is deadly. I wouldn't discuss it but would respectfully leave. When a person gets truly born again, they are a possessor of everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation, ever.....it's a done deal, end of story. and when Jesus says ''depart from me'' He will not say to the lost; '' I knew you once but don't anymore',

 

John 5:24 says....

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

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I'm in a similar situation now. My present pastor does not use the King James and I feel much the same way. Even though it's much consolation thar my pastor believes in eternal security and isn't a Calvinist, the Southern Baptist dress codes, music, and the use of the per-versions has been getting to me for a long time.

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Can I ask a question to those on here that may read this that hold or have held a pastoral position? How do you feel about members leaving your church and then coming back? How do you go back to a church you've left? Just start showing up again with no explanation of the absence? I feel all this bouncing around from church to church is not a good example to my children, even though I am sincerely trying to settle somewhere. I am considering going back where I used to attend because all this searching is making me think perhaps I should have stayed where I was.

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I have to agree with Uke, GS. I wouldn't meet with him about it (not because you're a woman, but because you know what scripture teaches and he will simply try to sway your beliefs to fit his).  Just quietly leave. 

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It could be be a misunderstanding of terms - I have met some who use term "fall from grace" to refer to our fellowship with Christ, not our relationship with Christ. Personally I think this is a wrong use of terms, and potentially confusing.

I have no prOBlem with the thought of meeting to clarify such issues.
I would suggest that both you and your husband go though.

As far as leaving and returning, without knowing the situation, I would suggest that you speak to the pastor about your reasons. That assumes he is approachable of course.
By doing so, you might expose to him an area that he can work on and thereby that ministry can become more honouring to the Lord.

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Well, I took the majority of the advice and decided to make an appt. which is on Tue. at my home with the pastor and his wife. I don't want to make any hasty decisions about possibly having to leave without making clarifications. I'm very nervous. I've never met with a pastor before to go over doctrine. Only for weddings and funerals. :) I'll let you all know the outcome. And thanks again for encouragement and advice.

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One more thing. My preparation will consist of all the scripture relating to security and my understanding of those scriptures. I will also list scriptures I am aware of that those who hold to the belief of loss of salvation use so I can be prepared with an answer. If anyone can advise further on how to prepare, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to pray, pray, pray. That is no. 1

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The main Biblical arguments against eternal security are found in Hebrews. A systematic outline study of Hebrews can be found in this link:

'?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>  It should be helpful as I have tried to put the teaching in its historical context.

 

A dangerous argument for eternal security was put forward by the late Adrian Rogers e.g. in his sermon "Lot - A disgrace to grace" in which he argued that if you have gone through the "salvation prayer" on the lines of: "Lord Jesus, I admit I am a sinner, & I believe you died for my sins, so I can be forgiven" then you are truly saved. You can live a filthy rotten life (like Lot), but you can't lose your salvation.  

 

I reported that sermon to the radio presenters, we looked it up on line so we could be sure we weren't  misrepresenting him, and the presenters agreed that the teaching was false. If we is truly saved, we will live a godly life & bear the fruit of the Spirit. ( Gal. 5:16-25 ) It is NOT denying eternal security to say that a practising sinner is unsaved, even if they have once professed conversion. True salvation continues in faith. We cannot reassure such a person. They MUST repent. Rev. 3:19

 

But, believers are not immediately perfect. We do sin, and grieve because we sin. Our walk in the Spirit is stumbling & erratic, but we dare not turn away from our Saviour God. 

 

Another argument,also using the salvation prayer, &/or the evangelism that calls for decisions for Christ, is that many of those "saved" do fall away. They were accepted as saved, even joining a church & showing a reformed character for a time, before going back into the world. The parable of the sower tells us to expect this, and to look for enduring fruit. (Mat. 13)  

 

So, am I saying we can be saved & lost again? Certainly NOT. We are born again, children of God. Will God disown his so-loved children? Will he abandon his sheep, the sheep he loved & gave his life for, to the wolves? He whose divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, will not abandon those he has saved. b

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I will share with you what he is going to bring to the table as far as losing your salvation.

 

1. 2 Peter 2:20-21 is used by them. It's taken out of context read the whole chapter, verses 10-19 describes who Peter is talking about.These people changed themselves and were not saved. The key here is a difference of know and believe. James 2:19 shows that knowledge of God doesn't equal salvation. Also the reference to the dog and sow shows that there was no new creation as described in 2 Corinthains 5:17.

 

2. Hebrews 6:4-6 This will prOBably be what he leads out with. This is their key verse of scripture for explaining this. Again read the whole chapter. Notice in verse 9 the transition wrod BUT. This shows a change from one point or topic to another. After the BUT comes beloved. This shows that the writer was talking about someone else. Now using the same book, lets look at Hebrews 4:1-3. Here the writer describes the people that he is talking about in chapter 6. "but the word preached did not profit them" shows that they were NEVER saved to begin with.

 

3. Revelation 22:19  Here is the final and most misunderstood portion of scripture that will be used. This one will take quite a bit of faith and conviction to explain. They use the key part of this verse "God shall take away his part out of the book of life". The main issue with this is that there are more books than just this one. I don't have time or space to explain it here but the principle of what i believe is a dividing difference between the LAMB's book of life and all other books. It's been explained to me that when you are born your name is written in the book of life and when you're born AGAIN it's written in the LAMB's book of life. See Revelation 3:5, Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8, Revelation 20:12-15 are just a few of the verses you can study and make your own judgements on concerning this matter.

 

For sake of time and space here are just a few verses on eternal security to help prove your point.

 

Romans 8:38-39

John 17:9-10

John 10:28-29

John 6:51-58

Hebrews 10:12-14

1 Peter 1:23

1 John 2:17

2 John 1:2

 

Also do a word search of everlasting and eternal.

 

Hope these help.

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Covenantor, Would you mind posting a link to that "Lot, a disgrace to grace" sermon? All I found was "Don't be a Disgrace to Grace" in which the WHOLE MESSAGE is exhorting born again Christians to live right and separate from the world and worldly lusts. The message also speaks of different Jesus's which the world loves, and the righteous Jesus which the world hates. Adrian Rogers preached the Jesus who loved all mankind, gave himself for everyone. He was a Godly, sound Bible preacher and YOU don't like him because he plowed down the row of the Calvinist/reformed. Truly born again saved persons, indwelled with the Holy Ghost, CAN fall into sin so bad that God will KILL them...he chastens his own. Furthermore, YOU are presently in sin yourself not only because you teach false doctrine, but because you are falsely accusing a man of God.

Please post it, thanks.

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One more thing. My preparation will consist of all the scripture relating to security and my understanding of those scriptures. I will also list scriptures I am aware of that those who hold to the belief of loss of salvation use so I can be prepared with an answer. If anyone can advise further on how to prepare, I would greatly appreciate it. I know I need to pray, pray, pray. That is no. 1

I posted Bible references in my previous post but let me say this. God made the hard things simple. We have the Holy Spirit and common sense. Most times you can refute some things by asking the right questions. Jesus did this often and it is the most effective way to change someone's way of thinking.

 

For example in the topic at hand I would ask "When you die, are you still the son/daughter of your parents?"  So then "If you're born again, are you a child of God?"   If that is true,"What can change that fact"?   How about this...."Do adopted children have one set of parents or two"?

 

I hope you can use these to edify other believers.

 

Most of all christians, really sit down and meditate on Gods word and let the Holy Spirit gide you and show you some things that make perfect sense.

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Paid4:  Thank you so much for taking the time and giving me scriptures.  Some of them I have and some I did not.  

 

Can I clarify my understanding of Heb 6:4?  I want to know if I am understanding correctly because this is one of the main passages used in their defense.  They interpret this passage to say once a person is saved, if they fall away, they cannot be saved anymore.  That's it. They had their chance, they fell away.  Too bad.  You crucified Christ again.  Shame on you.

 

First, I want to start in Heb 5:12 and going forward.  I'm going to paraphrase so you can understand if my reasoning, interpretation and logic are in tact.  For when the time they ought to be teachers, they were still needing to be taught the "first principles" and still needed milk and not strong meat.  They were still babes and still "believers" but not progressing in their knowledge. 

 

Now going on to Heb 6 (paraphrasing) leave the principles of milk and go on to meat.  v. 4 they were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God and powers of the world to come.  What stands out the most to me is they were partakers of the HG.  Only saved people can be partakers, therefore I conclude Paul is addressing believers.

 

v 6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance"  --- to me this is saying once a person is saved, they don't have to keeping going back to God for salvation if they fall away.  By doing that, it is putting Christ on the cross over and over again putting him to an open shame.  In essence, they are saying Christ's once and for all sacrificial death was not sufficient to cover them anymore because they fell away.  Please save me again.

 

I think Paul is saying look...you are already saved.  Let's move on from those basic principles of salvation (milk) and go on to meat.  Stop trying to get saved again when you already have salvation.

 

v 7 tells us why they need to move on.  Paul uses the analogy of a land that had many showers upon it and good crops come up, and the land experienced God's blessings upon it, but it keeps producing thorns and thistles, the land is of no use.  This not about loss of salvation but of their lack of growth.

 

v 9 But, beloved (still addressing the believer) we want more from you. Things that accompany salvation...not salvation alone.  Then Paul goes on through the chapter and tells them show diligence.  Diligence of what?  The full assurance of hope.

 

So this whole chapter is the assurance of salvation, not the possible loss of it.  If you keep going through the chapter, Paul continues to assure by bringing to their recollection the promise God made to Abraham and that it was an oath, and it is impossible for God to lie.  We have strong consolation, hope and a refuge in that, etc.  You are saved.  Now let's move on.

 

Thank you for letting me test my understanding on you and for being a guinea pig.  :-)       

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I don't think I would attend a church that believes you can lose your salvation, I believe this dangerously leads to works salvation.

 

People like this also never tell you how much sin it takes to lose your salvation.

 

There's just so much danger, as if trusting Christ is not enough and that we must add self effort to keep ourselves.

 

What a wicked doctrine from Hell!

 

To me it's clearly no different in principle from what Paul defends from in Galatians, adding the Law to Grace by Faith.

 

If you read Galatians through it clearly demonstrates the principle of Salvation and even Christian living being all by faith and dependence on Christ and not self!

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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I think thew biggest danger of the idea that you can lose your salvation is shown in the fact that everyone I have talked to who believes it ( not being God this is just my opinion) commits some sin or other at some time or other after their "conversion".  (Now I am just taking their word that they were "converted".)  Now since they have admittedly sinned since their "conversion" it seems to be by their own words (that if you sin you can lose your salvation), they must have lost their salvation.  But I have never talked to one who believes they have lost their salvation.  (I guess that just means other sinners and not them personally.)

 

Arminians seem to believe the loss of salvations only applies to others and not themselves.  Odd thinking.  Just as strange as an extreme Calvinists who believes only he has been chosen.

 

We all must ask ourselves, "Have I sinned since I claimed Christ as savior?"  

1 John 1:8-10
 
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
 
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
KJV
 

 

God bless,

Larry

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Covenanter:  Are you saying that Lot was not saved?  If so, and I apologize if I misinterpreted your post, but I would have to disagree based on 2 Peter 2.

 

The whole chapter is about false prophets and teachers (having a form of Godliness) living among the truly Godly and their destruction thereof.

 

v 7 And delivered "just" Lot...

 

v 8 "For that "righteous" man (Lot) dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed (disturbed/troubled) his "righteous" soul from day to day with their (not his) unlawful deeds."

 

v 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly (Lot) out of temptations...

 

God destroyed the people who vexed him as an example to those false teachers who should come after and live ungodly even though they profess Godliness.

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Now going on to Heb 6 (paraphrasing) leave the principles of milk and go on to meat.  v. 4 they were enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, partakers of the Holy Ghost, tasted the good word of God and powers of the world to come.  What stands out the most to me is they were partakers of the HG.  Only saved people can be partakers, therefore I conclude Paul is addressing believers.

 

 

v 6 "If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance"  --- to me this is saying once a person is saved, they don't have to keeping going back to God for salvation if they fall away.  

 

 

 

 

 

For them to be enlightened simply means that the gospel has been shared with them. They have tasted and not swallowed or taken in that heavenly gift. Jesus Christ is on their lips but their hearts are far from Him. (Matthey 7:20-23) Being partakers of the Holy Ghost means that they were sharing the work of others (Acts 19:13-15)

 

As far as the renew them again goes, you have to put it into the context of the steps of salvation. Repentance comes to some people but they never accept Jesus. You can hear these people talk about things like; turn the other cheek, new lease on life, turning over a new leaf, starting a new chapter in my life, and things like that. These people may feel different or good for a while but their salvation was hollow and never dependent upon Jesus Christ. Now you can see how that the next time they hear the gospel it's describe as being impossible to get them to repent because to them it didn't work the first time so why try it again. It's all a lack of faith.

 

In all reality we see this a lot in our churches today. People who hear the gospel and have an experience but nothing ever changes because there was no faith or salvation. Sad really.

 

Think on these things and read John 4:10-14 that's the difference between tasting and drinking.

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