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I don't know about IFB in Australia, but here in America most preach the tithe, and a good many of them preach on the subject often, and a good many of those use the appeal to greed and fear in order to "convince" their congregation to tithe.

 

I've heard very few IFB pastors in America preach NT giving.

 

My experience of Americans who visit here must be a great aberration then, for I know of no american missionary over here who does, nor has any american preacher who I have personally met preached or spoken with me about tithing as a necessity.

 

Nor for that matter have I got any books from IFB in my library that I can remember seeing tithing as a "tax" to be extracted by compulsion.

 

As I have said, I have seen the tithe taught as an example only - and I know that even this offends some, but it is always overlaid with "as the Lord leads", not out of necessity.

 

I personally don't use the word "tithe" unless I am preaching specifically about it, and the last time I did so - a few years ago now, and the conclusion I presented was that the tithe is nowhere pressed upon us in the NT.

 

Miss Daisy - that is just wrong - and I certainly never said it doesn't happen - I do know of others like you who tell such stories, and I do not doubt them - but I have never personally sat under that preaching.

 

Maybe I just associate with more biblical preachers.......

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I know my pastor preaches to tithe, then we have a whole month of "missionary month" in OctOBer, which is just a whole month of trying to get blood out of turnips in my church. We have an average Sunday adult attendance in church of average of 12 regulars, 20 on a good Sunday. Not all tithe or "give willingly". I hear how God will get it out of you someway, your car will break down and be the price of what you would normally give. Then every year, want you to increase your giving to the church, to the missionaries, to the school, or whatever pet project is going on at the moment.

Do you see the foolishness of the argument that "God will get it out of you anyway"?  I mean, think about it.  A pastor says we are not to spend our tithe money on worldly or secular stuff. then argues that God will cause us to give that money to worldly organizations just to get it out of us? 

Oh, the irony.  LOL

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Since there is only one IFB Church in my town, and it teaches that God requires Church members to tithe their money, then I would say 100% of the IFB Churches in my town teach that false doctrine.

Likewise, when I lived in Randleman, NC, there was only one IFB Church in the whole town.  It also taught that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches in Randleman teach that false doctrine.

Matter of fact, in every IFB Church I have ever visited teach that God requires Church members to tithe their money.  So, again.  100% of the IFB Churches I have visited teach that false doctrine.

 

 

I don't dispute that, but just as my experience is different and you would be offended if I did claim that none preached it, I would ask that Mike refrain from making such claims - they are just not true.

 

I mistook you as making that claim previously - your claim was more general - but mike was very specific - and wrong.

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The thing is, we get most of our information from not just personal experience, but also from Barna polls. 

For instance, in 2011, George Barna polled 2,000 people concerning tithes.  Of those 2,000 people, only 60 said they tithed.  Just 3%.

How far off would I be to say that only 3% of all people in America tithe?  I am not sure that I would be too far off, if off at all.

For the record, the numbers were higher in 2008, so maybe less than 3% now.  Would be interesting to find out.

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While I've certain not visited every IFB church in America, from those I have and from hearing from others, unless there is some major difference somewhere in the country, I would guess Mike isn't that far from accuracy as I would expect 90+% of IFB pastors do preach the tithe.

 

I don't recall hearing missionaries preach about tithing, but then why would they, they are generally looking for a big one time offering or a specific long-term commitment from the church. While I've not heard missionaries speak of giving a tithe, I've heard pastors bring it up after the missionaries have spoken and reminded the congregation they are OBligated to give their tithe to the church and any gift to the missionaries should be an extra gift.

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I know my pastor preaches to tithe, then we have a whole month of "missionary month" in OctOBer, which is just a whole month of trying to get blood out of turnips in my church. We have an average Sunday adult attendance in church of average of 12 regulars, 20 on a good Sunday. Not all tithe or "give willingly". I hear how God will get it out of you someway, your car will break down and be the price of what you would normally give. Then every year, want you to increase your giving to the church, to the missionaries, to the school, or whatever pet project is going on at the moment.

 

Miss Daisy that is common in my area.

 

My pastor talks a lot about giving time. Praying, Reading the Scriptures, Visiting the Sick, etc. He said if churches ever found out how much preachers love to preach, they make them pay for the privilege. 

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Anecdotal evidence is weak, but my testimony adds to the 100% teach "tithing"(which isn't actually a word, though much misuse has placed it in the dictionaries of late).

Of the churches that I have visited, or joined, in the last 40 years, not one has taught NT giving properly.
All that have taught on tithe, have greived the Spirit of God, and reinstated the curse of the Law.
Included in this list are three of the largest, most influential IFB churches in my lifetime.

To be fair, Jack Hyles mentioned that John R.Rice didn't agree with him on tithes, but I never heard Rice out, on the subject, so I can't include testimony of him and/or any of his like-minded churches.
I'm sure, with the circulation of the SOTL in the 70's and 80's, that there were some who agreed with its editor.

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Thanks for linking that article.
Now I can't say that I haven't heard Rice out.

So he definitely had a rift with Hyles over that heresy.

I don't know the date on this article, but Rice saw the IFB beginning to fall into Nicolaitan deeds , and tithing as the catalyst.

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I would ask you to present some proof that "95% teach tithing".

 

This is not my experience at all.

 

I have NEVER personally heard the tithe taught as a necessity in any IFB church I have ever been to.

 

I certainly am not saying it does not happen, but when people use terms like "95%" or even "most", I find it hard to believe.

 

I have heard people use it as "an example to follow, but only as the Lord leads", never as a necessity - the heart of giving is always emphasised.

 

So - prove it, or stop it.

 

Proof of "most" or "95%" or else stop saying it.

 

How about saying "Whenever people preach tithing as a necessity it is wrong"?

 

That I have no prOBlem with.

At all.

 

In any way......

 

But stop making accusations that are simply not true.

 

It is not 95%, nor in my experience is it "most".

 

MY personal experience is that it is actually NO IFB church preaches it, but I have heard reports of some who do, so I would never say that no IFB church preaches - that would by just as wrong as saying "95%" or "Most".

 

"Some do" would be an acceptable statement - but not "95%".

Of course, I can only speak to my experience, but in the roughly 30 years I have been an IFB, going only to IFB churches from the west coast to the east coast, as well as every one I have visited, 100% of them have taught the tithe, as well as NT free-will giving on top of that. Basically, a 10% tithe is required, such that God will TAKE it if you don't give it. I said 95% yes, just off the top of my head, but the first church I have ever been in, mine is the first NOT to teach it.

 

So, yes, I admit, the 95% is not based up-on researched information, and I apologize for my assumption and incorrect information, but as I said, we can but speak to our experience, and I have just a little.

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Our pastor mentioned Sunday that unless the text he's preaching from has to do with money/giving, he doesn't bring it up because he believes if our hearts are right with God we will be giving without having to be told, and we especially don't need to be told how much to give.

 

If a special project or need comes up he will mention it from the pulpit, usually just once and simply tell folks if they want to give to the purchase of a new heating system (for example) they may do so.

 

By the grace of God our church is well funded, we have no debt.

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I have never heard a message on giving/tithing either from my pastor in the 14 years I have been attending there.  Like John mentioned, "he believes if our hearts are right with God we will be giving without having to be told".  He did mention recently though that our giving has been very good but our "missions" giving has been lower than normal.  Our pastor runs a very tight ship when it comes to church funds and will not take from one bucket that is well funded to add to a bucket that is low, (ie. building fund, bus ministry funds, general offering (tithe), and missions are kept rigidly separate),and 100% of a love offering for a special speaker goes directly to that speaker (I hear that is rare). By the grace of God our church is also well funded and we have no debt.  Though we have severely outgrown our current building (we have to bus our kids off site to an elementary school for youth services), and own outright 5 acres for a new building, our pastor will not put the church in deep debt for a loan but instead insists that over 70% of any building be paid in cash.

 

Bro. Garry

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Our pastor also keeps all funding separate and there is no taking from Peter to fund Paul. We've also outgrown our building and are very much in need of an addition. We've been putting aside money for such for a long time. In the spring we were presented with an offer much lower than previously for an addition. If we can work out the details, it looks as if we could build the addition with the money we have, but then it would require additional money and volunteer help to do the finishing work for the interior.

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Okay, folks, read this carefully: this is not a tithing thread.  Repeat: this is not a tithing thread.  Just because it was mentioned in a post does not mean that we need to derail the thread into such.  Put a stop to it - without smart alecky comments about whether or not "tithe" was collected in my church Sunday.

 

There is a tithe thread already going.  Post in that rather than here.  

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We just had one account, and everything went in there. After we went so low we ran out, the bank eventually shut down our account altogether. We made a second personal account and use it for the church fund, but its rarely got much in it.

 

That's just how we roll.

 

We roll very slow.

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Okay, folks, read this carefully: this is not a tithing thread.  Repeat: this is not a tithing thread.  Just because it was mentioned in a post does not mean that we need to derail the thread into such.  Put a stop to it - without smart alecky comments about whether or not "tithe" was collected in my church Sunday.

 

There is a tithe thread already going.  Post in that rather than here.  

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What if you agree with most of the teachings from the pastor of your church but disagree on a few topics? Should one agree to disagree to keep unity? Should one eat the watermelon and spit out the seeds? Is it time to find a new church? Does anyone else have experiences of this nature? If so, how do you deal with it?

It is very common to disagree with the pastor and/or anyone else in the church. After all, you are your own person and not a blind follower. Anything that you disagreement you have with the pastor with should be discussed with him with an open mind. I have found that in my discussions with my pastor that I was the one that was wrong sometimes, my pride got in the way sometimes. Other times it was the other way around. If they are areas that you feel that you can't live with and they are becoming a stumbling block, then leave the church after discussing it with the Pastor. Keep in mind that just as you feel that you may be 100% correct in this issue, so does he. Who is right? We will find out when we get to heaven, until then try not to be arrogant about the situation and do what is best for your family. 

 

FYI: I'm not basing my comments on basic Baptist doctrine but other small things that Baptists commonly disagree on.

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Okay, you're right-back to agreement'disagreement with that pastor.

 

I admit I don't always agree with my pastor. The sad thing is, I'M the pastor! Which means sometimes I find myself to be incorrect on something and I need to go back and make things right.

 

Last Sunday I taught on the subject of holiness, as in "Be ye holy, for I am holy", and discussed what it was to be holy, ie, set apart, sanctified and separated unto the work of God.

 

I spoke about it to the tabernacle and the temple, the holy place and the holiest, or holy of holies, the two places particularly set apart for the service and worship of God.  And I spoke briefly about the church building, which, in itself, is just a building, but it is something that, being set apart for service for the Lord, does, indeed, become, by that standard, a holy place. This is why I teach that a church building should not be used for other purposes, like AA meetings or community meetings or the like-it is set apart, separated, holy unto the work of God, and should be treated as such.

 

Later as I thought back on the lesson, it occured to me that I did not give such teachings about the building when we had it, and, living in it for a while as I did, it just became like my house, and not as a place holy and separated unto God. And because I never taught about it as such, I wonder if those who are there did not think of it as important, either and thus, it was taken from us-because no one really cared about it from the perspective of being holy to the Lord's work.

 

Don't misunderstand me-I didn't destroy it or treat it terribly, but not being the greatest housekeeper, living in it did make a mess in some of the back areas, at times, and since we lived toward the back part of the church, aspects of it could not be used for their assigned purposes.

 

So now, I find it was prOBably much my own fault we are where we are, and as such, I find myself at odds with my pastor's past practices and as such, I have confronted him and found him willing to turn and repent and do right. He's a pretty cool guy-lol.

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