What do you think...

[John81]

Where's Sunday School in the Bible at all? When I look at the structure of the NT church' date=' I see something much much simpler than what we have today. It was families fellowshipping with families, often in one another's houses. They didn't have programs and special classes. Why? Because that was the responsibility of the family. The [i']parents are told to train up a child in the way he should go, where did the church receive such a mandate? In a SS classroom, the parents have no control over what is being taught their children or how it is being taught. The church was never given the responsibility of raising children.

I do believe I agree with the premise of your stance but I also see where some of the others here are coming from as well.

While I absolutely believe families should worship and learn together as much as possible, what about those who don't attend church as a family?

Considering the situation today where some children are bussed to church without their family, some children are dumped at church by their parents, and we have single parents and such; how do we deal with these?

[kevinmiller]

I do believe I agree with the premise of your stance but I also see where some of the others here are coming from as well.

While I absolutely believe families should worship and learn together as much as possible, what about those who don't attend church as a family?

Considering the situation today where some children are bussed to church without their family, some children are dumped at church by their parents, and we have single parents and such; how do we deal with these?

This book that I'm reading on the church actually addresses that. In a church that focuses on the family and on building heart-level relationships, a person who was not a part of a family such as a single person or a single child would be "adopted," in a way, by a family in the church that could include them in their family fellowship and discipleship. When the church focus is on relationships, discipling a person where they are isn't a problem.

[HappyChristian]

Where's Sunday School in the Bible at all? When I look at the structure of the NT church' date=' I see something much much simpler than what we have today. It was families fellowshipping with families, often in one another's houses. They didn't have programs and special classes. Why? Because that was the responsibility of the family. The [i']parents are told to train up a child in the way he should go, where did the church receive such a mandate? In a SS classroom, the parents have no control over what is being taught their children or how it is being taught. The church was never given the responsibility of raising children.

Actually, Kevin, it's not true that a parent has no control over what is being taught. All it takes is time on the part of the parent to discuss with the child what he/she is learning, and if there is a problem go to the teacher. When our son was small, we knew what he was being taught...in any class he was in- and there was a time or two we pulled him out until what was being taught was through. Even when he was teenaged, we knew what was being taught. And we approved. And we appreciated the help. And we had every biblical right to appropriate that help.

Sunday School might not be mandated in the Bible, but it isn't forbidden, either. And parents have the liberty to choose to attend a church where there are age graded classes for their children if they so desire. If the parents wish to utilize the church in learning situations as an addendum to their training, that is their Biblical right to do so. Just because Sunday School (or other programs a church has) wasn't in the Bible doesn't mean it has to be thrown out.

I for one am glad I had the opportunity to go to Sunday School. My parents didn't know a lot of the Bible, even after they began attending church. I learned a lot in my classes. I'm glad my son had the opportunity to attend Sunday School - he learned a lot. And we knew his teachers. His kindergarten teacher was our pastor's wife. We were thrilled to have her teaching him. We were very happy with the things he learned and the schedule on which he learned them throughout his Sunday School time. Sunday School is a good thing when it is done right, and so is Jr. church.

Sunday night service isn't mandated in the Bible either. Neither is mid-week service. But that doesn't mean it's wrong to have them.

[John81]

This book that I'm reading on the church actually addresses that. In a church that focuses on the family and on building heart-level relationships, a person who was not a part of a family such as a single person or a single child would be "adopted," in a way, by a family in the church that could include them in their family fellowship and discipleship. When the church focus is on relationships, discipling a person where they are isn't a problem.

What book are you reading (if you mentioned it previously I don't recall), it sounds interesting.

[Anon]

Where's Sunday School in the Bible at all? When I look at the structure of the NT church' date=' I see something much much simpler than what we have today. It was families fellowshipping with families, often in one another's houses. They didn't have programs and special classes. Why? Because that was the responsibility of the family. The [i']parents are told to train up a child in the way he should go, where did the church receive such a mandate? In a SS classroom, the parents have no control over what is being taught their children or how it is being taught. The church was never given the responsibility of raising children.

In the Bible, the parents, grandparents, and priests taught the children. Today we are often far removed from extended family. It is not unbiblical to get a little help from pastors or teachers in teaching our children. Obviously we are with our children the most but it is not sin to send them to a little Sunday School class.

I think sometimes people are trying to find something wrong with our churches today. That's great, go to somebody's house, whatever you want...but Sunday School is not "wrong" and you can't find a verse that says it is.

[kevinmiller]

What book are you reading (if you mentioned it previously I don't recall), it sounds interesting.

It's called Uniting Church and Home by Eric Wallace. It's an excellent book.
I haven't heard it yet, but I'd like to get the cd from VF, the History of the Sunday School Movement.
http://www.visionforum.com/hottopics/bl ... /1818.aspx

[matie-k]

I don't know that these problems can be solved because our society is so far from what it used to be. But I'd like to be a part of a group that is making it work more like Kevin is putting forth.

[JerryNumbers]

Only for Sunday school and night Bible study classes.

But never during the time of the sermon during morning and evening service.

I did not vote, I did not really see one I could approve of.

[rancher824]

Only for Sunday school and night Bible study classes.

But never during the time of the sermon during morning and evening service.

I did not vote, I did not really see one I could approve of.

The sermon should be for the family. You can say all you want that kids do not get anything out of a sermon, but I do not believe it. If nothing else, they learn from example how to behave. I have seen a two year old that seemed to be hearing nothing of the sermon, repeat parts of it. I believe they should be in the auditoriom with the adults. I am afraid we are to worried about ourselves learning (though many times those who worry the most don't seem to learn much) to want to be sure the next generation learns the deep things of God.

[Jerry]

The sermon should be for the family.

What if every service has a sermon? Even when my pastor teaches, it is still preaching - though a little more structured (to us, in the sense that we are given an outline, and he typically goes systematically through a passage or a theme).

My pastor likes to say, "Teaching is low key preaching." At least, in his case it is.

[Anon]

We can debate this until we are blue in the face, but truth is, nobody has Bible to back it up...because its all preference!

[kevinmiller]

We can debate this until we are blue in the face' date=' but truth is, nobody has Bible to back it up...because its all preference![/quote']
I don't agree. I think it is exactly why our churches are so weak today. The focus is on programs and not relationships and Christians are remaining stagnant because they aren't being discipled by older and wiser Christians on a relationship-level. People can't be "re-educated" into Christianity, they must be led into Christianity through heart-level relationships, that is where true discipleship occurs, not in the classroom.

[Anon]

You are assuming churches cannot have "programs" and "relationships" at the same time.

In our church, I believe the extra "programs" we have started have also helped fuel relationships. Just in six months we have seen some families start growing, and believe it or not, growing TOGETHER. Just because you can't see it in your particular church doesn't mean its not happening.

[JerryNumbers]

Ugh, We don't have programs.

But, regular church services is not for entertainment and programs. Any entertainment and programs should be special events held outside of regular scheduled services.

Special events, singing and or programs, held outside of regular scheduled services is a great time for fellowship and brings all members closer together. It is also a good time for visitors, if they will attend such an event, they just might attend regular services. Of course at such events there should be a short devotional, not a sermon.

Regularly scheduled Church service is not for fun and game. Although with the young children one does have a bit of leeway, if you will teach them in an entertaining manner they will learn more and will be ready to attend nest time week, but that does not mean you turn their classes into fun and game.

[LAF]

I know families who stayed out all day and into the night bus calling ,then they were up early the next day and on the bus .Then it was on to teach SS then onto Junior church ,back to the bus ,they hardly saw each other or the kids .
All in the name of working in the church ,yes the may of helped some kids ,but in the end they lost their own .
Thats a sad but true fact .