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Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Everything posted by rancher824

  1. Very good points. In my case, the scriptures say to honor father and mother. Any of us that are blessed to have been born into a God fearing/loving family will have our roots in what our parents teach us. The same is true that those who find Christ later in their lives will most surely have someone they love and respect that will build that base. So long as we are trying the spirits on our own we can come to the same conclusion without just being a photo copy. And that is where we need to be. Ever listening to those who came before us. But, as those at Berea, we should be checking what they say against scripture to be sure it is truth. Always amazes me how that the things they were checking came from the apostle Paul. He being the instrument God used to give us so much of the New Testament. And they were greatly commended for questioning him. We should always push brethren to check what we are saying and rejoice when the come to correct us in love, even if we have to then guide them to the truth they are missing. Not get offended by them. And we should always have an open mind that even though the Bible is never wrong, I can be wrong in my understanding.
  2. I was here years ago, but a busy life has kept me away. Decided to drop by and say hello. I searched and see several of the ones that were here have not been on for several years either. I doubt I will post much, as life is very busy, but I enjoy reading the posts. So to reintroduce myself. I was raised in a pastors home. Have live within an hour of the same place most of my life. When I was here before I wasn’t yet a father/ announced that we were expecting and received prayers when the pregnancy was going rough. And those prayers were graciously answered. Now I need more prayers as I am the father of a teenager and an 11 year old. It is crazy how fast life has been flying by.
  3. I’ve not been here in several years, and won’t be around a lot because of a busy life. But I saw this thread and thought it interesting. Years ago I was in a several month long disagreement with my then fiancé, now wife’s pastor over something to do with our up coming marriage. It was a huge ordeal for both of us that ended in my pastor/father officiating over it instead of him. Anyway, as we drew near to the end of the debating, one day he said that to me. “You only believe that because your father does!” The funny thing to me looking back, within 5 minutes he turns to another man, several years younger than me and asks him what true baptists believe. Now first off, though there are more independent Baptist that agree with him than I would like, the vast majority agree with me. Secondly, and most comical part, the man he called over was his son. He proved I only believed what my father told me to by using his son to prove me wrong.
  4. But Jesus did say Except for fornication. Now the only one who has tried to really explain this admitted that fornication is a broad word that intails all forms of sexual sin, but is only willing to accept certain ones in this case. Is this not saying I will agree with Jesus as long as he agrees with me? It is very easy to say that a spouse can just seperate, but in reality things can get much more complex. Let's consider if I was a cheating husband. If I cheat on my wife as a daily thing. Now she decides to "seperate" from me for her safety. I could not stop her. Sounds simple enough doesn't it. Oh but wait, there are those two little ones that the Lord has given us. Does she take them from me and explain that she has that right to seperate me from MY children? I would fight for my children. Can you give me verses that stand behind "seperating" for a long period of time? The verses in 1 cor 7 say that if the unbeiliving are happy to stay, the believing are to "not leave them". Would seperating not be "leaving"?
  5. We will be praying for you and your family. What a reunion you have to look forward to!!
  6. What dead are raised in verse 16? The verse answers this, The dead IN CHRIST. Not all the dead but the dead in Christ. The saved. Then verse seventeen says we which are alive. Does this refer to all living? No, as it says we will be ever with the Lord. The lost are not included in this verse. It specifies that very clear.
  7. Cultural?? Okay, lets look at David. Israel was simular to America in that they had little laws that the King could make, yet a supreme law that he could not. America also has a supreme law (the constitution), but ours can be altered if the votes are there. Israels supreme law could not be altered, as it was (and is) the very law of God. Every culture obeys their laws, or else they would not be the laws. Now let's look at David and Bathsheba. David looks out and lusts after her. He then enquires and finds out she is another mans wife. He then sends for her and takes her as if his wife. He then has Uriah killed. Now I admit a king can send men to their death in battle without violating the commandment, but when a king singles out a man to send so he can take what is his, that is a differant story. Now you can say it was culturaly correct for him to have done these things even though they broke the supreme law, yet it is culturaly acceptable for the govt to stomp on the constitution as the have done for many years. Yet that is one of the things used to say one is evil is he will not bring us back to the constitution.
  8. But John, as I have tried to point out, even Abraham, David, and Solomon would fall short of us saying they were men of charactor. Every one of the three would fall when the question of one woman man came up!!!!!
  9. I would like to add that I have not seen anyone here saying that politicians are THE answer to Americas problems. I think we would all agree the only true answer is God. But there is no sin in trying to guide our country toward freedom through voting so that we can continue to preach openly. Yes I know that many revivals have came through persecution, but I would rather pray that we would open our eyes enough that the churches would start preaching strong and loud through freedom, than to see my children taken from me and murdered because I was caught teaching them about Christ.
  10. No Jerry, I am taking "your argument" to the logical conclusion. Stating things are sinful because Jesus did not do them is a very dangerous statement. As I have said, Jesus points out he had no home. By your argument that would mean we should have no homes. Jesus did not own a piece of this wicked world. I mean how can you be more entangled with something than owning a piece of it?? But there is no sin in owning a home. Jesus mission just had no need of it. He came as a servant, not a master. Your statement says it is a sin to be into politics (yes I am ready for you to tell me not to make it you saying something you did not, but that is what you said). But it is not a sin to be in politics any more than being a carpenter, truck driver, or any other occupation. Let me explain. As a carpenter, my dad was once asked about helping (this was the contractor he worked for talking) on remodeling a bar if the contractor got the job. My dad said he would not help with it. If he had, he would have been putting his job before God. The contractor did not even try to get the job, and all was well. Now most carpenters would have had no problem with the thought of working on a bar. Does that make it sinful to be in carpentry? No!! Or with truck drivers, most would not mind hauling liquer. Many if not most do not mind fixing the books so to get more miles. Does that make it sinful to drive a truck? No!! Not if a man is not willing to comprimise his faith in God. Daniel was in politics. He obeyed all the laws of his govt that he realy did not want to be a part of until one came that would comprimise his faith. He then stood to the point of death. There can still be Godly men in politics today. And again I ask you where do these verses say anything about a house? They actualy would more defend no house for it says to be content with food and raiment.
  11. I agree with most of what you are saying John. Even if a nation has a Godly leader they will not be Godly until they give their hearts to the God of that leader. And your correct we cannot put our full faith in the politics of this world. Neither can we put our full faith in the faith of any other man, political or religious. But we are allowed to live in this world, therefore we should be doing what we can (putting feet to our prayers) to keep the freedoms to worship through the legal means we are given. And as I have pointed out, if we do not vote for the lessor of evils, we could not even vote for the men we think were Godly men of the Bible. They each would fall way short of the qualifications we would call the perfect man.
  12. Jesus parents home I do not see counting. Their sins were not counted as his, so if having a home were a sin them having one would not make him sinful. As to the book of Acts, we read Note that in verse 34 we read as many as were possessors. It does not say abundant houses, or extra it says possessors. Now you can define that as extra if you desire, but it does not say that it was extra. Those who did have homes and churches meeting there are just historic facts and do not negate the fact that Jesus tells us he did not have a place to lay his head (home) and the fact the book of acts points out that when the church drew close to God the members sold their homes. They were no longer tied to this world by "owning" a part of it. They looked only to the things of God!!! Now I will say that I own my home (or that God has given me the ability to posses the property that belongs to Him), and do not believe this to be a sin. My point is that the argument that Christ did not participat in politics is proof we should not is a bad argument. Their are many things that we are allowed to participate in that Jesus either could not (they were not invented) or did not participate in, yet they are not sinful in and of themselves. We can participate in them and work for him at the same time. Politics is one of these. Now I will admit readily that the majority of politicians today and throughout history have had sin in their lives. But at the same time I will tell you the majority of "preachers" have had some great sin in their lives. This in and of itself does not make it evil. Noah was declared in 2 Peter a preacher of righteousness, yet we find him getting drunk after getting off the ark. This is but one example of the fact that when we look at the life of any man through a magnifiing glass we will find sin. Does this make it right? No. But We are in this world. To totaly stay away from that fact we would have to go out of this world (1 Corinthians 5:10) and that is not God's plan. He has differant Jobs for each of us IN THIS WORLD. Mine is to teach young people in the church as I build homes in the world. Yours I am sure is differant. Anothers may be to show the world a man can stand for Christ while leading this nation back to God. Do I see this coming? No, I admit I do not. But when we look at the OT could the people have seen some of the times God used a single man to turn the nation back to himself (Gideon comes to mind). Are we fully putting our trust in God by saying no christian should try to turn our country back to God? Or would we be fully putting our trust in God by praying he send a Godly man that our nation would choose to follow. I feel it would be the latter. Is voting for the lesser of two evils right or wrong? Lets look at some more examples. Abraham the great patriarc. Who would not be willing to support a man like Abraham. Of course there is that thing of having a son out of wedlock with his wifes servant and then sending the woman and child away. I guess that Ideal man is out. I have already mentioned David and Solomon. How about a man like Good king Josiah. He did turn the nation back to God. Oh but wait, God ended his life early for fighting against a nation God was behind. So I guess knowing he lead against the wrong army, we had better not vote for him. The list could go on and on.
  13. In the verses you gave, where does it mention having a house?? I see food and clothing, but not a house. It does say to be content with what you have. Does that mean it is wrong for the homeless man to want a home, but fine for the millionare to have one??? I guess I am confused. All I know is Jesus (our example) did not have one, and those who were close to him in the book of Acts sold theirs. Can you give me a verse that says it is okay for us to have homes?
  14. My dad has told that he had an uncle that worked at a cattle stock yard. One day a man bid in some cows, and went to pay for them. The stock yard had counter checks for 2 different banks. They asked him which bank he needed. He told them it did not matter. And sure enough it did not matter, he did not have an account in either bank!!! I have also heard of a check being written on a watermelon rhine. All this was way before my time though.
  15. For those who say we should never vote for the lesser of two evils, Would you vote for a man who had an affair while in office and then gave orders to end her husband to the front line so he would be killed? if not you would not vote for a man like David, a man after God's own heart. Or perhaps a man with 700 wives and 300 more women on the side? Then you would not vote for Solomon, the man God had build the temple in Jerusalem. You see if we are not willing to vote for imperfect men, we would not approve of the men God put into place. Perhap if a man who was righteous enough to be a pastor was running we could vote for him, or would we critisize him for not preaching the gospel instead!!! As to Jesus not doing anything in politics, his entire reason for coming would have been undermind if he had, as he would have had to overthrow the roman empire, and become king. Then he would not have been crusified. He WILL come again one day and set up a kingdom. Now tell me how will me voting for a man that is not perfect undermine my work here on this earth? If I feel led (which I do not) to be president, how would that destroy my work for Christ? If I was led to do so it might be that God would use it to spread the Gospel through freedom. Another thought,(I have mentioned this before) Christ did not have a home (owned or rented). He traveled from town to town preaching. Those who feel that since Jesus did nothing political, neither should we need to move out of their homes (if they own they need to sell), quit trying to be conected to this old world, and travel preaching. Some may say "I do preach" but still have a home. Christ Never Had A Home, so neither should you!!!
  16. Not old enough to have seen them used, but I am familiar with them.
  17. I was predetermined to not believe that, lol.
  18. Jesus never held a full time job, but lived as a poor man off of nothing but donations. I guess when we are saved we should all quit our jobs and go into full time service. Jesus never owned a home (Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.) so none of us Christians should tie ourselves to this wicked world by owning a home or land. The example of Jesus is he never owned and these in acts when they got closest to God they sold there homes and land. You don't know of any Christians who are so far away from putting their full faith in God that they feel a need to be tied to this wicked world by owning a home do you Jerry?
  19. Have you told one single lie since you professed to be saved? Even one that you did not think out, just told on the spur of the moment? Has anyone ever asked you how are you and you answered fine even though you knew you were hurting in one way or another?
  20. We are so sorry. We will be praying for the Lord to take care of your Daddy.
  21. I agree Jerry, it is very straight forward. Abstain from, stay away. All, every bit. Appearance, view fashion shape. Evil, hurtful bad grievious. Now as I said, stay away from when you see something that IS bad. Not simply something someone says looks evil. There are many things in life that some think looks evil.
  22. This post is interesting in light of the Herman Cain topic. Some are for throwing Herman Cain under the bus because he put himself in a place most of us would not, but not in a place that was sinful. The thing that jumps at me about this is not whether the church will marry inter-racial couples. It is not whether they will allow inter-racial couples to preform special or teach a class. It is that they would not allow them to be members. Now John is correct it is not our place to try to change them. We have no authority over them. But I have not seen anyone saying we should. I have seen some saying they are acting very unchristian. But we do that about a lot of things. I see no difference here. We have a right to warn others when we have knowledge of a "church" that has pharisitical rules. So is what I would say about this church even though they rescinded it. We also have a tendancy to say if you do not like it, just go somewhere else. But let's consider this for a moment. A couple grow up lost with no christian people in their lives. The meet and get married. They are inter-racial. Two years later they become saved. How is not important, whether from hearing over the radio or perhaps they just decided to attend a revival, but as I said, it is unimportant. They have became saved. In their area there are very few churches. The only one that is even correct on salvation has a rule against having members who are inter-racial. Now I think most if not all of us agree that the Lord expects us to be members of a local New Testament church. What are they to do? Divorce? Start a house church even though they know very little scripture? What are they to do??
  23. I had wondered when this verse would be brought in. I was raised that this verse meant that if you are on the top of a hill and the valley below looks like it might be evil, whether it is or not, stay out. I do not believe that. For if it means stay away from anything that looks evil, we could not live in this world. To some, a woman with her hair in anything but a bun is being sinful. Does that mean that baptist women should wear only buns? It appears evil to some. There are some who have at least in the past felt it was evil to have chrome on your car. You don't have any chrome do you, you want to stay away from anything that appears evil after all. I could go on with more examples, some of which would not be appropriate for putting here that some have said is evil that we do in good conscionce. That is not what that verse is referring to. It is saying that if we see evil, to stay away from it. Not imaginary evil, but the real thing.
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