Is the KJVO "movement" dying?

[Ukulelemike]

2 hours ago, Alan said:

Brethren

I just thought I would give you one sample (of many), of thoughts of what some of the brethren at Baptist Board think concerning the KJVO brethren:

"The current edition of the KJVO myth is based upon 7TH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Benjamin Wilkinson's 1930 book, Our Authorized Bible Vindicated, (which was written in response to a squabble within his cult, not to start a new doctrine) and its being copied and hyped by several later "authors" using modern media to promote their wares. It's just a collection of old KJVO ideas, coupled with the fault-finding in newer versions by newer generations of KJVOs. It's the same ole garbage in a newly-painted dumpster.

However, a key, cardinal question KJVOs cannot answer correctly is BY WHAT AUTHORITY do they believe KJVO. it is NOT found in the KJV itself, nor in any of its sources. As baptists, we believe SCRIPTURE is the highest authority we have on earth for all matters of faith and worship, and there's so hint of KJVO in Scripture, by the least quark of the slightest implication.

Therefore, KJVO is simply another false, extra-Scriptural man-made doctrine. But, unfortunately, as several of you have said, it'll continue on, but I believe, it'll be much-more diminished as time passes. (After all, there are still "Flat-Earthers"!)"

By the way, the above quote is from the last person who posted on the Baptist Board today (I will forbear giving you his avatar name).

Interesting, but flawed overall.

  The Bible itself, (In KJV), declares often that it is preserved, that the words are pure, and that they are the very words of God, breathed by the Holy Ghost to the writers.  So, when one considers that the stated intent of the authors of the revised Greek text, Westcott and Hort, was to produce a Bible never before seen in Heaven or Earth, right there, the KJVO proponents are vindicated. Their sloppy workmanship, based on clearly corrupt texts, one of which may have even been a complete forgery from the 19th century, (Sinaiticus), and their desire to  bring into play certain Catholic doctrines, to which they were partial, makes their work extremely suspect.

As well, the antiquity of the TR, behind the KJV New testament, and the Masoretic, behind the KJV Old testament, speaks volumes to it's divine preservation. So no, there is AMPLE evidence of the great superiority of the King James over the new corrupt versions.

Will it be diminished as time passes? Well, possibly, but only because of the increased heresies and compromise within 'churches' the world over, and so-called IFB's who seem to want nothing to do with what it is to BE and IFB. 

[1Timothy115]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 8:14 AM, AdamL said:

I may get ostracized for this but I am going to share my opinion anyway...

Not from me. I will say that I believe Tozer nailed the underlying reason, link attached...

THE WANING AUTHORITY OF CHRIST IN THE CHURCHES
(last message before his death) A. W. Tozer, May 1963

[Jordan Kurecki]

On 6/13/2017 at 7:53 AM, Alan said:

Brethren

I just thought I would give you one sample (of many), of thoughts of what some of the brethren at Baptist Board think concerning the KJVO brethren:

"The current edition of the KJVO myth is based upon 7TH DAY ADVENTIST official Dr. Benjamin Wilkinson's 1930 book, Our Authorized Bible Vindicated, (which was written in response to a squabble within his cult, not to start a new doctrine) and its being copied and hyped by several later "authors" using modern media to promote their wares. It's just a collection of old KJVO ideas, coupled with the fault-finding in newer versions by newer generations of KJVOs. It's the same ole garbage in a newly-painted dumpster.

However, a key, cardinal question KJVOs cannot answer correctly is BY WHAT AUTHORITY do they believe KJVO. it is NOT found in the KJV itself, nor in any of its sources. As baptists, we believe SCRIPTURE is the highest authority we have on earth for all matters of faith and worship, and there's so hint of KJVO in Scripture, by the least quark of the slightest implication.

Therefore, KJVO is simply another false, extra-Scriptural man-made doctrine. But, unfortunately, as several of you have said, it'll continue on, but I believe, it'll be much-more diminished as time passes. (After all, there are still "Flat-Earthers"!)"

By the way, the above quote is from the last person who posted on the Baptist Board today (I will forbear giving you his avatar name).

Baptist Board is infested with a bunch of backsliders, heretics, and apostates. So much calvinism over on that site, I’ve clashed with people on that site on just about everything from music to KJO, to dispenationalism... pretty much any solid bible teaching will be argued with over on that site. 

[Pastorj]

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches. The false churches have moved away from the Word of God as Revelation 3 says they would. Church today are about entertainment and feel good, rather than solid Bible Preaching. As IFB churches fall away from the Word of God, they cease being "Good" churches.

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

[swathdiver]

19 hours ago, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches. The false churches have moved away from the Word of God as Revelation 3 says they would. Church today are about entertainment and feel good, rather than solid Bible Preaching. As IFB churches fall away from the Word of God, they cease being "Good" churches.

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

They cease being biblical churches as well.  Last May my children and I had the pleasure of meeting with the saints and hearing the Word faithfully preached at Berean Baptist Church over in Winston-Salem, not too far from you.  

[Saved41199]

On 12/22/2017 at 9:34 AM, Pastorj said:

 

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

I find this interesting, especially in North Carolina (Virginia native here). However, imagine our surprise to find a real, bible-preaching, bible-believing, soulwinning church in "sin city" of all places. My husband and I left the "hippy-skippy" feel-good, NIV (among others) using "megachurch". The Lord led my husband to think about where we attend church right at a year ago now. A year ago, we were still pretty lost, not connected to a community, spiritually comatose. One year later, we are connected, spiritually alive, my husband is saved. Don't ever doubt what God can do...ever! If someone had told me this would happen, I'd have told them they were clear out of their minds. 

[Pastorj]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 8:13 AM, swathdiver said:

Last May my children and I had the pleasure of meeting with the saints and hearing the Word faithfully preached at Berean Baptist Church over in Winston-Salem, not too far from you.  

I have not visited Berean. We visited over 50 churches in Winston, but that one was south of where we lived at the time.

On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 2:48 AM, Saved41199 said:

I find this interesting, especially in North Carolina (Virginia native here).

I have been shocked since moving to NC in 2010. A lot of the churches follow what I call "Camp style" preaching. This style has no substance and rarely opens the Bible. When they do, it is just to grab a verse that sounds good, but is almost always taken out of context.

Much of what is said is not "Unbiblical", but it does not meat Paul's definition of Preaching. Preaching must include "The Word".

A perfect example was this last Sunday. The pastor spoke about Christmas for 40 minutes. Nothing he said was wrong. But he quoted 1 verse and the passage he used did not support the 4 points he had. I am completely disgusted with what I have found for preaching in NC.

[Saved41199]

I would say I don't believe it, but knowing what it's like to starve to death going to church every Sunday...I do believe it. Might be why I'm in favor of a solid seminary education for a preacher before he starts preaching and attempting to feed the flock. Those poor folks are starving to death and don't even know it. (in the interest of full disclosure, I have one more elective class to take to finally finish my degree in Biblical Studies from Liberty University). 

It isn't easy to find a church that "serves a full meal" every Sunday. At our church, Sunday morning is like "brunch"...on the light side but satisfying. Sunday night is "dinner"...a full meal, may feel a little queasy after "eating" so much. Wednesday night is "supper"...maybe not as filling as dinner but takes care of the hunger but good until Sunday morning. 

These were listed in Statesville from http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=North Carolina

Calvary Baptist Church	Dr. Chris Haizlip	Statesville
Southview Baptist Church	Walter Wagner	Statesville
Elmwood First Baptist	Rodney G. McAllister	Statesville
Harvest Baptist Church	Dr. Donald Gant	Statesville
Command Baptist C hurch	Tony Fox	Statesville
Temple Baptist Church	Randall Mitchell	Statesville

These were listed in Winston Salem

Berean Baptist Church	Dr. Ronnie Baity	Winston Salem
Woodland Baptist Church	336-969-2088	Winston Salem
Lexwin Baptist Church	Pastor Erick Goff	Winston Salem
Lexwin Baptist Church	Pastor Erick Goff	Winston Salem
Vernon Forest Baptist Church	Pastor Coats	Winston-Salem
Missions Baptist Church	David Keaton	Winston-Salem
Liberty Baptist Church	Gary Styers	Winston-Salem
Liberty Baptist Church	Gary Styers	Winston-Salem

 

[Pastorj]

12 hours ago, Saved41199 said:

I would say I don't believe it, but knowing what it's like to starve to death going to church every Sunday...I do believe it. Might be why I'm in favor of a solid seminary education for a preacher before he starts preaching and attempting to feed the flock. Those poor folks are starving to death and don't even know it. (in the interest of full disclosure, I have one more elective class to take to finally finish my degree in Biblical Studies from Liberty University). 

It isn't easy to find a church that "serves a full meal" every Sunday. At our church, Sunday morning is like "brunch"...on the light side but satisfying. Sunday night is "dinner"...a full meal, may feel a little queasy after "eating" so much. Wednesday night is "supper"...maybe not as filling as dinner but takes care of the hunger but good until Sunday morning. 

These were listed in Statesville from http://fundamental.org/fundamental/churches/index.php3?action=listchurchesinstate&statename=North Carolina

Calvary Baptist Church	Dr. Chris Haizlip	Statesville - Camp Style Preaching - One Message preached was entitled Amazing Grace according to Isaac Newton - Preached out of the hymnal
Southview Baptist Church	Walter Wagner	Statesville - Unfriendliest church in the whole area - Pastor is no longer there. Assistant constantly took passages out of context
Elmwood First Baptist	Rodney G. McAllister	Statesville - Haven't visited this one as they have no website that I could find.
Harvest Baptist Church	Dr. Donald Gant	Statesville - Church has 130 people, 100+ from bus ministry.
Command Baptist C hurch	Tony Fox	Statesville - Never heard of this one
Temple Baptist Church	Randall Mitchell	Statesville - Street screaming is required of it's members - Much like Peter Ruckman's group in Florida

These were listed in Winston Salem

Berean Baptist Church	Dr. Ronnie Baity	Winston Salem - I didn't go to this as it was south of us about the same distance as the church we attended.
Woodland Baptist Church	336-969-2088	Winston Salem - Very Liberal church
Lexwin Baptist Church	Pastor Erick Goff	Winston Salem -
Lexwin Baptist Church	Pastor Erick Goff	Winston Salem - Never heard of this one.
Vernon Forest Baptist Church	Pastor Coats	Winston-Salem - I visited this church, but it was 7 years ago. We didn't go back
Missions Baptist Church	David Keaton	Winston-Salem - I visited this church, but it was 7 years ago. We didn't go back
Liberty Baptist Church	Gary Styers	Winston-Salem - Visited church a few years ago - Nice church, but messages were camp style
Liberty Baptist Church	Gary Styers	Winston-Salem

 

I don't agree with your meal analysis of preaching and neither does the Word of God.

Preaching is not a light brunch. Preaching is exposing the Word of God to those that are there so that the Holy Spirit can work in the lives of people. When we serve a light brunch, we are simply trying to entertain people to get them to come back. I have visited churches on Sunday Morning, Night and Wednesday nights and quite frankly what I have heard is either unbiblical, liberal or just a bunch of jokes and stories.

Out of over 100 churches between Statesville and Winston, I can count on 1 hand the number of churches that had Biblical preaching.

[Saved41199]

8 hours ago, Pastorj said:

I don't agree with your meal analysis of preaching and neither does the Word of God.

I was trying (and failing) to make an analogy of what our church is like. Sunday morning is often the time we get the most visitors so the sermon isn't quite as "heavy". This is a typical Sunday morning sermon https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=111917133539

Sunday night https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=115172159229

Wednesday night https://www.sermonaudio.com/saplayer/playpopup.asp?SID=118172217531

They're different sermons geared to the different folks gathered. Sunday morning is a little lighter, Sunday night is a good dinner and Wednesday night is a full supper...Thing is, church isn't supposed to be the only time for the word...there's a certain responsibility for the individual Christian to spend his own time reading/studying/learning. It's not all on the pastor. I can take you to the fanciest buffet here in sin city and if you choose not to eat, there's not a darn thing I can do to force you...same with folks in church. They can go every Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, the preacher can be one of the most serious, his sermons can be a PhD thesis every time and if folks don't want to eat, they won't. I can take you to Pho #2 (not a great restaurant) and if you're hungry enough, you'll find a way to make a meal out of it. Stop putting it all on the preacher...it's not all on him. You can sit, play with your phone, day dream and it doesn't matter how great the sermon is...you won't get a thing out of it. 

My pastor can be quite entertaining...he's funny, he's exuberant while he's preaching, he smiles a lot...are those hallmarks of a crummy preacher? 

[swathdiver]

What about the church that hosts the Sword of the Lord conferences?  They are in the northern part of Winston-Salem.  The name escapes me at the moment.

[Pastorj]

5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

What about the church that hosts the Sword of the Lord conferences?  They are in the northern part of Winston-Salem.  The name escapes me at the moment.

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

[OLD fashioned preacher]

On 12/22/2017 at 10:34 AM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches. The false churches have moved away from the Word of God as Revelation 3 says they would. Church today are about entertainment and feel good, rather than solid Bible Preaching. As IFB churches fall away from the Word of God, they cease being "Good" churches.

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

 

On 12/26/2017 at 9:52 AM, Pastorj said:

I have not visited Berean. We visited over 50 churches in Winston, but that one was south of where we lived at the time.

I have been shocked since moving to NC in 2010. A lot of the churches follow what I call "Camp style" preaching. This style has no substance and rarely opens the Bible. When they do, it is just to grab a verse that sounds good, but is almost always taken out of context.

Much of what is said is not "Unbiblical", but it does not meat Paul's definition of Preaching. Preaching must include "The Word".

A perfect example was this last Sunday. The pastor spoke about Christmas for 40 minutes. Nothing he said was wrong. But he quoted 1 verse and the passage he used did not support the 4 points he had. I am completely disgusted with what I have found for preaching in NC.

 

On 12/28/2017 at 6:42 AM, Pastorj said:

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

Understand that I'm Southern born and Southern bred --- and when I die I'll be Southern dead!! BUT, far too many Southern IB preachers are cotton candy  preachers -- all fluff, no substance. Southern folk (as a whole) like it that way, unfortunately. Most campmeetings will have messages that the other preachers can shout about. Am I against shouting? Not when it's real. Does shouting make the service more (or less) real? No. Is "putting on the dog" carnal? Yep! There used to be a good campmeeting in Boomer, N.C. but, alas, it is no more.

[Pastorj]

OFP - I am not against shouting, but the yelling I hear is not preaching. I have heard great yelling preachers and I love it when the people get excited about good preaching, but I am afraid to say that the lack of good preaching is why IFB churches are dying

[Pastorj]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 12:34 PM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches.

I made this statement early in the discussion wondering if someone would want to discuss. Are you KJVO or OKJV?