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Is the KJVO "movement" dying?

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5 hours ago, swathdiver said:

What about the church that hosts the Sword of the Lord conferences?  They are in the northern part of Winston-Salem.  The name escapes me at the moment.

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

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On 12/22/2017 at 10:34 AM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches. The false churches have moved away from the Word of God as Revelation 3 says they would. Church today are about entertainment and feel good, rather than solid Bible Preaching. As IFB churches fall away from the Word of God, they cease being "Good" churches.

There are 100 IFB churches in a 30 min radius of me. None preach the Word of God. Most use the KJV when they use Scripture, but that is far from what good churches were 30 years ago.

 

On 12/26/2017 at 9:52 AM, Pastorj said:

I have not visited Berean. We visited over 50 churches in Winston, but that one was south of where we lived at the time.

I have been shocked since moving to NC in 2010. A lot of the churches follow what I call "Camp style" preaching. This style has no substance and rarely opens the Bible. When they do, it is just to grab a verse that sounds good, but is almost always taken out of context.

Much of what is said is not "Unbiblical", but it does not meat Paul's definition of Preaching. Preaching must include "The Word".

A perfect example was this last Sunday. The pastor spoke about Christmas for 40 minutes. Nothing he said was wrong. But he quoted 1 verse and the passage he used did not support the 4 points he had. I am completely disgusted with what I have found for preaching in NC.

 

On 12/28/2017 at 6:42 AM, Pastorj said:

Gospel Light Baptist Church in Walkertown.

They are conservative with good music. The bus ministry overpowers the church 1700 on the buses and only 2500 total attendance.
I love the pastor as a pastor, but his messages are nothing but stories. I call it story time with Bro. Bobby. He makes a great conference speaker, but quite frankly, I haven't heard a "Message" in any visit I have made, which has been many since the church was 2 miles from my house and my kids went to the school.

The assistant is a really good preacher.

Understand that I'm Southern born and Southern bred --- and when I die I'll be Southern dead!! BUT, far too many Southern IB preachers are cotton candy  preachers -- all fluff, no substance. Southern folk (as a whole) like it that way, unfortunately. Most campmeetings will have messages that the other preachers can shout about. Am I against shouting? Not when it's real. Does shouting make the service more (or less) real? No. Is "putting on the dog" carnal? Yep! There used to be a good campmeeting in Boomer, N.C. but, alas, it is no more.

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OFP - I am not against shouting, but the yelling I hear is not preaching. I have heard great yelling preachers and I love it when the people get excited about good preaching, but I am afraid to say that the lack of good preaching is why IFB churches are dying

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On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 12:34 PM, Pastorj said:

I would agree that KJVO and OKJV are both rooted within the IFB churches.

I made this statement early in the discussion wondering if someone would want to discuss. Are you KJVO or OKJV?

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The Holy Spirit burdens our hearts to unite with the right church.  Not only do we learn in and grow in grace but we also contribute to that church, bringing with us special God-given gifts that are a blessing to all the saints, including the pastor.  None of them are perfect of course and will be less so when you unite with one.  If Gospel light is where the Lord wants, you, go there and unite with them.  Learn to love story time with Brother Bobby.  Someday, you may be called to pastor that church but be careful of moving the ancient landmarks.  

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58 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

The Holy Spirit burdens our hearts to unite with the right church.  Not only do we learn in and grow in grace but we also contribute to that church, bringing with us special God-given gifts that are a blessing to all the saints, including the pastor.  None of them are perfect of course and will be less so when you unite with one.  If Gospel light is where the Lord wants, you, go there and unite with them.  Learn to love story time with Brother Bobby.  Someday, you may be called to pastor that church but be careful of moving the ancient landmarks.  

No Christian should settle for "Story Time". It is not preaching, which is what Preachers are called to do.

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swathdriver - Btw, not trying to be critical, but it is this very acceptance of bad preaching that our IFB churches are dying. If I can go to a liberal non-denom church and get better preaching than an IFB church, we have succumbed to the Laodicean Church age.

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1 hour ago, Pastorj said:

swathdriver - Btw, not trying to be critical, but it is this very acceptance of bad preaching that our IFB churches are dying. If I can go to a liberal non-denom church and get better preaching than an IFB church, we have succumbed to the Laodicean Church age.

You keep saying that "IFB churches are dying". 

I know there are churches closing and opening all the time, but the reason some IFB churches are dying is more often than not laziness on the part of Pastors, or scandal of some sort.

But in reality, IFB churches are not dying. Not generally.

In fact, in my area we are seeing more and more people turn from rock n roll compromise churches and looking for KJV, Bible preaching, hymn singing churches.

I guess I just don't agree with the generalisation.....

 

Edited by DaveW
Phone spelling

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13 hours ago, Pastorj said:

I made this statement early in the discussion wondering if someone would want to discuss. Are you KJVO or OKJV?

can you distinguish between the two and explain each position?

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15 hours ago, DaveW said:

You keep saying that "IFB churches are dying". 

I know there are churches closing and opening all the time, but the reason some IFB churches are dying is more often than not laziness on the part of Pastors, or scandal of some sort.

But in reality, IFB churches are not dying. Not generally.

In fact, in my area we are seeing more and more people turn from rock n roll compromise churches and looking for KJV, Bible preaching, hymn singing churches.

I guess I just don't agree with the generalisation.....

 

DaveW - The topic of this thread is "Is the KJVO Movement dying". Since this is tied to IFB, I have added that I believe IFB churches are dying for a number of reasons.

1. In the Bible belt where there are 100's of churches and unfortunately the vast majority either no longer or never preached the Word of God, I count those dead. They may have lots of people, but when God's Word is not faithfully preached, the church has no value.
2. The majority of churches that do preach the Word of God have no life in them. Though the preaching is good, the people don't care. They don't care about visitors, they don't respond to the preaching, the church is just withering away. In 20 years, everyone will have passed and the church will be gone.

Now, I know that is a lot of generalization, but the reality is that the number of good churches has declined significantly in the last 20 years. For every 1 church that opens its doors, 10 churches close and that was in 2007.

How do we prevent this from happening
1. Pastors need to stop the entertaining speeches and get back to Preaching the Word of God. It is the Word of God that impacts lives.
2. People need to stop being self centered and start caring about other Christians and the lost.

Churches need to get back to being churches instead of being Sunday entertainment.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

can you distinguish between the two and explain each position?

KJVO - King James Version Only - This position holds to the KJV being the Inspired Word of God, either through Preservation (Biblical) or through re-inspiration (Ruckmanite - Not Biblical)
1. A KJVO individual believes that the KJV is the only version that English speaking individuals should ever use. They reject all modern translations and any future modern translations.
2. Extremists in this position will also say that the KJV should be used to translate the Bible into other languages.
3. Even further to the extreme, there are some in this camp that believe that if you are not saved from a KJV, they you are not saved as the KJV is the only version which is the Word of God and saves people.

OKJV - Only King James Version - This position also holds to the KJV being the inspired Word of God, but would completely reject the Ruckmanite position of re-inspiration.
1. The KJV is inspired through Preservation as promised in Scripture. Inspiration was only in the original manuscripts, but the KJV can be considered the "Inspired Word of God" because of Preservation
2. The OKJV individual is open to a future modern translation as long as that translation meets the same criteria of the KJV. (Probably never going to happen, but they are open to it). The reason it won't happen is because those that are qualified to actually do the translation are not willing and those that are willing, are not capable.

Though the average KJVO and OKJV are basically the same in their position, the willingness for God to continue his preservation in a new translation is not acceptable to the KJVO group.

 

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2 hours ago, Pastorj said:

KJVO - King James Version Only - This position holds to the KJV being the Inspired Word of God, either through Preservation (Biblical) or through re-inspiration (Ruckmanite - Not Biblical)
1. A KJVO individual believes that the KJV is the only version that English speaking individuals should ever use. They reject all modern translations and any future modern translations.
2. Extremists in this position will also say that the KJV should be used to translate the Bible into other languages.
3. Even further to the extreme, there are some in this camp that believe that if you are not saved from a KJV, they you are not saved as the KJV is the only version which is the Word of God and saves people.

OKJV - Only King James Version - This position also holds to the KJV being the inspired Word of God, but would completely reject the Ruckmanite position of re-inspiration.
1. The KJV is inspired through Preservation as promised in Scripture. Inspiration was only in the original manuscripts, but the KJV can be considered the "Inspired Word of God" because of Preservation
2. The OKJV individual is open to a future modern translation as long as that translation meets the same criteria of the KJV. (Probably never going to happen, but they are open to it). The reason it won't happen is because those that are qualified to actually do the translation are not willing and those that are willing, are not capable.

Though the average KJVO and OKJV are basically the same in their position, the willingness for God to continue his preservation in a new translation is not acceptable to the KJVO group.

Another difference between the KJVO position and the OKJV position would be their differing viewpoint concerning Bible study through the use of the original languages, Hebrew and Greek.  Those of the KJVO position would view it as a major negative (maybe even, a sinful negative); those of the OKJV position would view it as a useful positive.

In addition, those of the OKJV position will often indicate that what they really are is MTO (Massoretic Text Only) for the Hebrew of the Old Testament & TRO (Textus Receptus Only; Received Text Only) for the Greek of the New Testament.  

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle

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Pastorj, I am not suggesting you settle at all.  I am suggesting that if the Holy Spirit leads you to that church, unite with it.  Your gifts and influence may change the ways of the preacher or lead to a change in who stands in the pulpit.  Again, this is the work of the Holy Ghost through the hearts of submissive and humbled men.  

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 10:38 AM, swathdiver said:

Pastorj, I am not suggesting you settle at all.  I am suggesting that if the Holy Spirit leads you to that church, unite with it.  Your gifts and influence may change the ways of the preacher or lead to a change in who stands in the pulpit.  Again, this is the work of the Holy Ghost through the hearts of submissive and humbled men.  

swathdriver - I did not intend to argue about this with you, but this is unfortunately the mentality that has gotten our IFB churches to where they are today. The Holy Spirit would never lead any Christian to a church where there is no preaching,. The vast majority of Christians are not being led by the Holy Spirit, they are being led by their emotions and entertainment value. They go to a church and leave happy so that must mean the Holy Spirit is leading them there. Christians should go to church to be edified, reproved and rebuked by the Word of God. If the Word of God is not preached, all you did was get entertained.

My gifts and influence will not change the ways of a "yeller or story teller". I will not refer to them as preachers as they do not "Preach".

People need to hold the Pastor to a Biblical level and mandate that he "Preaches". It's a sad state of America that we are missing this in our churches.

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Weary Warrior - You are absolutely correct. Churches stopped training young men and started relying on schools like BJU, PCC, Crown and a few others. Though I like these institutions, they do not train young men to pastor churches. The young men come out completely clueless and usually have no basis of the Bible. I encourage young men to go to "Preacher Schools" like New England Baptist College, or other church run schools out there.

Independent Baptist Churches need to get back to what made them - The Word of God!

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I think the problem is much more basic and systemic than this. Never mind the perceived state of these institutions because none are Scriptural.

The entire practice of higher learning institutions in which "young" men are trained to "pastor other" churches came from the RCC and later mimicked by protestant denominations. Not one jot nor tittle is Scriptural IMO.

 

 

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 7:49 PM, BroMatt said:

Right now, there are more KJV Churches in Connecticut than when I was a kid. I'm not saying that they are all good Churches, but there does seem to be a surge in KJV Churches in New England.

Matt,

You are correct about New England, but I will tell you the Bible Belt is dying fast. in a 30 mile radius of my home, there are about 100 Independent Baptist Churches and I would say that 1 or 2 preach the Word of God and neither of them are "Alive'

Winston Salem was the same way. Over 100 IFB churches and I can count on 1 hand the number of churches that are not dead.

There are more good churches in CT, than there are around me.

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:00 AM, Gorship said:

I ask this for your opinions, thoughts, and insights.

 

I sometimes post on another board and (hopefully its ok) I would like to link a thread that is going on over there. NOT so that we can all march over there and say "huzzah! you're wrong!" but rather I would like to have this discussion on here. I will probably be starting another thread I would like to get some more opinions on that is in tandem to this thread but worthy of a secondary set of thought patterns.

 

Without futher ado this is the link:

Click me! 

So the thread there is pretty simple: 

Apparently DBS is "Fractured" due to Riplingers divorces (although Dean burgeon has been a TR-Only group not  KJVO group but anyway)
Ruckman has passed away
Steven Anderson is a menace (which I don't disagree with)
Etc..

Do you see the KJB issue still in full force or not?
 

Just a novice here, but I would not call the KJVO a movement, it has been the foundational Bible  long before the  other existing versions.  

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