What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

[Danny Carlton]

There are African Christians who stay away from the drums and public dancing. In the United Stated, in the 18th and 19th centuries, drums were forbidden (ie. against the law) in black congregations in every state except for New Orleans. Those slaves coming out of Africa that got saved wanted nothing to do with drums in their worship of the true God - as they could see two hundred years ago what was wrong with them, as they came out of that. But today Christendom does whatever it wants and justifies it at the same time. Its okay as long as its "Christian" - it doesn't matter what it is, I can put a Christian label on it. How can you say my Christian rock and roll/country is wrong - it is "Christian" after all!!

Africans brought here were discouraged from using drums because that was their method of long distance communication. Holding an entire people group imprisoned as slaves brings the real possibility of revolt. Long distance communication would be a valuable tool, back then, in organizing such a revolt. So drums were outlawed. Jim Crow states kept the laws because the people making the laws were generally too stupid to understand why after the threat no longer existed.

[kevinmiller]

So if there is an ungodly music style, what makes it inherently wrong? This is an honest question. We can make the claim that the rock beat is wrong, but why is it wrong? Just because it's there? For something to be wrong, it must violate a command or cause you to violate a command. If it causes you to violate a command, then it could be wrong for you but not for someone else to whom it doesn't cause them to fall.

[Guest Guest]

And through some magical portal, you alone have the definitive sound of what is holy to God? The reason Moses knew that it was not the sound of holy music to God is because it was different than what they had sang before. Now, unless you either posses a time machine or highly psychic skills, there is no way that you would know what either of those different music types sounded like, would you? I usually ask rhetorical questions - it's the teacher in me.

I wouldn't say "magic" or "psychic" or "me alone", however, it is written:

"John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

"Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

"1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."



This is the filter all music must pass through before it can be possibly considered Godly.

"Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Is the music fleshly?

"Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

"1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

Does the music in any way contain the spirit of the world?

"Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

Would the music fit this?

"Glatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

What is most often evident in the lives of those who enjoy or promote the music "style". Corruption or life?

"Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

"Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

Does the song and music tend to teach, admonish? Does it show grace?


"Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Hardly what would first come to the mind of anyone, even those who like it, when thinking of the music style of rap, rock, etc.

Now I know you are unlikely to hear this, but the Holy Spirit will not teach one person something is wrong and another person that it is ok. Period. However, it is truly written:

"1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Just one last example from my personal life in this case. :Green

I occasionally can play CD's in my work place depending on the area I am currently working in and when I have done so in the past various lost coworkers have from time to time commented on my "peaceful", "holy", "church music", even though the CD's didn't even have words... This is apposed to the violent rap and rock that is usually blaring... If the lost can tell Godly Christian music without even hearing words why do professing Christians deny the music has any importance?

[Guest Guest]

So if there is an ungodly music style' date=' what makes it inherently wrong? This is an honest question. We can make the claim that the rock beat is wrong, but why is it wrong? Just because it's there? For something to be wrong, it must violate a command or cause you to violate a command. If it causes you to violate a command, then it could be wrong for you but not for someone else to whom it doesn't cause them to fall.[/quote']

Hi Kevin! :smile I am merely speaking for myself with Rock music. I never cared for Rap :lol ...but, in my teens, I listened to Heavy Metal music. I prefer Gospel music and Contemporary Christian (if it is soothing to my soul). Otherwise...I get off tract. This is just my opinion on the matter. Like I said, Country, Bluegrass, and even Jazz, and Blues don't affect me. It is just the music that brings me back to the old "party days" that I avoid. JMHO, on my styles. I don't speak for anyone, but myself here. :thumb If I listen to Gospel or Contemporary Christian (soul soothing) I feel like my soul is uplifted to the umph degree.

candlelight

[Guest Guest]

Thanks Seth, for your in-depth answer to my question. I too use the exact same criteria to discern which music is right or wrong music for me to enjoy. No one, especially a musician, would say that the musical style has no importance. In fact, many musicians would say quite the opposite, and I would tend to agree. I suppose my only question to any who seem 100% sure on which music is and is not appropriate is this: The music that you consider now, at this point in time, to be acceptable was, at some other point in time, considered to be contemporary and many times improper. Independent Baptist churches play music in church that non-Christians wouldn't even dance to in the past. What made that style suddenly acceptable? Is relevance to culture the issue, or is it truly what God finds acceptable? Does good Christian musical style stay the same or does it change with culture? Any thinking person (which I know you to be) will have to acquiesce to the obvious fact that it does, indeed, change. Is it therefore wrong for changing? Will the hymns twenty years from now sound like what you have in church today, or will it sound like what you dislike in church today? I was most likely unclear before - but this is why this argument goes on and on and on...and on...and on....

[pep_3000]

How can you take rhythms that people use in occult practices and try and worship God with them? Adding "Christian" sounding words do not nullify what the purpose of the rhythm was originally used for.......you are just mixing two things that cannot be combined. (light with darkness)

The same way that you take a language that that was used for evil purposes and use it to praise God. Here is an example. In Arabic the word for God is Allah, so Christians who speak Arabic use "Allah." Is that wrong, or should they learn another language or word? Plus, your biggest problem is your assumption that those rythems are somehow inheriantly evil. Something that is never mentioned in the Bible. And again, Satan could not be behind Christian Rock, because he would be opposing himself, which Jesus said that he could not do.

You are automatically assuming that God gave us a perfect, godly form of music for Satan to then corrupt.

Yes I am.

I have never seen a record of that, have you?

"Exodus 32:17-18 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear."

That "noise" of singing here means a song that sounds like yelling. Now what kind of singing sounds like war and yelling? Guess. I will give you a hint, it is not Godly music.

You are basing your definition of "godly" on your own musical preferences. This is why this argument has gone on for years, and will continue to do so.

This "argument" goes on only because:

"Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD."

And this perfect Godly form of music just happened to be the one that was developed in Europe during between the fall of Rome and the 1950's? What did people do before that style came along?

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.

I will also add that the music in Heaven is not Rock-N-Roll, Rap, Heavy Metal...or anything that is deemed un-Godly. Heaven is filled with good, Godly music...one can only imagine how beautiful it really is.

How do you know that? Have you been there? Maybe God sent you a personal CD?

This is the filter all music must pass through before it can be possibly considered Godly.

"Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Is the music fleshly?

"Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

"1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

Does the music in any way contain the spirit of the world?

"Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

Would the music fit this?

"Glatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

What is most often evident in the lives of those who enjoy or promote the music "style". Corruption or life?

"Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

"Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

Does the song and music tend to teach, admonish? Does it show grace?


"Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Hardly what would first come to the mind of anyone, even those who like it, when thinking of the music style of rap, rock, etc.

Now I know you are unlikely to hear this, but the Holy Spirit will not teach one person something is wrong and another person that it is ok. Period. However, it is truly written:

I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.

[dwayner79]

Thanks Dwayner for the article. I have read about half of it so far.

Did you get a chance to finish? I read it over the weekend, and was curious about what you thought.

My favorite quote from the article:

So it is, I am convinced, with every cult. The cult is either born out of a reaction to a contemporary culture or out of a desire to transplant another culture into the current culture of that day. In order to do so, the gospel is distorted and the convert?s conformity to the new culture becomes the measure of his ?faith.? To the extent that the Christian church loses sight of the power of the gospel to save and to sanctify a man or woman in any culture, it will pervert the gospel and will seek to establish another culture. Conformity to this lifestyle becomes the measure of one?s righteousness.

I must admit that in times past I have been rather cultish in this instance. We need to be careful.

[Guest Guest]

I suppose my only question to any who seem 100% sure on which music is and is not appropriate is this: The music that you consider now, at this point in time, to be acceptable was, at some other point in time, considered to be contemporary and many times improper. Independent Baptist churches play music in church that non-Christians wouldn't even dance to in the past. What made that style suddenly acceptable? Is relevance to culture the issue, or is it truly what God finds acceptable? Does good Christian musical style stay the same or does it change with culture?

Give me some proof of that. I will assume we are speaking of songs sung in conservative IFB churches, because if not, I have heard plenty of ungodly, worldy, music at churches that still had the IFB label... I don't agree with them either...

I have hymnals from the 1800's that have songs from the 17 and 18 hundreds and the music would fit just fine in a conservative IFB church. Some of the songs we still sing today. The strangest thing about the old hymnals isn't the music, it is the fact that they don't number the songs and there is no index. How they would go about finding a particular song I have no idea.

As far as whether good Christian music changes with the culture, no it doesn't. That does not mean that there is only one style of music that is Christian, but since Godly Christian music is not any more part of the world than a Christian should be, the music isn't going to be a reflection of what is popular in the world. As it is written:

"2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.

I hope you are not serious, but since I think you are...

First of all, God tells Moses what is going on and tells Moses to leave him alone to destroy them. Moses prays for them and God does not destroy them. Moses then goes down the mount to deal with the problem. He already knew about the idol, he knew what was going on. Secondly a lets look at the verse where Moses loses his temper.

"Exodus 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."

The Lord had already told Moses what was going on, that is why he knew it was singing not "a noise of war", but when he actually got close enough to see everything else too he lost his temper. You can see from this verse he wasn't to fond of the dancing, it wasn't "just" the calf, it was the whole situation, the calf was part of the problem but not all. I do hope you do not really feel that a type of violent(which alone would make it ungodly)"music", so different from Godly music Joshua thought it was war, and sung by wicked people while naked and worshiping an idol, was "ok" in and of itself. If you do, nothing anyone could say could change your mind, and I certainly won't attempt it.

I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.

It certainly can exclude certain "styles" of music.

[Guest Guest]

The same way that you take a language that that was used for evil purposes and use it to praise God. Here is an example. In Arabic the word for God is Allah, so Christians who speak Arabic use "Allah." Is that wrong, or should they learn another language or word? Plus, your biggest problem is your assumption that those rythems are somehow inheriantly evil. Something that is never mentioned in the Bible. And again, Satan could not be behind Christian Rock, because he would be opposing himself, which Jesus said that he could not do.



And this perfect Godly form of music just happened to be the one that was developed in Europe during between the fall of Rome and the 1950's? What did people do before that style came along?

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.



How do you know that? Have you been there? Maybe God sent you a personal CD?



I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.

Pep_3000...If you are truly being sincere about the music in Heaven, I will give you a few passages from scripture. Revelation 14:2-3...And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from earth. KJV. "Messages of the Angels".

Also...II Chronicles 5:12-13...Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries, and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; KJV. "The Ark Placed in the Temple".

As far as ever being to Heaven...I hope, believe, and imagine. Faith is my source...and the Bible is my passport. Yes, I suppose you could say that God did send me a personal CD. :thumb The mystery of Heaven...and, the beautiful music there, lies deep within my heart, mind, and soul. God has given me His Grace and I accepted it by Faith in His only son, Jesus Christ.


candlelight

P.S. ~ Scroll through the KJV Bible and you will find many hidden mysteries of Heaven, including beautiful music.

[Kenny5682]

II cannot help but close my eyes and imagine somebody singing a song like "We Fall Down" or "Awesome God." They cry as they focus on the goodness and the mercy of a God who would send His Son to die for them despite their shortcomings and sinful lifestyle. They meditate on how God rescued them from their sin and washed them clean. They are smiling, with tears flowing... Then I imagine walking up to them and saying "How can you call yourself a legit Christian, worshiping to this kind of music?"

It's at that point, I feel like I've missed the point. If a person loves God, and worships Him out of love for Him with his or her whole heart; do you really think God is going to frown upon them because the music is contemporary or specific instruments are used?

I've been on both sides of this debate in my walk. I've leaned one way, then leaned the other. Paul once spoke about eating food sacrificed to Idols, and claimed that a Christian can eat food sacrificed to Idols receiving it with thanksgiving from God provided they are solid enough in their faith to do so. Without conviction, even in the name of Jesus Christ Himself, I will go as far as to say that you; as a Christian, if you are solid in your faith can worship God with thanksgiving while singing and enjoying Contemporary Christian Music.

As for Christian Rock, that's touchy. The image and character often portrayed and promoted by Christian Rock artists is usually anything but Holy and Godly. I've considered applying the same principle I use with Contemporary to Christian Rock, but I'm not quite there yet. I don't want to be judgmental, but when I see a crowd of people slamming into each other and screaming at the top of their lungs I don't see God being worshiped; I see people indulging in the flesh.

[Jerry]

II cannot help but close my eyes and imagine somebody singing a song like "We Fall Down" or "Awesome God." They cry as they focus on the goodness and the mercy of a God who would send His Son to die for them despite their shortcomings and sinful lifestyle. They meditate on how God rescued them from their sin and washed them clean. They are smiling' date=' with tears flowing... Then I imagine walking up to them and saying "How can you call yourself a legit Christian, worshiping to this kind of music?"[/quote']

No one is questioning someone's Christianity based on the music they listen to. Perhaps question their separation and walk with the Lord.

But I can just see God going, "I'm glad you are worshipping me - but why are you worshipping me based on songs written by those who were religious - who don't know me?" Rich Mullins was joining the Catholic church when he died - that tells me he believed in a works-based salvation - no matter how good his songs may sound.



The issue has never been whether a song is new (ie. contemporary) or old - but whether it is Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) - which is worldly rock (in all its forms) or country music.



Is God pleased with that though? Sounds like lighting strange fire or perhaps reaching out and touching the ark to steady it - contrary to what God has commanded. Those two Biblical examples show that we can't just approach God any old way. He wants His children to be separated in our lives - I believe that also means being separated in our musical choices.

[Guest Guest]

Jerry...I just had a thought. The music in Heaven is absolutely VERY Godly! Otherwise, why would anyone want to go to Heaven if we would listen to the "same old same old" that is on earth? Goodness, NO! This is a mute point for me, I guess. I certainly don't want to hear rock-n-roll Christianty in Heaven. Besides...the Bible doesn't talk about such music, anywhere. JMHO is all. :thumb

candlelight

[kevinmiller]

I have a lot of respect for your thoughts on the subject, Kenny. It sounds rather similar to my own experience and thoughts on it. I've really truly come to believe that where our heart is is the most important thing. We can pray a prayer and not get saved if our heart isn't in it. We can use contemporary or conservative Christian music to worship God and be singing empty words if our heart isn't in a state of worship before God. That's something I've come to respect of those who use more contemporary means of worship, they seem to truly mean what they are saying and truly have a worshipful heart before God. On the other hand, it seems that many people who use conservative music will simply go through the motions and sing the hymns with little feeling behind it. Not always, but many times, it seems.

There are some really great CCM songs out there that can really bring you into a heart of worship. To sing "I Can Only Imagine" or "Who Am I" and really think about what your singing is amazing. I've grown up in churches where things were done by the book and the routine was followed week after week and I never really saw any passion amongst churchmembers. It was something I wanted to see amongst fellow Christians, I wanted to be able to see other people expressing the passion that I felt and to be able to express that with them. To tell the truth, when I came here, I was a little taken back by the contrast to what I was used to and it unnerved me a little. I wasn't used to people calling on God verbally or crying to a song that really spoke to their heart or sharing your heart and praying for one another in small groups. I think it is so much closer to what we really ought to be doing in the Body of Christ, though. Sure, there are things here that I disagree with or believe they are in error on. However, I believe this is what true Christianity is, despite what we might disagree on, encouraging and loving and praying for one another. I know that the churchmembers here would be there to help me if I ever needed it and I've never had that assurance from local fellow Christians.

I think it is difficult to take a stance of separation in music, though. Biblically, I mean. I don't agree with separation to the degree that many others believe in, I think it is a separation from things that are ungodly, things that are of Satan and prohibited in Scripture. However, the Bible never really speaks about musical styles or what is right or wrong in music. I can't figure out what makes that music wrong, logically or Biblically.

[Jerry]

I won't sing Rock - but I will sing about my Rock.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Psalms 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

[Guest Guest]

Hi Kevin. I enjoyed reading your post. I do agree with what you said about "singing empty words if our heart isn't in a state of worship before God". My pastor always encourages and challenges us to prepare our heart for worship and praise. The music in my church is themed...therefore, it flows along with my pastor's message...and, is very heart-provoking. I always feel the Holy Spirit at work in my church through music and His word being preached.

candlelight