Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest Guest

What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

Recommended Posts

I think 2003 or something. They're most recent album is the Altar and the Door. Some of my favorite songs are Who Am I, Lifesong, East to West, If We Are the Body, Stained Glass Masquerade, etc. You can find them all on youtube. :smile

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
I think 2003 or something. They're most recent album is the Altar and the Door. Some of my favorite songs are Who Am I' date=' Lifesong, East to West, If We Are the Body, Stained Glass Masquerade, etc. You can find them all on youtube. :smile[/quote']

Thank you! I will check them out! :thumb That was the year I got saved!

candlelight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a long-time lurker and first-time poster...

It almost sounds like you are condemning a Christian song because a lot of people liked it and were touched by it. Do you have a problem with the lyrics? The theme of being excited to see just what eternity holds? The chorus goes like this...

Surrounded by Your glory, what will my heart feel
Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of you be still
Will I stand in your presence or to my knees will I fall
Will I sing hallelujah, will I be able to speak at all
I can only imagine

I probably would have written something other than "dance for you", but I believe the message is clear that the greatness of Heaven and being forever in the presence of Jesus, and the excitement of that eternity, is beyond an adequate description or human understanding. (By the way, if you are a Southern Gospel fan like I am, Ivan Parker does a beautiful version of this song.)

I still question you making such statements without being familiar with the song - but I'm new around here, and am still learning.

This song reminds me of "Oh that will be, glory for me" which ends with "When by His grace I shall look on His face, that will be glory for me".

Sorry to address more than one topic here, but it has been mentioned in this thread. I understand the importance of resisting "worldly" influence in clothing. But the implication in the comments is that Christians should only wear clothing that no one else wears. I know many non-Christian folks who wear suits and ties daily. If we are not to emulate those sinner's clothing, what is left? Where is the line between worldly clothes vs. non-worldly, and who defines that line?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
It almost sounds like you are condemning a Christian song because a lot of people liked it and were touched by it. Do you have a problem with the lyrics? The theme of being excited to see just what eternity holds? The chorus goes like this...


Let me ask you a question, in your opinion, was it the music that made it popular or the lyrics? Look at what was said about it and the "awards" it won...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/28/earlyshow/saturday/secondcup/main1560598.shtml?source=RSS&attr=_1560598

Also note that here the news calls them a "crossover" group. That right there shows that even the secular cbs news realizes just how worldly CCM like they produce is. You wouldn't sell 4 million copies of Godly music unless a major revival was shaking the nation. I don't think I would have missed it if one was. :wink


Strangely ironic how the secular media is a viable source for some news, and not for others, huh?

Living in the space coast of Florida, I know why that song made it to national airplay. The commander of the shuttle Columbia, Rick Husband, was a Christian and played that song every morning on board the shuttle as a wake up call for his crew. When the shuttle exploded, the song gained national attention. Albeit through terrible circumstances, God brought attention to Himself through tragedy - even if it was unconventional to our line of thought. Our God is anything but conventional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
Strangely ironic how the secular media is a viable source for some news, and not for others, huh?


I don't see the issue with that unless your just using rhetoric? I think we can safely say that if the world admits something is worldly, it probably is...


Living in the space coast of Florida, I know why that song made it to national airplay. The commander of the shuttle Columbia, Rick Husband, was a Christian and played that song every morning on board the shuttle as a wake up call for his crew. When the shuttle exploded, the song gained national attention. Albeit through terrible circumstances, God brought attention to Himself through tragedy - even if it was unconventional to our line of thought. Our God is anything but conventional.


You think those 4 million cd's have gone to bible believing Christians? Or have they influenced the lost for good? No, they mostly just ended up with the other rock music in the collections of lost carnal people. It fits right in. You don't beat the devil by joining him, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Let me ask you a question, in your opinion, was it the music that made it popular or the lyrics? Look at what was said about it and the "awards" it won...


I think both lyrics and music made it popular. There have been many successful "spiritual" songs that have done well on popular radio, such as "Spirit in the Sky", "God Bless America", "God Bless the USA", "Oh Happy Day", and several others. Those songs acknowledge God but little more. "I Can Only Imagine" was the first song in my memory that blatantly and unashamedly proclaims the hope and desire of heaven that has reached such a wide and diverse audience. And yes - it mentions Jesus by name!

Regarding the music, in my opinion it uses a similar structural technique to one of my favorite hymns, "Low in the Grave He Lay". It starts off low and subdued, then as it progresses into the chorus, the excitement level increases then climaxes at the end.

Do you feel that Christians have "joined the world" if they are financially successful? Chick-fil-A is a neat example of how Christian principles CAN be a part of successful business operations.

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Their actions will show it, not the way they dress. And you know what? I've been to churches where all the kids dressed "right", and most of them would be trying to get out of the door by the time the altar call began, and if any of them did go to the altar, it was for about 30 seconds. On the other hand, I've been to churches where kids dressed wrong (guys had hair that went to their shoulders, wore t-shirts and blue jeans, girls wore pants, etc.), and I'd hear those kids asking the preacher to keep preaching when he said he was about to wrap up, and they wouldn't just be at the altar during the altar call. And when the altar call came, they would stay there on their knees and on their faces crying out to God with tears streaming down their faces, and they would still be there long after the preacher had left the building, crying out to Jesus Christ.

But we all know that they aren't really Christians, because they don't dress like our traditions say they should!


If these kids don't ever change, if they don't obey the Bible in regards to their hair and in wearing modest clothing - then they are ultimately just as rebellious as the teens who seek to duck out of church the instant it is over. God's Word addresses clothing, hair length, tattoos, etc. - so to pretend someone is holy while ignoring what the Bible says is dreaming.

P.S. It's not traditions we are debating - but God's Word and the standards contained therein.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Can Only Imagine - perhaps worldly Christians like it because it is mainstream pop rock... I won't listen to it unless I am forced to. God convicted me against secular Rock when I got saved, and Christian Rock 10 years ago. I have no desire or taste (but rather disgust) for that junk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I Can Only Imagine - perhaps worldly Christians like it because it is mainstream pop rock... I won't listen to it unless I am forced to. God convicted me against secular Rock when I got saved' date=' and Christian Rock 10 years ago. I have no desire or taste (but rather disgust) for that junk.[/quote']
I Can Only Imagine is mainstream pop rock???? :saywhat

For reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S70gwFcSK9k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jerry - I can understand and appreciate your convictions. God bless you for that.

I wouldn't jump in here only to stir things up - that is against MY convictions. I just get worried when I feel that folks are condemning efforts of fine Christian people, who have shared a message that has been heard millions of times. I am NOT saying you should like it - we all have our own tastes - but can you find it in your heart to let other people like it?

PS - for those who like Southern Gospel, here is Ivan Parker singing his version of the song. More of you may like it, because he has a traditionally "better" voice, and because it didn't sell 4 million copies or get a bunch of awards.



Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I Can Only Imagine is mainstream pop rock???? :saywhat


I was referring to the type of music - not indicating that the group itself is considered that genre. Somehow so many think that because some group is supposedly Christian that it magically changes the genre. That is the kind of pop rock I listened to before I got saved - it is still pop rock.

I just get worried when I feel that folks are condemning efforts of fine Christian people, who have shared a message that has been heard millions of times. I am NOT saying you should like it - we all have our own tastes - but can you find it in your heart to let other people like it?


I am condemning the genres of rock and country - regardless of whether it is "Christian" or not. My rejection is not based on personal tastes - I loved rock music in all its forms - it is based on firm conviction and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Now, I have trained myself to like more sacred music (whether old or new).

What I find funny is so many Christians defend rocky worship and praise music. Perhaps it is simply the music they are getting caught up in (and yes, I have seen maaany examples of that).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I didn't know where the song came from, but I heard that song sang in a conservative church not all that long ago. It was the congregation singing the song. I don't recall if they were singing to piano accompaniment or an accoustic guitar.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I was referring to the type of music - not indicating that the group itself is considered that genre. Somehow so many think that because some group is supposedly Christian that it magically changes the genre. That is the kind of pop rock I listened to before I got saved - it is still pop rock.



I am condemning the genres of rock and country - regardless of whether it is "Christian" or not. My rejection is not based on personal tastes - I loved rock music in all its forms - it is based on firm conviction and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Now, I have trained myself to like more sacred music (whether old or new).

What I find funny is so many Christians defend rocky worship and praise music. Perhaps it is simply the music they are getting caught up in (and yes, I have seen maaany examples of that).

But you said "mainstream" and I don't see anything mainstream about their music. I don't know that there needs to be a genre change, what's in a name, after all?

I think you ought to stick to your convictions if that's how the Holy Spirit has led. However, that music may not be wrong for everyone and the Bible doesn't say anything specifically against it. People defend their music for the same reason you would defend using a computer if someone came up and told you that you're sinning if you use it. If that music is wrong for you, then you shouldn't listen to it. If others can partake without sinning, they can feel free to do so. Music of itself does not violate a Scriptural command so it only becomes wrong if it causes you to violate a Scriptural command, which for many people, it doesn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If the lyrics were sound, but the genre wrong - then someone else sang it with different lyrics, then it would not have the same problems. I wouldn't necessarily say I would approve of it then, but at least the style of music would no longer be an issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="Jerry"]

I am condemning the genres of rock and country - regardless of whether it is "Christian" or not. My rejection is not based on personal tastes - I loved rock music in all its forms - it is based on firm conviction and the leading of the Holy Spirit. Now, I have trained myself to like more sacred music (whether old or new).

What I find funny is so many Christians defend [i]rocky [/i]worship and praise music. Perhaps it is simply the music they are getting caught up in (and yes, I have seen maaany examples of that).[/quote]

I don't care for "rocky" Christian music either. But I think most of us will have a different definition of where that line starts. Personally, I'd rather err on the side of recognizing that God can work in many ways that we may not be familiar or comfortable with, rather than declaring to the world that GOD CANNOT DO THAT.

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
[quote="bambohs"]Jerry - I can understand and appreciate your convictions. God bless you for that.

I wouldn't jump in here only to stir things up - that is against MY convictions. I just get worried when I feel that folks are condemning efforts of fine Christian people, who have shared a message that has been heard millions of times. I am NOT saying you should like it - we all have our own tastes - but can you find it in your heart to let other people like it?

PS - for those who like Southern Gospel, here is Ivan Parker singing his version of the song. More of you may like it, because he has a traditionally "better" voice, and because it didn't sell 4 million copies or get a bunch of awards.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvevl81Pks[/url]

Gary[/quote]

Hi bambohs! You mentioned that Ivan Parker sings his version of the song in Southern Gospel? For some reason, my computer won't pull up the you tube link? Would you mind starting a thread...with some Southern Gospel music?

I am not "trying" to derail this thread...but, my oldest brother (he is unsaved) has commented to me that...my sister has given him CCM...and CRM, and he doesn't care for it at all. He says he can't understand the words they are saying. I find this very interesting b/c he "seems" to have an idea about what this music should sound like? Hmmm? I surely didn't...unless, he is closer to the point of salvation than I was? Only the Lord knows? :puzzled:

I find this interesting...b/c he came over for a visit today...and, is lying down for a nap, now. He asked what I was doing...I told him about this discussion, and he put in his :2cents I just thought I would share this. It is interesting. Yours in Christ!

candlelight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="bambohs"]I don't care for "rocky" Christian music either. But I think most of us will have a different definition of where that line starts. [/quote]

Rock is rock - there should be no debate on the style of the music. To the world rock is rock - but somehow Christians can't see that?! :-S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote="candlelight"]

Hi bambohs! You mentioned that Ivan Parker sings his version of the song in Southern Gospel? For some reason, my computer won't pull up the you tube link? Would you mind starting a thread...with some Southern Gospel music?

I am not "trying" to derail this thread...but, my oldest brother (he is unsaved) has commented to me that...my sister has given him CCM...and CRM, and he doesn't care for it at all. He says he can't understand the words they are saying. I find this very interesting b/c he "seems" to have an idea about what this music should sound like? Hmmm? I surely didn't...unless, he is closer to the point of salvation than I was? Only the Lord knows? :puzzled:

I find this interesting...b/c he came over for a visit today...and, is lying down for a nap, now. He asked what I was doing...I told him about this discussion, and he put in his :2cents I just thought I would share this. It is interesting. Yours in Christ!

candlelight[/quote]
Don't worry about derailing the topic - that happened long ago! Sorry if the link isn't working for you. Another way is to go to youtube.com and search for "Ivan Parker" and that song should be one of the top choices. Southern Gospel is my favorite music and your brother may enjoy that better. The vocals are clearer and - most of the time - there is a strong message. I don't mind starting a thread about SG music, but I am VERY averse to stepping on toes and I know there are some here that don't care for it.

Gary

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
[quote="Jerry"]I Can Only Imagine - perhaps worldly Christians like it because it is mainstream pop rock... I won't listen to it unless I am forced to. God convicted me against secular Rock when I got saved, and Christian Rock 10 years ago. I have no desire or taste (but rather disgust) for that junk.[/quote]
That's such a good example. I also want to arrive at that point where I no longer can tolerate secular dance or similar music. It's such a waste of time and I want to get rid of all secular genres, still I'm aware of the fact that it's going to be difficult at the beginning. I keep thinking about this band, I don't listen to their music, but I'm everyday on their forum talking about them so I'm involved in a very indirect way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
You think those 4 million cd's have gone to bible believing Christians?


No. God forbid that a non-Christian hear them. Everything that we do in life is to reach the lost, so that Christ might be glorified.

Or have they influenced the lost for good? No...


You would have no way of knowing this. The same question can be asked of any Christian's life. How much have I really affected the lost, in general? I may never know until I reach Heaven. While we're on music, there is a poignant song that talks specifically about this situation. It's called "Faces" by one of my favorite group of singers ever: Greater Vision.

I am not skilled to understand who and what God can use. I do realize that no matter how many I reach - it will never be enough. I won't stoop to judge whether or not someone else is "doing their maximum", when my own flaws are so evident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

Don't worry about derailing the topic - that happened long ago! Sorry if the link isn't working for you. Another way is to go to youtube.com and search for "Ivan Parker" and that song should be one of the top choices. Southern Gospel is my favorite music and your brother may enjoy that better. The vocals are clearer and - most of the time - there is a strong message. I don't mind starting a thread about SG music, but I am VERY averse to stepping on toes and I know there are some here that don't care for it.

Gary


Thanks, Gary...if I may call you that? I will do a search on Ivan Parker...thank you! The reason that I am asking... is b/c my brother loved Johnny Cash. Actually, my dad loved Cash. They have a video out now on the Gospel music of Johnny Cash. We are a musical family...and, I think...(although, I could be wrong)...that this would appeal to his heart. He says he "always" listens to the "message" in the song. We grew up in a "folk" music family...so, I think that is why he might love Southern Gospel. We don't get SG up north. :smile

I will do a search on Southern Gospel, though, and find some songs for him. He loves the music at my church (he has gone once to church)...they are hymns, and the choir and soloists and duets "spice" up good Godly music with the piano, flute, clarinet, harp, chello, guitar(not electric) :lol And, no drums, bongos or instruments that go :bonk: :lol We have lots of talent in my church...I am not kidding, and these folks take hymns and bring out the beauty, passion, and glory, of Jesus Christ when they sing and play the music. I have never been in a church with that much talent! It is very Heavenly...and, I am not being biased. Our song-leader (Assistant Pastor) and, choir director...either our AP, or Missionary Pastor's wife...inspire and bring the congregation alive through song...and, it is themed with the message that the pastor preaches that morning or evening. It is very uplifting to say the least...and, I am not that great with music. I love it...but, it is not my talent. Thanks so much...and, many blessings to you...Bambohs. :wave:

candlelight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
[quote]You would have no way of knowing this. The same question can be asked of any Christian's life. How much have I really affected the lost, in general? [/quote]

If those 4 million cd's where touching the lost for good we would be hearing about it and seeing the postive effect. That is far to large a number to SELL to the lost and pretend it did them any good. The world doesn't mind hearing about Jesus, they don't even mind "believing" in Jesus, as long as this "Jesus" they "believe" in allows them to live as they like requires nothing of them. Actually they rather like that, it gives them a "religion" and makes them feel better about themselves. However it doesn't do them a bit of good. The Lord says to them:

"[color=#0000FF]Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"[/color]

I work with a number of people like that, they listen to secular rock, "christian" rock, secular country, modern "christian" country(by many of the same "artists" in the secular). They cuss and swear, talk filthy in general, and yet when you talk to them about salvation they say "I am "saved", I believe that, isn't Christ wonderful, he has done so much for me, I have a "relationship" with Christ..." etc. :bang: Those people are on their way to hell; they have believed a lie... The sad part is they think they are ok. They will listen when you share the bible but it goes in one ear and out the other... There is almost nothing you can do to help them. That is the "fruit" of "christian" rock in the world. Just another tool of the devil to blind the eyes of the lost and make them two fold more a child of hell...

At least the modern day publicans know they are lost, they know their music is of the devil, they know they are in sin, so there can be hope for them, but the fruit of Christian rock and all that goes with it amounts to giving the world an "inoculation" against Christ; it makes it that much harder for God to save them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
[quote="Seth Doty"][quote]You would have no way of knowing this. The same question can be asked of any Christian's life. How much have I really affected the lost, in general? [/quote]

If those 4 million cd's where touching the lost for good we would be hearing about it and seeing the postive effect. That is far to large a number to SELL to the lost and pretend it did them any good. The world doesn't mind hearing about Jesus, they don't even mind "believing" in Jesus, as long as this "Jesus" they "believe" in allows them to live as they like requires nothing of them. Actually they rather like that, it gives them a "religion" and makes them feel better about themselves. However it doesn't do them a bit of good. The Lord says to them:

"[color=#0000FF]Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"[/color]

I work with a number of people like that, they listen to secular rock, "christian" rock, secular country, modern "christian" country(by many of the same "artists" in the secular). They cuss and swear, talk filthy in general, and yet when you talk to them about salvation they say "I am "saved", I believe that, isn't Christ wonderful, he has done so much for me, I have a "relationship" with Christ..." etc. :bang: Those people are on their way to hell; they have believed a lie... The sad part is they think they are ok. They will listen when you share the bible but it goes in one ear and out the other... There is almost nothing you can do to help them. That is the "fruit" of "christian" rock in the world. Just another tool of the devil to blind the eyes of the lost and make them two fold more a child of hell...

At least the modern day publicans know they are lost, they know their music is of the devil, they know they are in sin, so there can be hope for them, but the fruit of Christian rock and all that goes with it amounts to giving the world an "inoculation" against Christ; it makes it that much harder for God to save them.[/quote]

[color=#0000FF]Galations 5: 22-26...But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. KJV.[/color]

I guess these scriptures would apply to the music that Christians listen to, as well? :smile

candlelight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...