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What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

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There are African Christians who stay away from the drums and public dancing. In the United Stated, in the 18th and 19th centuries, drums were forbidden (ie. against the law) in black congregations in every state except for New Orleans. Those slaves coming out of Africa that got saved wanted nothing to do with drums in their worship of the true God - as they could see two hundred years ago what was wrong with them, as they came out of that. But today Christendom does whatever it wants and justifies it at the same time. Its okay as long as its "Christian" - it doesn't matter what it is, I can put a Christian label on it. How can you say my Christian rock and roll/country is wrong - it is "Christian" after all!!

Africans brought here were discouraged from using drums because that was their method of long distance communication. Holding an entire people group imprisoned as slaves brings the real possibility of revolt. Long distance communication would be a valuable tool, back then, in organizing such a revolt. So drums were outlawed. Jim Crow states kept the laws because the people making the laws were generally too stupid to understand why after the threat no longer existed.

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So if there is an ungodly music style, what makes it inherently wrong? This is an honest question. We can make the claim that the rock beat is wrong, but why is it wrong? Just because it's there? For something to be wrong, it must violate a command or cause you to violate a command. If it causes you to violate a command, then it could be wrong for you but not for someone else to whom it doesn't cause them to fall.

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And through some magical portal, you alone have the definitive sound of what is holy to God? The reason Moses knew that it was not the sound of holy music to God is because it was different than what they had sang before. Now, unless you either posses a time machine or highly psychic skills, there is no way that you would know what either of those different music types sounded like, would you? I usually ask rhetorical questions - it's the teacher in me.


I wouldn't say "magic" or "psychic" or "me alone", however, it is written:

"John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

"Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God."

"1 Corinthians 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God."



This is the filter all music must pass through before it can be possibly considered Godly.

"Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Is the music fleshly?

"Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

"1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

Does the music in any way contain the spirit of the world?

"Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

Would the music fit this?

"Glatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

What is most often evident in the lives of those who enjoy or promote the music "style". Corruption or life?

"Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

"Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

Does the song and music tend to teach, admonish? Does it show grace?


"Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Hardly what would first come to the mind of anyone, even those who like it, when thinking of the music style of rap, rock, etc. :wink

Now I know you are unlikely to hear this, but the Holy Spirit will not teach one person something is wrong and another person that it is ok. Period. However, it is truly written:

"1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Just one last example from my personal life in this case. :Green

I occasionally can play CD's in my work place depending on the area I am currently working in and when I have done so in the past various lost coworkers have from time to time commented on my "peaceful", "holy", "church music", even though the CD's didn't even have words... This is apposed to the violent rap and rock that is usually blaring... If the lost can tell Godly Christian music without even hearing words why do professing Christians deny the music has any importance?

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So if there is an ungodly music style' date=' what makes it inherently wrong? This is an honest question. We can make the claim that the rock beat is wrong, but why is it wrong? Just because it's there? For something to be wrong, it must violate a command or cause you to violate a command. If it causes you to violate a command, then it could be wrong for you but not for someone else to whom it doesn't cause them to fall.[/quote']

Hi Kevin! :smile I am merely speaking for myself with Rock music. I never cared for Rap :lol ...but, in my teens, I listened to Heavy Metal music. I prefer Gospel music and Contemporary Christian (if it is soothing to my soul). Otherwise...I get off tract. This is just my opinion on the matter. Like I said, Country, Bluegrass, and even Jazz, and Blues don't affect me. It is just the music that brings me back to the old "party days" that I avoid. JMHO, on my styles. I don't speak for anyone, but myself here. :thumb If I listen to Gospel or Contemporary Christian (soul soothing) I feel like my soul is uplifted to the umph degree.

candlelight

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Thanks Seth, for your in-depth answer to my question. I too use the exact same criteria to discern which music is right or wrong music for me to enjoy. No one, especially a musician, would say that the musical style has no importance. In fact, many musicians would say quite the opposite, and I would tend to agree. I suppose my only question to any who seem 100% sure on which music is and is not appropriate is this: The music that you consider now, at this point in time, to be acceptable was, at some other point in time, considered to be contemporary and many times improper. Independent Baptist churches play music in church that non-Christians wouldn't even dance to in the past. What made that style suddenly acceptable? Is relevance to culture the issue, or is it truly what God finds acceptable? Does good Christian musical style stay the same or does it change with culture? Any thinking person (which I know you to be) will have to acquiesce to the obvious fact that it does, indeed, change. Is it therefore wrong for changing? Will the hymns twenty years from now sound like what you have in church today, or will it sound like what you dislike in church today? I was most likely unclear before - but this is why this argument goes on and on and on...and on...and on....

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How can you take rhythms that people use in occult practices and try and worship God with them? Adding "Christian" sounding words do not nullify what the purpose of the rhythm was originally used for.......you are just mixing two things that cannot be combined. (light with darkness)


The same way that you take a language that that was used for evil purposes and use it to praise God. Here is an example. In Arabic the word for God is Allah, so Christians who speak Arabic use "Allah." Is that wrong, or should they learn another language or word? Plus, your biggest problem is your assumption that those rythems are somehow inheriantly evil. Something that is never mentioned in the Bible. And again, Satan could not be behind Christian Rock, because he would be opposing himself, which Jesus said that he could not do.

You are automatically assuming that God gave us a perfect, godly form of music for Satan to then corrupt.

Yes I am.

I have never seen a record of that, have you?

"Exodus 32:17-18 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp. And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear."

That "noise" of singing here means a song that sounds like yelling. Now what kind of singing sounds like war and yelling? Guess. I will give you a hint, it is not Godly music.

You are basing your definition of "godly" on your own musical preferences. This is why this argument has gone on for years, and will continue to do so.

This "argument" goes on only because:

"Jeremiah 8:7 Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the LORD."


And this perfect Godly form of music just happened to be the one that was developed in Europe during between the fall of Rome and the 1950's? What did people do before that style came along?

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.

I will also add that the music in Heaven is not Rock-N-Roll, Rap, Heavy Metal...or anything that is deemed un-Godly. Heaven is filled with good, Godly music...one can only imagine how beautiful it really is.


How do you know that? Have you been there? Maybe God sent you a personal CD?

This is the filter all music must pass through before it can be possibly considered Godly.

"Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Is the music fleshly?

"Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:"

"1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."

Does the music in any way contain the spirit of the world?

"Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"

Would the music fit this?

"Glatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

What is most often evident in the lives of those who enjoy or promote the music "style". Corruption or life?

"Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

"Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

Does the song and music tend to teach, admonish? Does it show grace?


"Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Hardly what would first come to the mind of anyone, even those who like it, when thinking of the music style of rap, rock, etc.

Now I know you are unlikely to hear this, but the Holy Spirit will not teach one person something is wrong and another person that it is ok. Period. However, it is truly written:


I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.

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Thanks Dwayner for the article. I have read about half of it so far.

Did you get a chance to finish? I read it over the weekend, and was curious about what you thought.

My favorite quote from the article:
So it is, I am convinced, with every cult. The cult is either born out of a reaction to a contemporary culture or out of a desire to transplant another culture into the current culture of that day. In order to do so, the gospel is distorted and the convert?s conformity to the new culture becomes the measure of his ?faith.? To the extent that the Christian church loses sight of the power of the gospel to save and to sanctify a man or woman in any culture, it will pervert the gospel and will seek to establish another culture. Conformity to this lifestyle becomes the measure of one?s righteousness.


I must admit that in times past I have been rather cultish in this instance. We need to be careful.

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I suppose my only question to any who seem 100% sure on which music is and is not appropriate is this: The music that you consider now, at this point in time, to be acceptable was, at some other point in time, considered to be contemporary and many times improper. Independent Baptist churches play music in church that non-Christians wouldn't even dance to in the past. What made that style suddenly acceptable? Is relevance to culture the issue, or is it truly what God finds acceptable? Does good Christian musical style stay the same or does it change with culture?


Give me some proof of that. I will assume we are speaking of songs sung in conservative IFB churches, because if not, I have heard plenty of ungodly, worldy, music at churches that still had the IFB label... I don't agree with them either...

I have hymnals from the 1800's that have songs from the 17 and 18 hundreds and the music would fit just fine in a conservative IFB church. Some of the songs we still sing today. The strangest thing about the old hymnals isn't the music, it is the fact that they don't number the songs and there is no index. How they would go about finding a particular song I have no idea.

As far as whether good Christian music changes with the culture, no it doesn't. That does not mean that there is only one style of music that is Christian, but since Godly Christian music is not any more part of the world than a Christian should be, the music isn't going to be a reflection of what is popular in the world. As it is written:

"2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.


I hope you are not serious, but since I think you are...

First of all, God tells Moses what is going on and tells Moses to leave him alone to destroy them. Moses prays for them and God does not destroy them. Moses then goes down the mount to deal with the problem. He already knew about the idol, he knew what was going on. Secondly a lets look at the verse where Moses loses his temper.

"Exodus 32:19 And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount."

The Lord had already told Moses what was going on, that is why he knew it was singing not "a noise of war", but when he actually got close enough to see everything else too he lost his temper. You can see from this verse he wasn't to fond of the dancing, it wasn't "just" the calf, it was the whole situation, the calf was part of the problem but not all. I do hope you do not really feel that a type of violent(which alone would make it ungodly)"music", so different from Godly music Joshua thought it was war, and sung by wicked people while naked and worshiping an idol, was "ok" in and of itself. If you do, nothing anyone could say could change your mind, and I certainly won't attempt it.



I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.


It certainly can exclude certain "styles" of music.

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The same way that you take a language that that was used for evil purposes and use it to praise God. Here is an example. In Arabic the word for God is Allah, so Christians who speak Arabic use "Allah." Is that wrong, or should they learn another language or word? Plus, your biggest problem is your assumption that those rythems are somehow inheriantly evil. Something that is never mentioned in the Bible. And again, Satan could not be behind Christian Rock, because he would be opposing himself, which Jesus said that he could not do.



And this perfect Godly form of music just happened to be the one that was developed in Europe during between the fall of Rome and the 1950's? What did people do before that style came along?

Look at the Exodus passage again. Moses does not get angry until he sees the idol, he corrects Joshua and tells him that it is not the sound of war, but singing. What they were doing was wrong, not the music.



How do you know that? Have you been there? Maybe God sent you a personal CD?



I use the same criteria Seth. The difference is that I judge music on a song by song basis. The criteria that you listed can not cover a style of music.


Pep_3000...If you are truly being sincere about the music in Heaven, I will give you a few passages from scripture. Revelation 14:2-3...And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from earth. KJV. "Messages of the Angels".

Also...II Chronicles 5:12-13...Also the Levites which were the singers, all of them of Asaph, of Heman, of Jeduthun, with their sons and their brethren, being arrayed in white linen, having cymbals and psalteries, and harps, stood at the east end of the altar, and with them an hundred and twenty priests sounding with trumpets:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; KJV. "The Ark Placed in the Temple".

As far as ever being to Heaven...I hope, believe, and imagine. Faith is my source...and the Bible is my passport. Yes, I suppose you could say that God did send me a personal CD. :thumb The mystery of Heaven...and, the beautiful music there, lies deep within my heart, mind, and soul. God has given me His Grace and I accepted it by Faith in His only son, Jesus Christ.


candlelight

P.S. ~ Scroll through the KJV Bible and you will find many hidden mysteries of Heaven, including beautiful music.

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II cannot help but close my eyes and imagine somebody singing a song like "We Fall Down" or "Awesome God." They cry as they focus on the goodness and the mercy of a God who would send His Son to die for them despite their shortcomings and sinful lifestyle. They meditate on how God rescued them from their sin and washed them clean. They are smiling, with tears flowing... Then I imagine walking up to them and saying "How can you call yourself a legit Christian, worshiping to this kind of music?"

It's at that point, I feel like I've missed the point. If a person loves God, and worships Him out of love for Him with his or her whole heart; do you really think God is going to frown upon them because the music is contemporary or specific instruments are used?

I've been on both sides of this debate in my walk. I've leaned one way, then leaned the other. Paul once spoke about eating food sacrificed to Idols, and claimed that a Christian can eat food sacrificed to Idols receiving it with thanksgiving from God provided they are solid enough in their faith to do so. Without conviction, even in the name of Jesus Christ Himself, I will go as far as to say that you; as a Christian, if you are solid in your faith can worship God with thanksgiving while singing and enjoying Contemporary Christian Music.

As for Christian Rock, that's touchy. The image and character often portrayed and promoted by Christian Rock artists is usually anything but Holy and Godly. I've considered applying the same principle I use with Contemporary to Christian Rock, but I'm not quite there yet. I don't want to be judgmental, but when I see a crowd of people slamming into each other and screaming at the top of their lungs I don't see God being worshiped; I see people indulging in the flesh.

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II cannot help but close my eyes and imagine somebody singing a song like "We Fall Down" or "Awesome God." They cry as they focus on the goodness and the mercy of a God who would send His Son to die for them despite their shortcomings and sinful lifestyle. They meditate on how God rescued them from their sin and washed them clean. They are smiling' date=' with tears flowing... Then I imagine walking up to them and saying "How can you call yourself a legit Christian, worshiping to this kind of music?"[/quote']

No one is questioning someone's Christianity based on the music they listen to. Perhaps question their separation and walk with the Lord.

But I can just see God going, "I'm glad you are worshipping me - but why are you worshipping me based on songs written by those who were religious - who don't know me?" Rich Mullins was joining the Catholic church when he died - that tells me he believed in a works-based salvation - no matter how good his songs may sound.



The issue has never been whether a song is new (ie. contemporary) or old - but whether it is Contemporary Christian Music (CCM) - which is worldly rock (in all its forms) or country music.



Is God pleased with that though? Sounds like lighting strange fire or perhaps reaching out and touching the ark to steady it - contrary to what God has commanded. Those two Biblical examples show that we can't just approach God any old way. He wants His children to be separated in our lives - I believe that also means being separated in our musical choices.

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Jerry...I just had a thought. The music in Heaven is absolutely VERY Godly! Otherwise, why would anyone want to go to Heaven if we would listen to the "same old same old" that is on earth? Goodness, NO! This is a mute point for me, I guess. I certainly don't want to hear rock-n-roll Christianty in Heaven. Besides...the Bible doesn't talk about such music, anywhere. JMHO is all. :thumb

candlelight

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I have a lot of respect for your thoughts on the subject, Kenny. It sounds rather similar to my own experience and thoughts on it. I've really truly come to believe that where our heart is is the most important thing. We can pray a prayer and not get saved if our heart isn't in it. We can use contemporary or conservative Christian music to worship God and be singing empty words if our heart isn't in a state of worship before God. That's something I've come to respect of those who use more contemporary means of worship, they seem to truly mean what they are saying and truly have a worshipful heart before God. On the other hand, it seems that many people who use conservative music will simply go through the motions and sing the hymns with little feeling behind it. Not always, but many times, it seems.

There are some really great CCM songs out there that can really bring you into a heart of worship. To sing "I Can Only Imagine" or "Who Am I" and really think about what your singing is amazing. I've grown up in churches where things were done by the book and the routine was followed week after week and I never really saw any passion amongst churchmembers. It was something I wanted to see amongst fellow Christians, I wanted to be able to see other people expressing the passion that I felt and to be able to express that with them. To tell the truth, when I came here, I was a little taken back by the contrast to what I was used to and it unnerved me a little. I wasn't used to people calling on God verbally or crying to a song that really spoke to their heart or sharing your heart and praying for one another in small groups. I think it is so much closer to what we really ought to be doing in the Body of Christ, though. Sure, there are things here that I disagree with or believe they are in error on. However, I believe this is what true Christianity is, despite what we might disagree on, encouraging and loving and praying for one another. I know that the churchmembers here would be there to help me if I ever needed it and I've never had that assurance from local fellow Christians.

I think it is difficult to take a stance of separation in music, though. Biblically, I mean. I don't agree with separation to the degree that many others believe in, I think it is a separation from things that are ungodly, things that are of Satan and prohibited in Scripture. However, the Bible never really speaks about musical styles or what is right or wrong in music. I can't figure out what makes that music wrong, logically or Biblically.

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I won't sing Rock - but I will sing about my Rock.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Psalms 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.

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Hi Kevin. I enjoyed reading your post. I do agree with what you said about "singing empty words if our heart isn't in a state of worship before God". :amen::goodpost: My pastor always encourages and challenges us to prepare our heart for worship and praise. The music in my church is themed...therefore, it flows along with my pastor's message...and, is very heart-provoking. I always feel the Holy Spirit at work in my church through music and His word being preached.

candlelight

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I won't sing Rock - but I will sing about my Rock.

Isaiah 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

Psalms 18:1-3 I will love thee, O LORD, my strength. The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower. I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised: so shall I be saved from mine enemies.


:goodpost: Thanks, Jerry! The Psalm reminds me of my 17 year old son. It is his life verse. What an encouragement tonight! :amen: A testimony of Our Lord working through people by the power of His Holy Spirit.

candlelight

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II cannot help but close my eyes and imagine somebody singing a song like "We Fall Down" or "Awesome God." They cry as they focus on the goodness and the mercy of a God who would send His Son to die for them despite their shortcomings and sinful lifestyle. They meditate on how God rescued them from their sin and washed them clean. They are smiling, with tears flowing... Then I imagine walking up to them and saying "How can you call yourself a legit Christian, worshiping to this kind of music?"

It's at that point, I feel like I've missed the point. If a person loves God, and worships Him out of love for Him with his or her whole heart; do you really think God is going to frown upon them because the music is contemporary or specific instruments are used?

I've been on both sides of this debate in my walk. I've leaned one way, then leaned the other. Paul once spoke about eating food sacrificed to Idols, and claimed that a Christian can eat food sacrificed to Idols receiving it with thanksgiving from God provided they are solid enough in their faith to do so. Without conviction, even in the name of Jesus Christ Himself, I will go as far as to say that you; as a Christian, if you are solid in your faith can worship God with thanksgiving while singing and enjoying Contemporary Christian Music.

As for Christian Rock, that's touchy. The image and character often portrayed and promoted by Christian Rock artists is usually anything but Holy and Godly. I've considered applying the same principle I use with Contemporary to Christian Rock, but I'm not quite there yet. I don't want to be judgmental, but when I see a crowd of people slamming into each other and screaming at the top of their lungs I don't see God being worshiped; I see people indulging in the flesh.


Post of the week. :smile While many would reject some of these songs due to their association, or even the association of their writers, we must remember that many of the "sacred" hymns we use in church today were received the same way in their "baby years". It's not like Amazing Grace jumped right into the pew hymnal after being written by a slave trader - there was plenty of debate there. Yet, somewhere along the line, a person with a broader scope of worship looked at their song and said, "God can use anyone at anytime - I will not limit Him." Crown Him with Many Crowns was written by a devout Catholic and yet is sung in nearly every Baptist church today. In the end all that matters is the glory of Christ, may He be magnified through our praise...

We fall down
We lay our crowns
At the feet of Jesus
The greatness of
Your Mercy and love
At the feet of Jesus
And we cry holy, holy, holy
And we cry holy, holy, holy
And we cry holy, holy, holy
Is the Lamb

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For the 5 years after I joined a local IFB Church, I simply assumed they were right in their stance on CCM and Christian rock. I was comfortable with the idea that CCM and Christian Rock was wrong, because I had no interest in it, and I had never been exposed to it. During this time, I continued listening to secular pop/rock songs that I thought had good messages, or at least, weren't negative (I never got into songs that were about sex, used profanity, etc.)

I never really understood the hymns, and in church, I was always taught that I was just supposed to sing them. The concept of using them to worship God was never explained (and I felt like many people in the congregations I grew up in were the same way). I would simply mouth the words because--you're supposed to sing hymns in church, right? So, while I was still listening to secular music, at least I knew that Christian Rock and CCM were Satan's master tools to lure Christians over to the dark side! I was at a point where if I heard a CCM or CR song, I would immediately close up and refuse to pay attention to the words. The thing is, I didn't even need to hear the words to a CCM or CR song to know it was what it was--There was always something about the sound that tipped me off that it was a CCM or CR song, even if I never heard a single word.

But then it happened a year ago that I met the people who changed my life--a local Christian band. Someone invited me to go to a Youth Rally at a local non-denominational church (which I had been weary of doing so because I had chosen to limit myself to only IFB churches), but I acquiesced and went. They started off by playing a heavier Christian rock song (which made me uncomfortable, because I had been taught about how wrong this was), but I chose to really listen to the words (which I had never done before). Halfway through the music, the songs became slower songs of praise and worship. They began playing a song by Shane & Shane called "Yearn". The words were:

Lord, I want to yearn for You
I want to burn with passion
Over You, and only You
Lord, I want to yearn

This song began to minister to my heart, and before I knew it, I was singing these very words to God myself, because I wanted to yearn for Him, and I wanted to burn with passion for Him. I had always been taught how to do the right things, dress the right way, and "how to act in church", but passion was something I had never heard discussed, and never even really thought of. I had almost been taught that serving God meant "playing church".

The next song truly spoke to me, and with it I began speaking to God. When they started singing this song, something inside of me broke, and I haven't been the same since. It's called "Rescue" by The Desperation Band. These are the words:

You are the source of the life
I can?t be left behind
No one else will do
I will take hold of You

I need You Jesus
To come to my rescue
Where else can I go
There?s no other name by
Which I am saved
Capture me with grace
I will follow You

This world has nothing for me
I will follow You
This world has nothing for me
I will follow You

When the band sang this song, they repeated the chorus several times. At the end, they began singing the words "This world has nothing for me...I will follow You", and they must have sang these same words over at least 10 times. I had always heard that we were not to be "worldly", but the idea that "This world has nothing for me" had never hit me. I began singing these words to the Lord over and over. The simplicity and the power of the declaration were awesome beyond description. Knowing that I could follow Him in reckless abandon, without worrying about the opinions of man was absolute bliss.

After the song service, the lead singer began to preach, and he said many things that absolutely ministered to my heart as well. Him and the members of the band are now the closest people to me outside of my immediate family, and God has truly used them in my life in a way I never would have imagined.

That's the night that truly began to change my life. That's the night when I kissed my secular music goodbye (I can no longer stomach it, and I see so much wrong with things that I once thought had "good messages"). That's the night I truly began to understand passion for God as opposed to religious zeal. Since then I have surrendered myself to eventually being a full time minister, and material things that used to seem so important to me no longer matter.

I began to open myself up to receiving from other forms of Christian music, and I have since discovered that there are many truly passionate Christian artists--from Christian pop, to Christian Rock, and yes--Christian hip-hop. It's not about style. It took me a while to open up to Christian hip-hop, but God eventually convicted me that just because I don't like the style, doesn't make it wrong. Why? Because there are people who it ministers to who do like that style. There are people who, instead of having their heads filled with the filth and sexuality that most hip-hop music is loaded with, are hearing about Jesus through a hip-hop beat.

God convicted me to stop selfishly restricting Christian hip-hop just because it wasn't my taste (and it still isn't). But you know what? For those urban kids who grew up hearing nothing but vile hip-hop music, it's great. They are never going to receive from hymns, and like it or not, music has a great ability to minister to people, whether for good or for bad. So why not be as wise as serpents yet harmless as doves? Why not give them the gospel through the medium they like?

Sometimes, we have to let go of our tastes, our traditions, our pride, and our style so that we may reach a lost and hurting world. Paul himself did that very thing:

"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak I became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you." -1 Corinthians 9:19-23

If God takes things that were meant for evil and uses them for good, shouldn't we do the same? We are to be in the world, not of the world.

As for the argument that CCM, CR, and P&W music is too me focused, that can be true in some cases, but certainly not all. Revelation Song by Kari Job, for example, is all about God. Besides, it's not always terrible for a song to have the words "Me" and "I" in it. After all, if you look at the Psalms, David uses those words constantly. But even so, there's tons of hymns that do the same. In fact, many of the songs we sang in the churches I grew up in make me uncomfortable now, because I've realized that very few of the hymns I grew up singing were singing TO God. They were either singing about God OR they were singing about poor, pitiful me. The message of about 25% of the songs we grew up singing was "I hate my life here. I want to die. I want to get to heaven. Now." --and that's a totally unbiblical concept, because Jesus Himself prayed that we, being not of this world, would not be taken out of this world, but kept from the evil one. God wants us to be on this earth to spread the gospel of the Kingdom.

And one way to do that is by ministering to people through music.

"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."

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For the 5 years after I joined a local IFB Church, I simply assumed they were right in their stance on CCM and Christian rock. I was comfortable with the idea that CCM and Christian Rock was wrong, because I had no interest in it, and I had never been exposed to it. During this time, I continued listening to secular pop/rock songs that I thought had good messages, or at least, weren't negative (I never got into songs that were about sex, used profanity, etc.)

I never really understood the hymns, and in church, I was always taught that I was just supposed to sing them. The concept of using them to worship God was never explained (and I felt like many people in the congregations I grew up in were the same way). I would simply mouth the words because--you're supposed to sing hymns in church, right? So, while I was still listening to secular music, at least I knew that Christian Rock and CCM were Satan's master tools to lure Christians over to the dark side! I was at a point where if I heard a CCM or CR song, I would immediately close up and refuse to pay attention to the words. The thing is, I didn't even need to hear the words to a CCM or CR song to know it was what it was--There was always something about the sound that tipped me off that it was a CCM or CR song, even if I never heard a single word.

But then it happened a year ago that I met the people who changed my life--a local Christian band. Someone invited me to go to a Youth Rally at a local non-denominational church (which I had been weary of doing so because I had chosen to limit myself to only IFB churches), but I acquiesced and went. They started off by playing a heavier Christian rock song (which made me uncomfortable, because I had been taught about how wrong this was), but I chose to really listen to the words (which I had never done before). Halfway through the music, the songs became slower songs of praise and worship. They began playing a song by Shane & Shane called "Yearn". The words were:

Lord, I want to yearn for You
I want to burn with passion
Over You, and only You
Lord, I want to yearn

This song began to minister to my heart, and before I knew it, I was singing these very words to God myself, because I wanted to yearn for Him, and I wanted to burn with passion for Him. I had always been taught how to do the right things, dress the right way, and "how to act in church", but passion was something I had never heard discussed, and never even really thought of. I had almost been taught that serving God meant "playing church".

The next song truly spoke to me, and with it I began speaking to God. When they started singing this song, something inside of me broke, and I haven't been the same since. It's called "Rescue" by The Desperation Band. These are the words:

You are the source of the life
I can?t be left behind
No one else will do
I will take hold of You

I need You Jesus
To come to my rescue
Where else can I go
There?s no other name by
Which I am saved
Capture me with grace
I will follow You

This world has nothing for me
I will follow You
This world has nothing for me
I will follow You

When the band sang this song, they repeated the chorus several times. At the end, they began singing the words "This world has nothing for me...I will follow You", and they must have sang these same words over at least 10 times. I had always heard that we were not to be "worldly", but the idea that "This world has nothing for me" had never hit me. I began singing these words to the Lord over and over. The simplicity and the power of the declaration were awesome beyond description. Knowing that I could follow Him in reckless abandon, without worrying about the opinions of man was absolute bliss.

After the song service, the lead singer began to preach, and he said many things that absolutely ministered to my heart as well. Him and the members of the band are now the closest people to me outside of my immediate family, and God has truly used them in my life in a way I never would have imagined.

That's the night that truly began to change my life. That's the night when I kissed my secular music goodbye (I can no longer stomach it, and I see so much wrong with things that I once thought had "good messages"). That's the night I truly began to understand passion for God as opposed to religious zeal. Since then I have surrendered myself to eventually being a full time minister, and material things that used to seem so important to me no longer matter.

I began to open myself up to receiving from other forms of Christian music, and I have since discovered that there are many truly passionate Christian artists--from Christian pop, to Christian Rock, and yes--Christian hip-hop. It's not about style. It took me a while to open up to Christian hip-hop, but God eventually convicted me that just because I don't like the style, doesn't make it wrong. Why? Because there are people who it ministers to who do like that style. There are people who, instead of having their heads filled with the filth and sexuality that most hip-hop music is loaded with, are hearing about Jesus through a hip-hop beat.

God convicted me to stop selfishly restricting Christian hip-hop just because it wasn't my taste (and it still isn't). But you know what? For those urban kids who grew up hearing nothing but vile hip-hop music, it's great. They are never going to receive from hymns, and like it or not, music has a great ability to minister to people, whether for good or for bad. So why not be as wise as serpents yet harmless as doves? Why not give them the gospel through the medium they like?

Sometimes, we have to let go of our tastes, our traditions, our pride, and our style so that we may reach a lost and hurting world. Paul himself did that very thing:

"For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak I became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you." -1 Corinthians 9:19-23

If God takes things that were meant for evil and uses them for good, shouldn't we do the same? We are to be in the world, not of the world.

As for the argument that CCM, CR, and P&W music is too me focused, that can be true in some cases, but certainly not all. Revelation Song by Kari Job, for example, is all about God. Besides, it's not always terrible for a song to have the words "Me" and "I" in it. After all, if you look at the Psalms, David uses those words constantly. But even so, there's tons of hymns that do the same. In fact, many of the songs we sang in the churches I grew up in make me uncomfortable now, because I've realized that very few of the hymns I grew up singing were singing TO God. They were either singing about God OR they were singing about poor, pitiful me. The message of about 25% of the songs we grew up singing was "I hate my life here. I want to die. I want to get to heaven. Now." --and that's a totally unbiblical concept, because Jesus Himself prayed that we, being not of this world, would not be taken out of this world, but kept from the evil one. God wants us to be on this earth to spread the gospel of the Kingdom.

And one way to do that is by ministering to people through music.

"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you."

This is a goodpost... I want to clarify. Someone will undoubtedly say, the fact that it took you a while to "warm up" to certain things just means the world's influence and sin crept in. Its hogwash. but someone will say it. That is a false dichotomy. The fact is that it could just as likely be that it took a while to actually see the truth being revealed to you and to shed the religiosity. But someone will say it.

Second, I agree with hymns being me-centered, but in any argument you have to concede where its true. Much of modern CCM is fluff. I happen to think there is nothing wrong with Fluff, but if you only ever have fluff, then there is a problem. I wish more modern songs were written like the old hymns. Songs like "In Christ alone" are way too few and far between.

Anyway, good post. You are in the minority here (so am I) so be gentle and patient in your responses as you were here. And... WELCOME!

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This is a goodpost... I want to clarify. Someone will undoubtedly say, the fact that it took you a while to "warm up" to certain things just means the world's influence and sin crept in. Its hogwash. but someone will say it. That is a false dichotomy. The fact is that it could just as likely be that it took a while to actually see the truth being revealed to you and to shed the religiosity. But someone will say it.


Hey, first of all, thanks for taking the time to respond to me and for the welcome! :)

I suppose you are right that someone may try to say that, but it's exactly as you said--It took me a while to shed the ideas that had been hammered into my head. Even though I KNEW that it wasn't true that all CCM and CR was bad, it still took me a while to rip away the mindsets that I had been trained to take on.

If Satan was slowly trying to creep in, I don't know what he's doing, because since I started listening to CCM, CR, etc., (and not that I attribute this to CCM and CR) I am more on fire for God than I've ever been, I have boldness to witness to people that I never had, I'm finally actually allowing God to use me to lead souls to Jesus, and my relationship with God is stronger than ever, wheras before, I was in stagnant religion. Is CCR and CR responsible for that? No, but they can be great to worship with, and I know it helps me to keep pumping my head with positive music throughout the day, and it ALWAYS helps to turn on some Christian music when I'm in a bad mood--In fact, when I get into bad moods, sometimes I feel so convicted by hearing a song about Jesus that I want to shut the blasted stuff off so I can be angry/selfishly whiney in peace. :lol: I don't think any of that would be possible if CCM and CR were instilling worldliness in me, and I can't imagine Satan ever making me feel convicted about sinning.


Second, I agree with hymns being me-centered, but in any argument you have to concede where its true. Much of modern CCM is fluff. I happen to think there is nothing wrong with Fluff, but if you only ever have fluff, then there is a problem. I wish more modern songs were written like the old hymns. Songs like "In Christ alone" are way too few and far between.


Yup, a lot of it is fluff. And that's something I've also had to be careful with--Sometimes I want to look at the fluff and say, "That's for unsaved people who want to think they're Christians." But then I remember that one of my close friends, who was just recently saved, has gone from listening to vile secular rap/hip-hop/rock to listening only to "fluff" on K-Love. And you know what? She's been convicted by some of that stuff, and I see her that a lot of her mindsets and ideas have been transformed just because of the lyrics in some of those songs. So maybe fluff isn't ALWAYS bad.


Anyway, good post. You are in the minority here (so am I) so be gentle and patient in your responses as you were here. And... WELCOME!


Oh, I will. I pray that I never let something like music, Bible versions, etc., cause me to spread more division among the body. There's been too much of that already. Thanks and God bless you! :)

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Hey, first of all, thanks for taking the time to respond to me and for the welcome! :)

I suppose you are right that someone may try to say that, but it's exactly as you said--It took me a while to shed the ideas that had been hammered into my head. Even though I KNEW that it wasn't true that all CCM and CR was bad, it still took me a while to rip away the mindsets that I had been trained to take on.

If Satan was slowly trying to creep in, I don't know what he's doing, because since I started listening to CCM, CR, etc., (and not that I attribute this to CCM and CR) I am more on fire for God than I've ever been, I have boldness to witness to people that I never had, I'm finally actually allowing God to use me to lead souls to Jesus, and my relationship with God is stronger than ever, wheras before, I was in stagnant religion. Is CCR and CR responsible for that? No, but they can be great to worship with, and I know it helps me to keep pumping my head with positive music throughout the day, and it ALWAYS helps to turn on some Christian music when I'm in a bad mood--In fact, when I get into bad moods, sometimes I feel so convicted by hearing a song about Jesus that I want to shut the blasted stuff off so I can be angry/selfishly whiney in peace. :lol: I don't think any of that would be possible if CCM and CR were instilling worldliness in me, and I can't imagine Satan ever making me feel convicted about sinning.



Yup, a lot of it is fluff. And that's something I've also had to be careful with--Sometimes I want to look at the fluff and say, "That's for unsaved people who want to think they're Christians." But then I remember that one of my close friends, who was just recently saved, has gone from listening to vile secular rap/hip-hop/rock to listening only to "fluff" on K-Love. And you know what? She's been convicted by some of that stuff, and I see her that a lot of her mindsets and ideas have been transformed just because of the lyrics in some of those songs. So maybe fluff isn't ALWAYS bad.



Oh, I will. I pray that I never let something like music, Bible versions, etc., cause me to spread more division among the body. There's been too much of that already. Thanks and God bless you! :)


Dear Behold the Lamb...an excellent post! I have known many Christians like you that have grown up in the church...and, felt just like you. It is wonderful that the Lord Jesus gave you the "passion" through other music mediums to become closer to Him and do His Will for your life. This is a Testimony to Jesus Christ. :thumb I also agree with your post about your close friend being convicted through the "fluff" CCM. Whatever brings one closer to a truly intimate relationship with JC is what matters most. :smile I enjoyed reading this post...and, I believe that it is written with a wonderful Christian heart with a passion to serve Our Lord and Saviour. May God bless you! :bible: Also, welcome to OB...I am learning a lot here.

candlelight

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Post of the week. :smile While many would reject some of these songs due to their association, or even the association of their writers, we must remember that many of the "sacred" hymns we use in church today were received the same way in their "baby years". It's not like Amazing Grace jumped right into the pew hymnal after being written by a slave trader - there was plenty of debate there. Yet, somewhere along the line, a person with a broader scope of worship looked at their song and said, "God can use anyone at anytime - I will not limit Him." Crown Him with Many Crowns was written by a devout Catholic and yet is sung in nearly every Baptist church today. In the end all that matters is the glory of Christ, may He be magnified through our praise...

We fall down
We lay our crowns
At the feet of Jesus
The greatness of
Your Mercy and love
At the feet of Jesus
And we cry holy, holy, holy
And we cry holy, holy, holy
And we cry holy, holy, holy
Is the Lamb


Hey Vir...I love the song above ^^^^^"We Fall Down". I love singing the holy, holy, holy part. Also, I just wanted to add that the song "Silent Night" was written by a Catholic priest from St. Nicholas Parish in Europe. He and a teacher were walking in the beautiful snow packed mountains one day when he came up with the lyrics. The priest wanted to have his congregation sing it at Christmas Eve Mass...but, the organ wasn't working properly. He got inspired by God to ask the schoolteacher for help...and, the schoolteacher played "Silent Night" on his guitar in 3 simple cords for the Mass. That is where the song gets it's simplicity from...and, it hasn't been changed since. :wink Did anyone know that?

candlelight

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For the most part I judge a song by its lyrics. There are some styles of music I won't listen to and there are some I don't believe are godly at all so naturally I avoid those too. However, godly lyrics can be put to different music and be a real blessing.

I don't judge a song based upon who happens to sing it or who has sang the song in the past, nor do I judge the song based upon what I know about the performer or authors life.

None of us are perfect and God is known to use the imperfect to yet give us some excellent things whether they be music, writings, sermons, etc.

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Wow, Behold the Lamb, that was an excellent post and sounds similar to how I was raised. It's so often about standards and playing church and there's no passion. I believe real passion is absolutely essential for our walk with Christ and our service to him. The IFB church I attended in America was like what you described. Everyone sang the hymns just to sing them and participate in that part of the service. After all, if you don't sing the hymns, there must be something wrong with you. :frog

Here, however, the Sunday service is contemporary and I actually enjoy going to church now, for the first time in my life(no joke). Not just because of the music, but because of the passion and love of the people. I really feel like we're worshiping God on Sunday instead of just playing church. I look forward to going to church here, whereas I looked forward to leaving church in America.

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