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What is wrong with Christian Contemporary Music and Rock?

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It's just another thing we use to avoid having to actually deal with the true plumbline--the heart.


[offtopic]What's in the heart comes out, Behold. The verse you quoted about God looking on the heart is twofold. God does look on the heart. And we are to be concerned about that. The issues of our life come from our hearts. And that is where the rest of the verse comes in. Man sees the outward. And man judges by the outward externals, whether we like it or not. If a person is right with God, the external will show it.

but that scripture has been grossly misconstrued and I don't think we realize that there is a huge difference between our modern idea of what constitutes "long hair" on a man and the 1st century idea of that


yep, you're right, it's been grossly misconstrued = by those who want men to be excused for wearing long hair. Sorry, but our modern idea of what constitutes long hair on a man is basically the same as the 1st century. Check out the busts from that time period. All of the men had hair above their ears and collars. That's the way it was.

And, nope - there are men who are more turned on by a woman in jeans (even loose) than a woman in a mini skirt. So that argument doesn't hold water. And all of this is off-topic, sorry... :Green[/offtopic]

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Good afternoon, LuAnne...Good points! :thumb Your post is really NOT that "off topic", though...b/c what you mentioned does actually go hand in hand. :amen::goodpost:

candlelight

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P.S. Meat is referring to indepth things of the Word of God - not straightforward preaching. The lost and baby Christians should be given the plain, straightforward Word of God - not something watered down. You can't save someone by watered down lyrics - you need to clearly present the Gospel in order to have fruit from it. If you water down the Gospel, you won't get anyone saved - AND YES, most CCM contains watered down lyrics, most have unclear or questionable (if not outright false) doctrine, and most doesn't even use the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - they say, He, Him, God, the One, etc. - but rarely mention Jesus Christ in a clear manner that glorifies Him.

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P.S. Meat is referring to indepth things of the Word of God - not straightforward preaching. The lost and baby Christians should be given the plain' date=' straightforward Word of God - not something watered down. You can't save someone by watered down lyrics - you need to clearly present the Gospel in order to have fruit from it. If you water down the Gospel, you won't get anyone saved - AND YES, most CCM contains watered down lyrics, most have unclear or questionable (if not outright false) doctrine, and most doesn't even use the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - they say, He, Him, God, the One, etc. - but rarely mention Jesus Christ in a clear manner that glorifies Him.[/quote']

Or...and, this is the most offensive to me, "The man upstairs".

candlelight

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[offtopic]What's in the heart comes out, Behold. The verse you quoted about God looking on the heart is twofold. God does look on the heart. And we are to be concerned about that. The issues of our life come from our hearts. And that is where the rest of the verse comes in. Man sees the outward. And man judges by the outward externals, whether we like it or not. If a person is right with God, the external will show it.


Their actions will show it, not the way they dress. And you know what? I've been to churches where all the kids dressed "right", and most of them would be trying to get out of the door by the time the altar call began, and if any of them did go to the altar, it was for about 30 seconds. On the other hand, I've been to churches where kids dressed wrong (guys had hair that went to their shoulders, wore t-shirts and blue jeans, girls wore pants, etc.), and I'd hear those kids asking the preacher to keep preaching when he said he was about to wrap up, and they wouldn't just be at the altar during the altar call. And when the altar call came, they would stay there on their knees and on their faces crying out to God with tears streaming down their faces, and they would still be there long after the preacher had left the building, crying out to Jesus Christ.

And you know what? These are the same kids that stand in front of abortion clinics on Saturdays all day long witnessing to broken women, praying for babies, and asking God to change the hearts of this nation. My old church, where all the teens "dressed right", refused to participate with these churches in the fight against abortion because they looked different.

These are the same kids that go into the streets of New Orleans at Mardi Gras (and when I say kids, I usually mean 16-early 20s) witnessing to all the messed up people that most church people are scared to death to talk to Jesus about (like flaming homosexuals and strippers, for example).

But we all know that they aren't really Christians, because they don't dress like our traditions say they should!

God help us.



And, nope - there are men who are more turned on by a woman in jeans (even loose) than a woman in a mini skirt. So that argument doesn't hold water. And all of this is off-topic, sorry... :Green[/offtopic]

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Their actions will show it, not the way they dress. And you know what? I've been to churches where all the kids dressed "right", and most of them would be trying to get out of the door by the time the altar call began, and if any of them did go to the altar, it was for about 30 seconds. On the other hand, I've been to churches where kids dressed wrong (guys had hair that went to their shoulders, wore t-shirts and blue jeans, girls wore pants, etc.), and I'd hear those kids asking the preacher to keep preaching when he said he was about to wrap up, and they wouldn't just be at the altar during the altar call. And when the altar call came, they would stay there on their knees and on their faces crying out to God with tears streaming down their faces, and they would still be there long after the preacher had left the building, crying out to Jesus Christ.

And you know what? These are the same kids that stand in front of abortion clinics on Saturdays all day long witnessing to broken women, praying for babies, and asking God to change the hearts of this nation. My old church, where all the teens "dressed right", refused to participate with these churches in the fight against abortion because they looked different.

These are the same kids that go into the streets of New Orleans at Mardi Gras (and when I say kids, I usually mean 16-early 20s) witnessing to all the messed up people that most church people are scared to death to talk to Jesus about (like flaming homosexuals and strippers, for example).

But we all know that they aren't really Christians, because they don't dress like our traditions say they should!

God help us.




I've heard more girls and seen more girls going on about the way a man's backside looks in a pair of pants than I have heard guys saying the same thing about a girl. Should men start wearing kilts?

OR, should our churches start teaching its men [and women, because they do it too, plenty] not to be perverts?

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I really don't know where you've been if the churches you've been in haven't taught people not to be perverts. I've heard girls talk about that too, and it is just as disgusting from them as it is guys. Works both ways.


I've always felt like a lot of the churches I grew up in just gave up on their guys as a lost cause and forced the girls to work extra hard because they didn't know what to do with their guys (when the real problem was that the guys had never been taught about loving Jesus Christ).

And I have seen young people like you have described,too. But that doesn't excuse looking like the world. Kudos to them for being soft to the Holy Spirit...but the Bible says be separate - that means be separate. No, it will not only show in their actions. It will show in every aspect of their lives - including dress. Do I think the kids you describes aren't Christian? No - but I do think they need to grow.


It DOES show in their dress, in that they dress modestly. But there's a difference in dressing modestly and in dressing "church-ily". And you know what? People respond way better to modest dress as opposed to "church" dress. When you go up to someone dressed in church clothes, a lot of people will automatically shut off because they've had so much experience with judgmental church people who wouldn't accept them because they thought the fish should be clean before they even caught it. And I grew up around way too many kids that though they were automatically justified and automatically better than all the others because their parents taught them how to dress like church kids.

And that's why I grew up around kids who looked and dressed like church kids, but when they got away from church and got away from their parents, suddenly they were "looking right" but they were far from acting right or being right.

And this goes right back to the words of Jesus...

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrties! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleaness. Even so, ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity." Matthew 23:27-28

Yes, those kids need to grow, just as we all do. But their growth in God is not going to make them dress more like religion wants them to. What it's going to do is separate them even further from the world, from religion, and from the ideas and traditions of men.


It is a shame that so many churches major on the external, and do not teach how to have an abundant life with Christ. But it is also a shame that a church will teach how to have an abundant life with Christ and leave its people with the idea that they can look like the world and it's okay 'cause God looks on the heart. Again, God knows that man looks on the external and that's one of the reasons we are to be separate. The world and Christianity cannot be mixed.


Right, it can't. That's why Christianity has got to learn that the world is focused on the material, but Christianity is about the spiritual, and the exterior is going to be a reflection of that--and again, no, that's not necessarily going to mean looking like church folks think we should look.

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Behold the Lamb,

What is the leaven of Herod in your opinion?


In modern application? Many of the modern-day rockstar televangelists, the misapplication, misuse of some CCM/CR music, the modern spiritual frenzies--Eckhart Tolle (which teaches a perverted Jesus), false modern revival that tickle the ears and cater to the flesh (like the one in Lakeland with Todd Bentley, for example), Christian compromise in the political realm according to human wisdom, churches that form unholy alliances with evil worldly governments, etc., and so on and so forth.

On the other hand, you have the leaven of the Pharisees, which has produced dead churches, religion-centered churches, lukewarm churches that have all the rules down but wouldn't know the Son of God if he walked right in front of them, churches whose man focus is on the traditions of God, churches who hate anything that's unfamiliar and out of the normal, etc.

Neither is good.

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In modern application? Many of the modern-day rockstar televangelists, the misapplication, misuse of some CCM/CR music, the modern spiritual frenzies--Eckhart Tolle (which teaches a perverted Jesus), false modern revival that tickle the ears and cater to the flesh (like the one in Lakeland with Todd Bentley, for example), Christian compromise in the political realm according to human wisdom, churches that form unholy alliances with evil worldly governments, etc., and so on and so forth.


I agree with all the examples you mentioned. But how do YOU know where to draw the line? For example, you said pants are "ok" but miniskirts are not because they tend to incite lust. However, I have met others who say short skirts and skimpy clothing are "ok", and are are "the culture" not sin... Just know every argument I have seen you attempt to use to justify what you think is "ok" is being used by someone else to justify the next step downward into greater impurity. I really think you are under the impression a little leaven isn't that bad and will not leaven the whole lump. Scripture says otherwise.

On the other hand, you have the leaven of the Pharisees, which has produced dead churches, religion-centered churches, lukewarm churches that have all the rules down but wouldn't know the Son of God if he walked right in front of them, churches whose man focus is on the traditions of God, churches who hate anything that's unfamiliar and out of the normal, etc.


That is true. However, you should notice in scripture not all the pharisees were bad, a number were Godly people who believed on Christ. Know that although as a group they certainly went far beyond scripture, In many ways the sect of the pharisees was right doctrinally, the problem was that to many of its members it was just a set of rules and a form of Godliness. That is why Jesus said they made the outside of the cup beautiful, they "looked" like a Godly believer should indeed have looked in that day, but many of their hearts were wicked and they were only making a show. It was not of faith to those, but with others it was and when Christ came they believed on him. On the other hand I am not aware of any individuals mentioned who were part of the sadducees or the Herodians believing on him. They were corrupt in heart and in doctrine. The the doctrine of the pharisees overall was far closer to the truth, but the hearts of many were evil, so in that respect they were no better in the sight of Christ.

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P.S. Meat is referring to indepth things of the Word of God - not straightforward preaching. The lost and baby Christians should be given the plain' date=' straightforward Word of God - not something watered down. You can't save someone by watered down lyrics - you need to clearly present the Gospel in order to have fruit from it. If you water down the Gospel, you won't get anyone saved - AND YES, most CCM contains watered down lyrics, most have unclear or questionable (if not outright false) doctrine, and most doesn't even use the name of the Lord Jesus Christ - they say, He, Him, God, the One, etc. - but rarely mention Jesus Christ in a clear manner that glorifies Him.[/quote']
Have you ever listened to Casting Crowns lyrics? They have some very powerful stuff that is not at all ungodly or doctrinally in error.

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I'm afraid you misunderstood my post, Candlelight. I was not clear, and for that I apologize. I clarified it two posts later.

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Hi Vir! I saw your second post, and, I do understand where you are coming from. :smile

candlelight

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I like the Gaithers, the music of Stephen Curtis Chapman, Twila Paris, Sandi Patti, and Majesty. I do not like rap or any music that does not glorify the Lord. But some music is based upon Christian convictions! It is between the Holy Spirit and the individual believer! No music based upon Christian convictions is worth dividing the body of Jesus Christ over! I also love patriotic music such as that by Lee Greenwood and the kind we sing in church on the Fourth of July!

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Hi Kevin! Some CCM groups glorify the Lord Jesus Christ. This is true, IMO. The one group that comes to mind is, Mercy Me. The lyrics for many of the songs on one of their CD's are very powerful...as well.

"HERE AM I"...Words and Music by Peter Kipley and Bart Millard

On the other side of the world
She stands on the ocean shore
Gazing at the heavens she wonders
Is there something more
Never been told the name of JesusShe turns and walks away...What a shame.

Just across the street in your hometown
Leaving from his nine to five
Gazing down the road he wonders
Is this all there is to life
Never been told the name of JesusHe continues on his way...What a shame.

Chorus:
Whom shall I send
Who will go for me
To the ends of the earth
Who will rise up for the King
Here am I, send me
Here am I, send me

Whether foreign land or neighbors
Everyone's the same
searching for the answers
That lie within your name
I want to proclaim the name of Jesus
In all I do and say
Unashamed

Chorus:
Whom shall I send
Who will go for me
To the ends of the earth
Who will rise up for the King
Here am I, send me
Here am I, send me

Bridge:
How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news
Proclaiming peach and your salvation

Chorus:
Whom shall I send
Who will go for me
To the ends of the earth
Who will rise up for the King
Here am I, send me
Here am I, send me

mercyme. almost there. CD...copyright 2001.

Because of Calvary,


candlelight

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Yikes!!! :-S :eek :sad Well, I had to dust it off...I got it before I was saved. I guess, I will have to crack or burn this CD. Unbelievable! My "Life Verse" Romans 1:16...is even mentioned on this site.

candlelight

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/28/earlyshow/saturday/secondcup/main1560598.shtml?source=RSS&attr=_1560598

Also note that here the news calls them a "crossover" group. That right there shows that even the secular cbs news realizes just how worldly CCM like they produce is. You wouldn't sell 4 million copies of Godly music unless a major revival was shaking the nation. I don't think I would have missed it if one was. :wink

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I'm not a big fan of MercyMe. The only song I really like is I Can Only Imagine, which is undeniably Christian. Casting Crowns is very dedicated to Christ. I've been particularly impressed with that.

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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/28/earlyshow/saturday/secondcup/main1560598.shtml?source=RSS&attr=_1560598

Also note that here the news calls them a "crossover" group. That right there shows that even the secular cbs news realizes just how worldly CCM like they produce is. You wouldn't sell 4 million copies of Godly music unless a major revival was shaking the nation. I don't think I would have missed it if one was. :wink


Oh...it is amazing what the "secular" news tells viewers. My pastor has said, "the secular world is giving us more "valuable" information than some of our Christian pulpets across America". Sssh...my pastor doesn't know that I still have this group in my collection. So, mums the word, right? That goes for you, too, Kevin waaay over their in Korea. :wave:

candlelight

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The only song I really like is I Can Only Imagine, which is undeniably Christian.


I am inclined to deny it. Something is wrong when it is their first "crossover" smash hit.

From wikipedia:

"I Can Only Imagine" is a song written and recorded by contemporary Christian music group MercyMe. Released on MercyMe's 2001 debut album Almost There, the song received major airplay on both Christian and mainstream radio. It earned three Dove Awards in 2002 for "Pop Song", "Song of the Year", and "Songwriter of the Year" for its author and MercyMe lead singer Bart Millard.

I just don't see that happening if it was a godly song.

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

It looks a great deal more like a case of the world loving its own...

BTW candlelight no one is worried about what you had, you said it was before you were saved anyway so it is no wonder you didn't have the discernment to see the "issues".

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

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I'm not a big fan of MercyMe. The only song I really like is I Can Only Imagine' date=' which is undeniably Christian. Casting Crowns is very dedicated to Christ. I've been particularly impressed with that.[/quote']

Good evening Kevin. My sister told me about the group, "Casting Crowns". I can't place them, though. When did they surface? I must has missed them.

candlelight

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