What drives men like this?

[heartstrings]

Now the man who "smote his breast", and said "God be merciful to me, a sinner", was justified. The Bible says that if one "calls upon the name of the Lord" they shall be saved. It also says "Confess with thy mouth and beleive in thine heart" etc.  These are certainly examples of "praying a prayer". I would argue that the "thief on the cross" did the same: he spoke directly to God and was saved. So if someone prays a "one time prayer" believes on Jesus for salvation, and the Holy Ghost indwells them, that "one time prayer" was enough. So what does this guy mean by this and what drives such a man to constantly preach negative stuff like this? And what drives such a man to teach that God predetermines a few for Heaven while predetermining most others to Hell? So what if he preaches in other countries etc. Alot of other false teachers are just as passionate about getting their brand of false gospel to the masses as well. I mean, what drives such men to continually spew this stuff? Are they devil-possessed? Is it the same spirit that drove men to deceive people to the bitter end, like Jim Jones , David Koresh and Marshall Applewhite did?  I don't get it.

Edited March 23, 2023 by heartstrings

[HappyChristian]

Since that was only 5 minutes, I'm not sure what else he said. But it does sound to me like he's preaching against easy believism, which has been predominant in American Christianity for many years.

Not that believing in Christ isn't easy, but that folks trust in their prayer rather than the person of Christ, with no repentance. The Bible does teach that salvation will bear fruit in a changed life. 

 

[TheGloryLand]

3 hours ago, heartstrings said:

Now the man who "smote his breast", and said "God be merciful to me, a sinner", was justified. The Bible says that if one "calls upon the name of the Lord" they shall be saved. It also says "Confess with thy mouth and beleive in thine heart" etc.  These are certainly examples of "praying a prayer". I would argue that the "thief on the cross" did the same: he spoke directly to God and was saved. So if someone prays a "one time prayer" believes on Jesus for salvation, and the Holy Ghost indwells them, that "one time prayer" was enough. So what does this guy mean by this and what drives such a man to constantly preach negative stuff like this? And what drives such a man to teach that God predetermines a few for Heaven while predetermining most others to Hell? So what if he preaches in other countries etc. Alot of other false teachers are just as passionate about getting their brand of false gospel to the masses as well. I mean, what drives such men to continually spew this stuff? Are they devil-possessed? Is it the same spirit that drove men to deceive people to the bitter end, like Jim Jones , David Koresh and Marshall Applewhite did?  I don't get it.

I watched and heard his message and some of it is pretty good, now about the part of the sinners prayer, I believe he’s wrong. There might be some churches that are not saying, you must believe also in the gospel, Gods Word, but I believe many churches do as part of the sinners prayer, says in Gods Word the Holy Bible. Now when it comes to people changing in their lives. It’s individually, some change faster than others. America, is no longer the leading role in Christianity, the way it should be. It’s getting worse and it has open it doors to sin. Example to abortion, the LGBTQ movement, drugs, greedy, hate, perversion. This might not sound like a sin to you, but laziness here in America has multiplied, people don’t wanna work, they want easy money. Now going back to the preacher. He’s right on many things he said, but wrong on judging everyone the same. It’s not just saying I have Jesus in my heart it more to it. Yes, you need to believe that the Bible is God‘s word, and that the gospel of salvation is through Jesus Christ alone, through faith and grace. 

[heartstrings]

1 hour ago, HappyChristian said:

Since that was only 5 minutes, I'm not sure what else he said. But it does sound to me like he's preaching against easy believism, which has been predominant in American Christianity for many years.

Not that believing in Christ isn't easy, but that folks trust in their prayer rather than the person of Christ, with no repentance. The Bible does teach that salvation will bear fruit in a changed life. 

 

"So many people are deceived! And so many youth are deceived! And so many adults are deceived! Into believing, that because they prayed a prayer one time in their life they are going to heaven." -Paul Washer 

That would depend on the faith and repentence that went into that "one-time" prayer. Because, if the Holy Spirit indwelled that person during that prayer, he's as saved as he can possibly be. I certainly wouldn't make such a statement as he has here.

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by heartstrings

[heartstrings]

Now, stuff like this....

Step 1 Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner,

2 I ask for Your forgiveness.

3 I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead.

4 I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life.

5 I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior.

The 1, 2, 3 repeat after me "salvation" yeah, I agree, I doubt very seriously many if any get truly born again that way. But to basically say that people can't have any assurance in their salvation because they prayed a one time prayer? I mean, what's up with that?

Edited March 23, 2023 by heartstrings
clarification

[HappyChristian]

8 minutes ago, heartstrings said:

"So many people are deceived! And so many youth are deceived! And so many adults are deceived! Into believing, that because they prayed a prayer one time in their life they are going to heaven." -Paul Washer 

That would depend on the faith and repentence that went into that "one-time" prayer. Because, if the Holy Spirit indwelled that person during that prayer, he's as saved as he can possibly be. I certainly wouldn't make such a statement as he has here.

 

I agree totally with you. But I have, sadly, met people who hold to their prayer, not necessarily to Christ. I've talked to people while going door-to-door who answer with the fact they prayed, not that they trusted Christ. Mayhap it's a semantics thing, but I don't think so. 

I am leery of "agreeing" with him, since I know he comes from a reformed (he calls himself a "Spurgeonist" rather than a Calvanist) premise. 

1 minute ago, heartstrings said:

Now, stuff like this....

Step 1 Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner,

2 I ask for Your forgiveness.

3 I believe You died for my sins and rose from the dead.

4 I turn from my sins and invite You to come into my heart and life.

5 I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior.

The 1, 2, 3 repeat after me "salvation" yeah, I agree, I doubt very seriously many if any get truly born again that way. But to say that you can't have assurance because you prayed a one time prayer? I mean, what's up with that?

Yeah, maybe I should have called it easy prayerism instead, because that is exactly what I was thinking. As for what he was saying, just a caution again - this is only a 5 minute clip, so we don't know the rest of what he said. He could have explained himself more fully, which his last statement would actually be a good bridge to do so.

I don't in any way want to stamp my approval if in any way he's pushing works, which is oftimes what the "no fruit/no salvation" crowd does (Ray Comfort, etc).

[BrotherTony]

10 minutes ago, HappyChristian said:

I agree totally with you. But I have, sadly, met people who hold to their prayer, not necessarily to Christ. I've talked to people while going door-to-door who answer with the fact they prayed, not that they trusted Christ. Mayhap it's a semantics thing, but I don't think so. 

I am leery of "agreeing" with him, since I know he comes from a reformed (he calls himself a "Spurgeonist" rather than a Calvanist) premise. 

Yeah, maybe I should have called it easy prayerism instead, because that is exactly what I was thinking. As for what he was saying, just a caution again - this is only a 5 minute clip, so we don't know the rest of what he said. He could have explained himself more fully, which his last statement would actually be a good bridge to do so.

I don't in any way want to stamp my approval if in any way he's pushing works, which is oftimes what the "no fruit/no salvation" crowd does (Ray Comfort, etc).

I have to say that in the first Bible college I attended, this type of prayer he's railing against was prevalent! I have to admit that this type of prayer has always bothered me, not in the fact that coming to Christ isn't easy, but, that no repentance was evident before the prayer was lifted up. Now, at MBBC, Dr. Cedarholm always told us to explain fully the necessity of repentance towards God and for being a sinner. Not many converts, but the ones who did pray were usually the ones who grew and showed the true signs of salvation.  

[heartstrings]

When I got saved I said, no, screamed one word (((((JESUS))))))!!!!!!!. Looking back now, I would liken it to the desperate scream of a drowning person about to go down for the last time. I had heard the Gospel in the message, saw myself as a wicked sinner, had been shown the righteous holiness and love of God, realized I deserved Hell and  didn't want to go to there. I didn't know what to say, I just screamed it out right there in the pew on my way to the front of the church and I don't reckon the thought even occured to me to care who heard it. It was just God and me and, from my perspective, He was right there in the room. That was my prayer of faith. That is of no merit of my own. God set before me the ultimatum and the opportunity to choose death or life and I chose life.

I don't know how Mr. Washer would assess that but, that matters not to me. What he needs to assess, is the fact that his Calvinist leanings are false doctrine, I mean, who would truly put their trust in a Jesus who only died for a few and purposely chose to not enable the rest of humanity to believe so that they could go to Hell for some sick concept of "glory"? That doctrine is a misrepresentation, a lie, about the very character of God. I'm glad I had never even heard of that mess before I got saved. The man can't even get the character, the very heart, of God right so how can he teach people about salvation...."easy believism" or  to be qualified to speak of people not showing any fruit in their life? What kind of fruit is in his? 

[Invicta]

On 3/23/2023 at 8:23 PM, heartstrings said:

"So many people are deceived! And so many youth are deceived! And so many adults are deceived! Into believing, that because they prayed a prayer one time in their life they are going to heaven." -Paul Washer 

That would depend on the faith and repentence that went into that "one-time" prayer. Because, if the Holy Spirit indwelled that person during that prayer, he's as saved as he can possibly be. I certainly wouldn't make such a statement as he has here.

 

If it was a genuine repentance the repentant would show a change which will be noticed. That is why special meetings and camps where many are "saved" are dangerous. There was a church near here, it was Assemblies of God but changed its name to the ".net Church"  They had a "Battle  of Bands" event in a local park. This consisted of the church band playing against secular bands. Included in the event was an "I said yes to Jesus" campaign. They passed out cards which said "I said yes to Jesus" they got them to sign it and then told them that they were now a Christian. They then invited them to come to the church for a curry, and no doubt that was the last they saw of them. 

[TheGloryLand]

6 hours ago, Invicta said:

If it was a genuine repentance the repentant would show a change which will be noticed. That is why special meetings and camps where many are "saved" are dangerous. There was a church near here, it was Assemblies of God but changed its name to the ".net Church"  They had a "Battle  of Bands" event in a local park. This consisted of the church band playing against secular bands. Included in the event was an "I said yes to Jesus" campaign. They passed out cards which said "I said yes to Jesus" they got them to sign it and then told them that they were now a Christian. They then invited them to come to the church for a curry, and no doubt that was the last they saw of them. 

That’s correct Jesus is not in the cosigning business, or tracking device. Since you mentioned card, it reminds me of the invitation cards giving out in the church. The first time visitor card, it should have also at the bottom, would you like a visit from us yes or no, and respect their decision.

Edited April 12, 2023 by TheGloryLand

[BrotherTony]

1 hour ago, TheGloryLand said:

That’s correct Jesus is not in the cosigning business, or tracking device. Since you mentioned card, it reminds me of the invitation cards giving out in the church. The first time visitor card, it should have also at the bottom, would you like a visit from us yes or no, and respect their decision.

The church I grew up in had something similar to the cards you're speaking of. We always respected their decision if they asked not to be contacted.

[heartstrings]

12 hours ago, Invicta said:

If it was a genuine repentance the repentant would show a change which will be noticed. That is why special meetings and camps where many are "saved" are dangerous. There was a church near here, it was Assemblies of God but changed its name to the ".net Church"  They had a "Battle  of Bands" event in a local park. This consisted of the church band playing against secular bands. Included in the event was an "I said yes to Jesus" campaign. They passed out cards which said "I said yes to Jesus" they got them to sign it and then told them that they were now a Christian. They then invited them to come to the church for a curry, and no doubt that was the last they saw of them. 

This is the phrase which caught my attention:

"So many people are deceived! And so many youth are deceived! And so many adults are deceived! Into believing, that because they prayed a prayer one time in their life they are going to heaven." -Paul Washer 

The reality of whether one has truly repented and believed is between them and God. But let me get what this man is saying; is he saying it takes more than one prayer? Or...works? I mean, so, a "one time prayer" isn't enough, even for someone who truly repents and prays that prayer from the heart? That's what is sounds like he's saying.

 The publican, in Luke 18, who stood afar off, smote his breast and said "God be merciful to me, a sinner" prayed that "one time prayer" from the heart,  and "went down to his house justified". It was the pharisee who said his empty, meaningless "prayer": "God I thank thee that I am not as other men are" who was still lost and "deceived".  Just one "one time prayer" like the publican's is all it takes for Jesus to come into your heart, and the Holy Ghost indwells you forever. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by heartstrings

[Jerry]

Paul Washer is a died-hard Calvinist, who doesn't seem to draw any lines with others, as long as they are Calvinists. I lost a lot of respect for him when checking him out the last year or two on youtube - a lot of stuff with little Biblical substance. He talks a lot about common sense things - things people should be for or against - with no Bible in most of those videos I find.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Jerry

[Jerry]

It is not a prayer that saves - it is the faith behind that prayer. Typically, 1-2-3 pray after me scenarios usually involve pressuring a person into praying a prayer without understanding their sin and their need for a Saviour. If a person truly believed who Jesus is and what He has done to save us, repents of their sin and receives the Saviour, that ONE prayer truly saved them. But if there is no truth or repentance behind a prayer, you could pray it a million times and never be saved.

[Disciple.Luke]

This topic was one that depended on who you asked at my church. There  seemed to be some confusion among the members about how one became saved.

I honestly felt like the confusion was in regards to the definition of Repentance and what that meant.

It was my understanding that works based Repentance of trying to change yourself before accepting Christ was false.

I was taught that repentance when it comes to salvation was from acknowledging your sinfulness and believing in Christ for Salvation and the Spirit to start changing you.

So the method when it was written out was - 

1. Admit 

2. Believe 

3. Receive 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Disciple.Luke