Taliban Fighters Enter Kabul

[HappyChristian]

https://www.toddstarnes.com/politics/afghan-americans-protest-at-white-house-theyre-killing-all-my-people/?fbclid=IwAR2X6_TNbFDHLXDcCxV9DxE-gY3O648kgteINZL1vqMxKxyo5veP1pZ5QoQ

[Pastor Matt]

[BrotherTony]

2 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

Maybe we could be smart and make them "Blackhawk DOWN!" LOL

[SureWord]

No doubt these helicopters and other abandoned equipment will be handed over to China and Russia so they can reverse engineer them.

But, as Bro. Matt said, no more mean tweets.

2 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

I read yesterday where one of Trump's lawyers was banned from Twitter, as Trump has been, but the head of the Taliban has not.

[Ukulelemike]

There could never be a peaceful transition or removal of US forces, unless the Afghani people are willing to stand and fight. They're conditioned to either being cowed by fear of the Taliban, or protected by America. And when the chips fell and the time came to stand, having been armed and trained, they dropped everything and ran. 

Our own founding in America is a good example: we had to reach a point where we we so tired of being trod upon, we were willing to die to make a change. Until the people of Afghanistan are willing to do the same, nothing will change. Get our people out and let them receive the recompense due for their unwillingness to stand. When they're tired enough, they'll stand for themselves. Or die trying.

[Salyan]

America's founders had the benefit of the principle of human dignity and worth as found in the Bible, and many were also fighting for true freedom of religion (individual soul liberty). The Afghanis don't have that, and their religion teaches much of what the Taliban represents. I wonder if without that Biblical basis, they'll ever have the real impetus to fight. 

I should talk... look at Canada and the western nations, and how our societies are so freely giving up their liberties for some supposed safety from a nasty flu.

[SureWord]

I see where the leader of the Taliban was released by Obama in 2014 in a prisoner exchange deal.

[BrotherTony]

7 hours ago, SureWord said:

I see where the leader of the Taliban was released by Obama in 2014 in a prisoner exchange deal.

This would not a be anything surprising. Many who were let go have returned to fighting the West.

[Pastor Matt]

[BrotherTony]

Sad, but true!

[Pastor Matt]

"If the United States saw what the United States is doing in the United States, United States would invade the United States to liberate the United States from the tyranny of the United States" -  Twitter

[SureWord]

Good one.

Edited August 20, 2021 by SureWord

[Disciple.Luke]

On 8/15/2021 at 11:18 AM, SureWord said:

We shouldn't have been there to begin with. Those people do not want a democracy because it's an abomination to Islam. 

Just another war to make a few rich at the top even richer (hundreds of millions of dollars have disappeared without a trace).

They'll have to find their opium from somewhere else now. Maybe big Pharma can buy it from China.

Incidentally, Vietnam was the #1 producer of opium in the world before fall of Saigon.

Unfortunately the reality is that Afghanistan was never going to be a democracy without US troops present.

I think we have stop looking at the middle east through a "American"  or western perspective. I'm sure there are a minority of liberal Afghans who admire and want to live in a free country like we do here, but for the most part the Afghans are deeply rooted in Islam and various forms of tribalism. 

The United States was never going to take over the country and make it some kind of proxy state under the US government so once we finally left SOMEONE inevitably was going to take control. While the Taliban may not be much better they have been effective in defeating ISIS fighters who want to make Afghanistan a part of their new "Caliphate".

Like SureWord said - the Afghans are Muslims and WANT to live under Islamic laws. While Muslims believe Sharia is "Allah's" blueprint for a government I think MOST are afraid and are against the very strict interpretation and enforcement of used by the previous Taliban rule and places like Saudi Arabia.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons Mohammed Omar  formed the Taliban was to combat local powerful warlords who were practicing "Bacha bazi " which is the practice of having naked young boys dressed like females dance for them like strippers, and the sexual activity associated with it. Omar assembled and armed his "students" after a warlord kidnapped and raped two young girls and rescued them. Bach bazi was made illegal by the Tabliban and was punishable by death when they came to power. I'm sure the men in Afghanistan today who have been practicing these kind of sex acts while the Taliban were out of power are among the ones in the Kabul airport praying for a way to get out of the country.

The Taliban couldve easily overlooked parts of Islamic law and turned those poppy fields into a cash machine for  the manufacturing of heroin but Omar and the other Taliban leaders rightfully concluded that it was unislamic and burned the fields while making it illegal.

There is simply no good solution when it comes to who controls the Afghanistan government. Because of Islam alone no matter who ends up in power it's going to upset outsiders and draw criticism from Western countries. 

I don't feel like a Taliban government is a good thing, but like I said there is no perfect solution or substitute that is a realistic option for the future there. I only pray that the Taliban truly mean what they say about changing their views on women's rights and the way they ruled before. 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Disciple.Luke

[SureWord]

39 minutes ago, Disciple.Luke said:

Unfortunately the reality is that Afghanistan was never going to be a democracy without US troops present.

I think we have stop looking at the middle east through a "American"  or western perspective. I'm sure there are a minority of liberal Afghans who admire and want to live in a free country like we do here, but for the most part the Afghans are deeply rooted in Islam and various forms of tribalism. 

The United States was never going to take over the country and make it some kind of proxy state under the US government so once we finally left SOMEONE inevitably was going to take control. While the Taliban may not be much better they have been effective in defeating ISIS fighters who want to make Afghanistan a part of their new "Caliphate".

Like SureWord said - the Afghans are Muslims and WANT to live under Islamic laws. While Muslims believe Sharia is "Allah's" blueprint for a government I think MOST are afraid and are against the very strict interpretation and enforcement of used by the previous Taliban rule and places like Saudi Arabia.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons Mohammed Omar  formed the Taliban was to combat local powerful warlords who were practicing "Bacha bazi " which is the practice of having naked young boys dressed like females dance for them like strippers, and the sexual activity associated with it. Omar assembled and armed his "students" after a warlord kidnapped and raped two young girls and rescued them. Bach bazi was made illegal by the Tabliban and was punishable by death when they came to power. I'm sure the men in Afghanistan today who have been practicing these kind of sex acts while the Taliban were out of power are among the ones in the Kabul airport praying for a way to get out of the country.

The Taliban couldve easily overlooked parts of Islamic law and turned those poppy fields into a cash machine for  the manufacturing of heroin but Omar and the other Taliban leaders rightfully concluded that it was unislamic and burned the fields while making it illegal.

There is simply no good solution when it comes to who controls the Afghanistan government. Because of Islam alone no matter who ends up in power it's going to upset outsiders and draw criticism from Western countries. 

I don't feel like a Taliban government is a good thing, but like I said there is no perfect solution or substitute that is a realistic option for the future there. I only pray that the Taliban truly mean what they say about changing their views on women's rights and the way they ruled before. 

 

Yes, the Taliban was actually an improvement over the Mujahideen who was a creation of the CIA in our proxy war against the Soviet Union. Nothing but drug Lords, rapists and pedophiles. The Taliban was burning the opium fields. IMO, that's the main reason we went in.  Apparently, it turned into a giant money laundering campaign also.

[Disciple.Luke]

2 hours ago, SureWord said:

Yes, the Taliban was actually an improvement over the Mujahideen who was a creation of the CIA in our proxy war against the Soviet Union. Nothing but drug Lords, rapists and pedophiles. The Taliban was burning the opium fields. IMO, that's the main reason we went in.  Apparently, it turned into a giant money laundering campaign also.

Agreed.

 

I also agree with your comment about how we never should've been in Afghanistan in the first place.

 

When the US threatened the Afghans if they did not hand over Osama Bin Laden I am not completely convinced that Mohammad Omar refused because he agreed with the 9/11 attacks. Of course once we invaded then the Taliban hit the green light on jihad against us.

 

I think to understand why Omar refused to cooperate with the US you have to consider the Islamic teaching on giving asylum to another Muslim when asked but in Mohammed Omar's case you also have to factor in the local Pushtun tribal traditions that are a part of the Afghan culture.

 

In places like Afghanistan those traditions and rules are taken very seriously and in many cases they would rather die than break an oath or promise, and I believe this is why the Taliban refused to hand bin Laden over. Well or at least part of the reason. Anyone who has seen the movie based on the true story Lone Survivor has seen a portrayal of this. When the US soldier makes it to the village and the jihadist come looking for him the villagers refused to hand him over risking their lives because their tradition compelled them to protect him regardless of personal feelings.

 

In the end we invaded and went to war with an entire country to find one person who was living in PAKISTAN when we found him.