Counsel Needed About KJV Compromise

[Alan]

WellWithMySoul,

I would like to recommend to you a book, 'One Book Stands Alone,' by Dr. Douglas Stauffer to help you deal with the situation with your pastor using the NKJV. The book gives one complete chapter, with examples, of the corruptness found in the NKJV. Some Christian bookstores either sell the book or they can order it for you. Here is the website address if you want to order it yourself. www.mccowenmills.com

Alan

Here is a quote from the book.

Concerning the NKJV Dr. Stauffer states, “The changes found in the NKJV are too numerous to list completely. Some significant removals in the NKJV are as follows:

22 omissions of hell

23 omissions of blood

44 omissions of repent

48 omissions of heaven

51 omissions of God

66 omissions of Lord

In addition to the above deletions, the words devils, damnation, JEHOVAH, and New Testament are omitted completely from the text of the NKJV!”¹

 

1Stauffer, Douglas D., Dr., One Book Stands Alone, 2001. (Millbrook, AL: McCowen Mills Publisher), Page 150.

[No Nicolaitans]

56 minutes ago, robycop3 said:

 When did you become an English professor ?

I never claimed to be one; however, my English Literature professor often used my papers as examples for the other students.

Now...

Which word is correctly interpreted?

[WellWithMySoul]

Alan,

Thank you so very much for the suggestion of the book!  It sounds like a good one.  I would have to look, but we may even have that book.  We have several books about the differences in versions.  It's amazing the subtleties and changes that are made.  It's all so very "crafty" and sly and deceitful.  In my heart, I want to focus so much on what my KJV says, that it's so much easier to recognize what it does not say.  That is how over the months I was able to at least get "red flags" especially on the verses I had memorized.  That Sunday that it finally grabbed my attention, I recognized a verse that the Pastor read that I had memorized  among many back in the 80's when I was homeschooling our kiddos.  That particular verse was James 1:4 - "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." The NKJV uses the word "lacking" (or a form of that) instead of "wanting".  To me, that was a significant difference.  "Lacking nothing" to me, means there could be more - while "wanting nothing" means that it's "perfect and entire"!

Again, Alan, thank you so very much for suggesting the book!!  I truly appreciate it.

To the others discussing the differences in versions, it's all good - but what I really need is counsel on - is how to have godly integrity/attitude in my heart first, in my mind/thoughts, and in my words/behaviours concerning a response to our pastor.  I am accountable to God first for every word that proceeds out of my mouth for He knows every thought and intent in my heart.  I greatly desire to be pleasing to Him, and that whatsoever I do, that I do it to His glory!  We love our pastor and each member of the congregation and so anything that we should say or do, "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (I Cor. 13:1).  I respect our pastor greatly, for it's easy to see that He loves the Lord.  I'm hurt and disappointed, but I love him as my brother in the Lord, as well as the others.  I don't want to in turn hurt or disappoint them by my response.

Overall, I am looking to the Author and Finisher of my faith...WWMS

[HappyChristian]

22 hours ago, robycop3 said:

  A moderator told me not to discuss the KJVO myth here, so I won't, but let me say that "by" indicates the person or agent doing something, while "trrough" can indicate the person or agent  successfully completing a project or objective, I. E. "the team  pulled out a victory THROUGH the quarterback's accurate passing." Just a matter of semantics.

Your initial statement with a caveat of supposedly acceding to moderator instructions is belied by your erroneous attachment of the word "myth," as well as your further statements of correction. It is not a matter of semantics. While some prepositions have similar meanings, they are not the same. You will cease and desist from "correcting" the KJB immediately, roby, in any way. You very well know that this is a KJB site, and yet you continually disrespect that. It needs to stop now. 

[robycop3]

9 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

I never claimed to be one; however, my English Literature professor often used my papers as examples for the other students.

Now...

Which word is correctly interpreted?

 Both.

1 hour ago, HappyChristian said:

Your initial statement with a caveat of supposedly acceding to moderator instructions is belied by your erroneous attachment of the word "myth," as well as your further statements of correction. It is not a matter of semantics. While some prepositions have similar meanings, they are not the same. You will cease and desist from "correcting" the KJB immediately, roby, in any way. You very well know that this is a KJB site, and yet you continually disrespect that. It needs to stop now. 

  Very well !

 

  However, if anyone wishes to discuss KJVO with me,  (and others) you may find me on the "Baptist Board" site, where I post as "robycop3".

 

https://www.baptistboard.com/

[Jim_Alaska]

1 hour ago, robycop3 said:

  However, if anyone wishes to discuss KJVO with me,  (and others) you may find me on the "Baptist Board" site, where I post as "robycop3".

You may rest assured that I will not be going to that board seeking to discuss or find you at any time soon, or ever in fact.

 

[No Nicolaitans]

10 hours ago, WellWithMySoul said:

To the others discussing the differences in versions, it's all good - but what I really need is counsel on - is how to have godly integrity/attitude in my heart first, in my mind/thoughts, and in my words/behaviours concerning a response to our pastor. 

WWMS,

I sincerely apologize for my part in this; please forgive me.

I pray that the Lord will give you wisdom and understanding in how to handle your current situation.

[WellWithMySoul]

Thank you, NN, it was kind of you to apologize and to be considerate - even though I was not at all offended.  I certainly understand the passion behind standing on God's Word.  I am always aware of John 1:1!  Truly, if we were physically face to face with the Saviour would we have the audacity to basically "correct" His words to make them easier to understand?  Perhaps that's not the best of illustrations because of the translation to English, but to me concerning the KJV, it is.  Aren't people just trying to "bring God down to their level of understanding" rather than to trust and to be continually growing up in Him?  Anyway, yes, I could go on and on for I too have a passion about fearing Him and desiring to be transformed more and more to His likeness, His way, His timing, and by His workmanship.  My KJV has never failed me, and when I don't understand verses or passages, I ask Him to teach me what He wants me to understand and know; "...Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, sayeth the LORD of hosts" (Zech. 4:6b). 

We are still praying about our response to our pastor first seeking meekness (II Tim. 2:25).   I know that the Lord will bring right thoughts and all utterance according to His purpose as we seek His will and way and avail ourselves to Him.  Even as I sit here thinking of all of this, I'm just so saddened.  Perhaps if the Lord leads any to post some scripture about how to handle compromise with a right heart, it would truly be helpful.

Thank you again, NN.

[DaChaser]

On 5/13/2020 at 6:07 AM, robycop3 said:

  The NKJV is an updated KJV, using the same manuscripts used to make the KJV.

It would be just an update of the Kjv to modern grammar!

[Tyndale]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 9:00 AM, WellWithMySoul said:

  That particular verse was James 1:4 - "But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." The NKJV uses the word "lacking" (or a form of that) instead of "wanting".  To me, that was a significant difference.  "Lacking nothing" to me, means there could be more - while "wanting nothing" means that it's "perfect and entire"!

 

"Want" or "wanting" in the 1600's was often used with the meaning "lack" or "lacking" so there would not be a significant difference.

At James 1:4, D. A. Waite's Defined King James Bible gives the following definition for "wanting:"  "lacking, needing."

At the entry for "want," David W. Daniels in his booklet The King James Bible Companion gave this definition:  "lack, be deficient" (Deut. 28:48).

At its entry for "want," David Cloud in his Concise King James Bible Dictionary gave this definition:  "to lack" (John 2:3) (p. 95). 

In his book entitled Archaic Words and the Authorized Version, Laurence M. Vance wrote:  "The word want in the AV is never used in the sense of desire but rather with the older meaning of lacking or deficient in" (p. 370).

Edited May 15, 2020 by Tyndale

[Tyndale]

I have read the KJV over 50 years.   I do not think that my love for and reading of the KJV would entitle me as a believer to approve the making of any unrighteous judgments concerning the NKJV.

John 7:24

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

According to superficial appearance, the NKJV may be said to be missing the name "God" 51 times where it is found in the KJV.

Do those who seem to judge according to the appearance check more carefully to see whether the name "God" is found in the Hebrew Masoretic text or in the Greek Textus Receptus in all those places?

According to righteous judgment, can the NKJV be said to remove or omit the name "God" 51 times where it is found in the Hebrew Masoretic OT text and Greek Textus Receptus NT text from which the KJV is translated?

At 2 Samuel 20:20, the 1560 Geneva Bible and the 1568 Bishops' Bible have "God forbid" twice while the 1611 KJV has "Far be it" twice.   Would it be righteous judgment to claim that the KJV removes or omits the name of God twice at 2 Samuel 20:20?  I don't think so since the name of "God" is not in the Hebrew Masoretic text for those words "God forbid."  If I apply the same exact measures/standards justly to the NKJV that I would apply to the KJV concerning 2 Samuel 20:20, I cannot justly claim that it removes the name "God" in verses where the name of God is not found in the Hebrew Masoretic text or in the Textus Receptus.  

 

 

[WellWithMySoul]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge; I appreciate it.  I have a lot to learn!  Bunches!  I am, though, already fully persuaded concerning the version issues. 

I started this thread, however, seeking some godly and wise counsel concerning a right attitude and that which is pleasing and glorifying to the Lord - concerning heart matters.  Thank you again to those who have made wise suggestions!

[Tyndale]

In seeking to determine and prove what is acceptable to the Lord (Eph. 5:10), the characteristics of the wisdom from God above should be considered.

James 3:17

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

[WellWithMySoul]

I have a few "tears" in my heart, yet a joyous smile on my face.  First, I received some very godly counsel from my sister in Missouri concerning this matter.  She goes to a little baptist church there that uses the KJV.  Her suggestions were very simple, but also quite wise.  Considering the things shared in this thread along with her thoughts truly gave me a peace.  I have continued to pray about it all, but also truly cast the burden of it to the Lord, and have been waiting upon Him.

(I just wanted to clarify that in the previous post that I made when speaking of James 1:4, I said a couple of times "TO ME..." because that is the way I take it - to me, why change a word that is easy to understand as is, to another word that is supposedly synonymous?    Again, I'm very thankful to be fully persuaded about the KJV.)

Just today, my husband was able to kindly and respectfully address the question to our pastor.  There is no way that I can verbalize our pastor's response, but that is why I started this post as I did.  I have a joyous smile because the Lord answered my prayers, but I am saddened by the pastor's response. 

Perhaps we are "marked and viewed" as "more staunch" about the KJV now, but we will not be contentious or divisive about it.  Is this just the beginning of a "downward slide" (as Ukulelemike referred to it as)?  O how I love the folks in our little church...  I am so glad that the Lord knows my heart.

James 1:5

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by WellWithMySoul
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[WellWithMySoul]

I would rather know the Word, than just to know about it.  I would rather know the Lord Jesus Christ, than just to know about Him.  I would rather seek knowledge followed by understanding, spiritual discernment, and wisdom...than just to count on Biblical intellect.  I would rather not give precedence to time spent in the Word, but rather focus on a walk of faithfulness with a spirit of meekness in obedience to it.  I would rather shew myself approved unto God, than to put on an air and a show for mankind.  I would rather come to the light and have error exposed and reproved by His loving chastening, than to compromise with sin in the darkness.  I would rather that the Lord's workmanship within me shine outwardly, than to "spit-shine" my appearance.  I would rather follow after charity with the truth, than to sully it with contentiousness and unrighteous anger.  I would rather face my needs head-on looking to Him for provision, than to attempt to compete with Him by looking to my own belly.  I would rather that I feared and loved the Lord my God with all of my heart, soul, mind, and strength keeping Him as the "apple of my eye"...hoping to hear, "Well done thou good and faithful servant"...rather than to ever hear the words or to know that there is anything hindering my personal fellowship with my LORD that He could say, "I have somewhat against thee" (though He is referring to the churches in Revelation).

I would rather to be continually and progressively conforming to His image, transformed by the renewing of my mind, and growing more and more into His likeness as His child.  I would rather be fruitful to His glory as I learn and apply more and more of His ways and thoughts in my life, rather than to become stuck and stagnant and lukewarm. I would rather be peculiar, than to be common.  I would rather measure, examine, and judge myself rightly and honestly by His Holiness, remembering that in and of myself I can do no good thing without Him.

WWMS - O how I need Him....