Has God cast aside Israel?

[DaveW]

This is on a blog site that I know of......

I have permission to post it here.

 

Has God cast aside Israel?

There is a whole raft of people out that that have been taught that Christians replace Israel as God’s chosen people. Those who teach this do so primarily so that they can apply the rules and laws pressed upon Israel onto Christians, and so that their teachers can take the authority and position of priests. Pastors are not priests (well at least not any more than any other saved person is a priest), but that is for another time.

This teaching, which takes several different forms and names, but which is called usually “replacement theology” or sometimes “covenant theology” seeks to divorce Israel from the Lord and have the Lord remarry another bride, Christianity. They usually talk about “the church” replacing Israel, but that is an erroneous understanding of the church.

The easiest way to see whether or not this idea is true is to see if the promises given to Israel are transferable to another. With that in mind, let’s look at the first of the promises made to the nation of Israel, before they wre

Let’s set a precedent:

Gen_9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

The “law of first mention” (which is not actually a law by the way) indicates that the first mention of something sets the primary meaning, and unless the context indicates otherwise, this primary meaning is the standard.

In Genesis 9:16 we have the first mention of an “everlasting covenant”.

I think we all understand that this particular everlasting covenant is not dependent upon this sinful and sin affected world in any way.

If it were, then we would have had at least one judgement flood since that time.

So, with the understanding that an everlasting covenant is indeed everlasting – otherwise it is not an everlasting covenant (Is that too simple a concept?), let’s look at another everlasting covenant.

Gen 17:2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

Gen 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,

Gen 17:4 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.

Gen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Gen 17:6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

 

OK then, here we have an everlasting covenant that is given to Abram and to his children (thy seed after thee).

The sign of this covenant on the side of the people was circumcision.

Note however that as this is an everlasting covenant to Abram and to his seed after him, that the covenant is made to this group of people – IF AN INDIVIDUAL person refuses to be circumcised, then he has no part of the covenant.

That does not break the covenant for all those people but for the individual only.

Note also that there is NO OTHER CONDITION placed upon the people subject to this covenant.

Note also that this everlasting covenant is to a specific people and for a specific LAND.

This can not be an everlasting covenant if the Lord then takes it away from this particular group of people and transfers it to any other group of people, and in any case the removal of this covenant can only be upon individuals and only if they refuse to be circumcised.

This brings up two points:

1. Do the Jews still circumcise?

If the answer to that is “Yes”, then the covenant has not been taken from them, and still applies. It will always apply to the nation in any case, as the removal was only possible for individuals – hence it can be removed from an individual and still remain an EVERLASTING covenant.

 Even with circumcision, can this covenant be transferred to another people?

2. The Bible does not talk about this covenant being transferable. The possibility is never even mentioned. And if it was, there is still no provision in the making of the covenant that it can be taken away from the original subjects of the covenant.

The claim that this promise was taken from them because of disobedience is CLEARLY UNBIBLICAL. Only one form of disobedience was relevant to this covenant, and that only applied on an individual level, not a national level.

The land is the physical land that they were standing on, and it was promised under an EVERLASTING COVENANT to the actual physical seed of Abram.

To somehow make it apply in a spiritual sense to Christians today is an outrageous abuse of Scripture and an attempt to deceive by false teaching.

 This should put to rest any idea that God has fully and finally forsaken His chosen nation. The concept of an Everlasting Covenant is certain an irrefutable, and it applies clearly to the Nation of Israel. To remove it from them is to break God’s Promise.

 

There is of course more to it that just this one covenant, but God has not, can not, and will not remove this covenant from the nation of Israel.

[Alan]

DaveW,

Thank you very much for this excellent post from the blog site you are familiar with. I think the blog will be a blessing to all who have a desire to understand the, "everlasting covenants," of God and how they pertain to the nation of Israel. The article clearly explains that the covenants were not transferrable to any one else under any conditions.

[Covenanter]

If you wish to discuss covenant theology, I suggest you study my post of May 22 in the debate thread. Then you would be considering real CT teaching, NOT an ill-informed blog.

[DaveW]

If this is not relevant to you, why bother to comment?

And the point of the post is that God has not cast Israel aside - covenant theology is mentioned but not the main point.

Either ignore it as irrelevant to you, or address the ACTUAL point, rather than smokescreen and try to sidetrack the ACTUAL subject.

Personally, I think your irrelevant post should be deleted, but I will not ask that of the mods, primarily because it shows your tactics.

[John81]

God has cast Israel aside...aside the Mediterranean Sea!

[Alan]

John 81, that is hilarious!

[DaveW]

God has cast Israel aside...aside the Mediterranean Sea!

I'll pay that one.  

[Covenanter]

The straight answer is "No." 

Israel as "my people Israel" has all the promises of God under the new covenant in their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Covenant promises are received when they come to God in repentance and faith, and experienced spiritually in this life, and eternally in glory, ultimately to perfection in the NH&NE.

The difficulties expressed in the OP are due to a failure to recognize that in the opening chapters of Acts the new born-again church was entirely composed of Christ-believing Jews and proselites, so Israel and the church were one redeemed people. Samaritans and other Gentiles were grafted into Israel, (added to the church) as the Gospel spread. 

Circumcision was given as a sign of covenant obedience, of heart circumcision. Jews who rejected the Gospel were declared "uncircumcised." Acts 7:51 Only believers comprise "the circumcision" as Paul teaches in Philippians 3.

God hasn't cast aside Israel as a people - the Gospel is open to them, as it is to people of all nations on earth. The "holy nation" promise of Exo. 19:6 is being realized in Israel (aka the church) as Peter explains in 1 Peter 2:4-10

The prophesied gathering of Israel was being accomplished as the Apostles preached in the synagogues around the world. Sadly in most cases, new believers (Jews and God-fearing Gentiles) were rejected by the Jewish leaders and formed the churches. 

 

[DaveW]

The straight answer is "No." 

Israel as "my people Israel" has all the promises of God under the new covenant in their Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Covenant promises are received when they come to God in repentance and faith, and experienced spiritually in this life, and eternally in glory, ultimately to perfection in the NH&NE.

The difficulties expressed in the OP are due to a failure to recognize that in the opening chapters of Acts the new born-again church was entirely composed of Christ-believing Jews and proselites, so Israel and the church were one redeemed people. Samaritans and other Gentiles were grafted into Israel, (added to the church) as the Gospel spread. 

Circumcision was given as a sign of covenant obedience, of heart circumcision. Jews who rejected the Gospel were declared "uncircumcised." Acts 7:51 Only believers comprise "the circumcision" as Paul teaches in Philippians 3.

God hasn't cast aside Israel as a people - the Gospel is open to them, as it is to people of all nations on earth. The "holy nation" promise of Exo. 19:6 is being realized in Israel (aka the church) as Peter explains in 1 Peter 2:4-10

The prophesied gathering of Israel was being accomplished as the Apostles preached in the synagogues around the world. Sadly in most cases, new believers (Jews and God-fearing Gentiles) were rejected by the Jewish leaders and formed the churches. 

 

There is so much wrong with this post I just don't know where to start - seriously, you should just throw it out and start again with addressing ACTUAL point of the blog post - that this covenant, which is a promise by God to a particular people about a particular land is in fact an everlasting covenant which will always apply to Abraham's seed in the flesh.

 

Curious though - a perfect example of your twisting is made plain in this - you say that Israel has all the promises but then you indicate that Israel is now the church ("grafted into Israel (added to the church)").

If this is not a clear statement that you believe Israel has been replaced by "the church" then I don't know what is. And that makes your first post in this thread a simple lie, as you say the blog has no understanding of CT and the blog mentions that term ONLY in relation to the replacement of Israel

This is a plain and obvious case of twisting terms and evading - your post above quoted shows without doubt that you believe "the church" replaces Israel.

If you ever again state that you do not believe that, then you will be lying plain and simple.

 

Secondly, it shows clearly that you have no idea of the Biblical church and its nature.

So thank you for your contribution to this thread - it is useless as to the subject but it reveals the depth of your false teaching both in content and in style.

Edited May 30, 2015 by DaveW

[Alan]

Brethren,

In the last days preceding the Second Coming of Christ in the Rapture, Paul the Apostle clearly taught that many false teachers would arise among the churches and try to deceive the saints through false doctrine. “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.” 2 Timothy 4:1

By speaking the truth in love, the man of God is to avoid foolish questions designed to deceive and to instruct the saints in order for the saint to know true doctrine from false doctrine and to make the saint complete in the sight of God: 2 Timothy 2:23-26 and 3:16 and 17

In the spirit of love, and to instruct the saints, it is a requirement that the man of God should instruct the saint of the proper interpretation of miss-leading statements through the incorrect usage of scripture. In this case, the incorrect doctrinal statements concerning the nation of Israel, and the Covenants in the Old Testament, in Covenanter’s May 23, 2015 post on OnLine Baptist.

Special Note Concerning Quoting

When I quote Covenanter I will use the entire sentence of the quote. I will use the exact quote without any grammatical or spelling corrections. Furthermore, unless the part of the sentence is already highlighted, I will not highlight any portion of the quote in order not to influence the reader by a false impression. Nor will I use large fonts or highlighted coloring for devious purposes ( if not already used). I am only trying to instruct the reader in learning the correct doctrine and not demeaning Covenanter’s character. My only interest is in the teaching of correct doctrine.

Incorrect Doctrinal Statement

Covenanter said, “Israel as “my people Israel” has all the promises of God under the new covenant in the Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ.”

The new covenant, see Hebrews 8:1-13; 9:15-28 and 10:9-18, does not annul the previous promises and covenants given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Galatians 3:15, “Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be a man’s covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.”

The new covenant, Hebrews 8:1-13; 9:15-28 and 10:9-18, is not referring to the promises and covenants given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It is referring to the Levitical Priesthood and the Law given by Moses, please study Hebrews 7:1-28

All of the promises, and covenants, of God to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob (Israel), and the prophets, are separate promises and covenants in themselves, for different reasons, and have not yet been fulfilled.

Unusual Statement

No such doctrine.

Covenanter said, “The Covenant promises are received when they come to God in repentance and faith, and experienced spiritually in this life, and eternally in glory, ultimately to perfection in the NH&NE.”

There is not on passage in either the Old Testament nor in the New Testament where this is either mentioned, or even implied, by God or taught by the prophets. The statement sounds pious and has scriptural terminology but it has no foundation in scripture.

Incorrect Doctrinal Statement

Covenanter said, “Samaritans and other Gentiles were grafted into Israel, (added to the church) as the gospel spread.”

It is true that when a person is saved he is grafted into the nation of Israel (Romans 11:17), but he then says, “added to the church.” This means that the Church replaced Israel. This is a very subtle error and miss-leading. The Church has not, nor will ever, replace Israel in any manner or fashion. This false doctrine is called, “Replacement Theology.”

When a person is saved he becomes a child of God, and he becomes a fellow heir the nation of Israel. The correct interpretation is that we are a fellow heir of the children of Abraham: we enter into their promises; we do not replace or change their promises. We become a spiritual child of Abraham by faith. Galatians 3:6-9 and 14. Ephesians 3:6 says, “That the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs, and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.”

Miss-usage of, and the twisting of

Acts 7:51 and Philippians 3:3

Acts 7:51, “Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.” This statement is true.

I noticed that Covenanter did not quote Philippians 3:3, but I will do so. “For we are the circumcism, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.” Philippians 3:3. This statement is also true.

But, my loved brethren, neither one of these verses prove that the church is Israel, nor has the church replaced Israel, nor has the Covenants of God in the Old Testament been given to the church.

In fact, if you check your Old Testament reference to, “uncircumcised,” (which Covenanter left out), you will find that the same thing happened in the Old Testament, but, God still did not disannul the promises and covenants He promised to the Jews. Please read and study: Leviticus 26:41; Jeremiah 4:4 and Ezekiel 44:7-9

Doctrinal Note

The Restoration of Israel

Leviticus 26:41 teaches, “And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.”

This promise given by God has not been fulfilled in any manner, or fashion, nor is it fulfilled when a Jew is saved and enters into the Church, nor does the church fulfill this promise in any manner or fashion.

The fulfillment of this promise by God will take place when the nation of Israel acknowledges their sins, their unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Messiah, and a heart belief in Christ as their Saviour. “But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart. Nevertheless, when it [the heart] shall turn to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away.” 2 Corinthians 3:15 and 16

The problem, as with all problems, is a heart problem. Proverbs 4:23

One day, in the future, God will, “graft” again the nation of Israel unto Himself as promised. Romans 11: 23, “And they [the nation of Israel] also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.” Romans 11:29, “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”

Incorrect Doctrinal Statement

Covenanter said, “The ‘holy nation” promise of Exo. 19:6 is being realized in Israel (aka the church) as Peter explains in 1 Peter 2:4-10.”

Both verses are true in themselves, but to say that the church replaced Israel is no where mentioned in the two statements, nor even implied. Peter did not explain that at all.

May I add a note to those who are trying to discern a true teacher of the scriptures and a false teacher. One of the hallmarks of a false teacher is the inability to, “… rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15

Again, his statement that the church is Israel is the false doctrine of “Replacement Theology.” Replacement theology is a false doctrine.

Unusual Statement - Historically & Doctrinally Incorrect

Covenanter said, “The prophesied gathering of Israel was being accomplished as the Apostles preached in the synagogues around the world.”

There is no scriptural foundation for this statement. Israel was not gathered in any sense of the word. In fact, due to their unbelief in Christ as a nation they were scattered throughout the world after 70 A.D.

 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Alan
date error

[Covenanter]

Jer. 33:14-26

I'm away from home for a week, and am limited in formatting and quoting. Please look up the Scriptures I refer to, as Alan has done. 

Did God abandon Israel for 1900 years? Was there no King on David's throne? Are there no acceptable sacrifices? Has the promised Messiah not come? Was the Holy Ghost mistaken at Pentecost? And again was he mistaken when Peter referred to Deu. 18:18-19 in Acts 3:22-26 ?

We will discuss the covenants fully on the debate thread.Q.v.

[DaveW]

Well one thing is for sure - you leave no doubt that you are a clear replacement theology proponent.

For you to continue to protest that is simply dishonest.

But your statements show that you have unbiblical understanding of "church" AND that you believe that God's  promises are cryptic not clear.

The covenant addressed in the OP could not be more clear in its terminology - it was to a particular physical people in regard to a particular physical land and is an everlasting covenant. 

You make a mockery of the promises of God by your fanciful reinterpretation of clear words.

This is the clearest evidence we have seen from you that you do not believe the Bible says what it means, that you do not understand basic Biblical concepts (church),  and that you are deliberately deceitful. You know you are a replacement theologist, yet protest that you are not, but have clearly promoted that very concept.

And all this after you have in the past tried to pass yourself off as "IFB equivalent" which was also exposed as a lie.

 

And you wonder why your false teaching was removed from this IFB site???????

[Miss Daisy]

Thank you DaveW for being able to eloquently and correctly prove, teach and rebuke false teachers and teaching! I've learned a lot from you!

[MountainChristian]

How many individual Israelis does Jesus need to make a nation? 

[Saintnow]

Israel is the apple of God's eye.  Ever since God brought the Jews out of Egypt,  He  punishes or blesses nations according to how they treat Israel.   The USA will be judged, punished,  for legalized Sodomy, abortion, and above those things for siding with Israel's enemies.   9/11 seemed to be a pretty clear warning from God within 24 hours of a much ballyhooed peace agreement being pushed on Israel by President Bush.  The next big warning is going to be remembered more than 9/11, and most people agree it is a matter of "when" and not "if".   The timing is right in line with the US throwing Israel under the bus at the UN.  I hope I"m wrong since I have plans on getting my earthly dream land home within the next year and am not forsaking that plan, but I really believe disaster is around the corner with a serious economic collapse or terrorist attack which will be more memorable than 9/11.

My pastor who is close to earning his doctoral degree thinks those who say God raised up the USA to protect Israel through WWI and WWII could very well be right, and that the global spread of the gospel through Missionaries and the word of God by the King James Bible with English being the closest thing ever since Babel to a universal language was God's icing on the cake.  It's looking like God's special calling for the USA is being willfully terminated by apathy toward God, and it's a shame when Christians don't care for the Jews and Israel as the apple of God's eye.

 

Edited June 30, 2015 by Saintnow