Soulwinning Teens and Young people

[No Nicolaitans]

Why is an Old Testament verse (regarding winning souls) obscure, but another Old Testament verse (regarding God hating the wicked) not obscure when it's used to show people today that God hates them? Here's the skinny as I understand it from what I've seen posted...

1. John 3:16 is talking about God loving the world "in the past" but not today because of the wording of the verse.
2. Today, God hates the wicked.
3. The verse (declaring that God hates the wicked) was written "in the past" before John 3:16 was written.
4. Using the logic of item #1, then God actually only hated the wicked when that verse was written (and not today) because of the wording of the verse.

 

[DaveW]

[RevBob]

David didn't write Proverbs...

​Solomon.  Pretty sure he wasn't talking about a bus ministry in that verse.

[John81]

​Solomon.  Pretty sure he wasn't talking about a bus ministry in that verse.

​Which raises the point of just where Scripture says anything even remotely related to a bus ministry.

[RevBob]

​Unless a term is contrary to Scripture there is little point in arguing over terminology. Some argue all day over the fact neither trinity or rapture are in Scripture yet they are common terms used by Christians. When the term "soul winning" is used here everyone understands it means sharing the Gospel with the lost and it's the work of the Holy Ghost to actually "win" a lost soul to Christ.

While the term "soul winning" might not be understood by the lost, those here recognize its meaning.

There are indeed those who will take a verse such as John 3:16 and build the case God loves everyone, God is all love, God therefore loves us no matter what and His love will make sure everyone goes to heaven...well, except maybe Hitler (they always think Hitler deserves hell but not themselves!).

This is why we must not focus upon one verse but the whole Word of God. God is love but He's also a God of justice. God loves to reward people but He also punishes people when necessary. We have to see, and accept, every aspect of God rather than pick and choose at our convenience. Jesus is Lord and Saviour, not just Saviour, but also Lord; sadly this is often left out.

We need to avoid unprofitable battles among ourselves and we need to take the Gospel to the lost and preach the whole Word of God to all we can.

​There are several issues with the term "soulwinning".  First off, the claims that it is a Biblical term based on Proverbs 11:30: "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise."  That verse is contextually obscure--just read it in context!  It certainly doesn't talk about a modern ministry.  So to link "soul winning" activities to a verse that most likely talks about something else is a huge stretch at best.

The other issue with the term is that it tends to give glory to men.  I've heard people say things like "he's been a champion soulwinner".  It implies that the preachers Save people, and not Grace. 

[Potatochip]

Matthew 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

[RevBob]

Why is an Old Testament verse (regarding winning souls) obscure, but another Old Testament verse (regarding God hating the wicked) not obscure when it's used to show people today that God hates them?

​What's obscure about this verse?

Ps5:

1 To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David. Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

[DaveW]

Would you include lying in that bolded description?

Be careful how you answer, as certain things in this and other threads may have a bearing on you..........

[No Nicolaitans]

​What's obscure about this verse?

Ps5:

1 To the chief Musician upon Nehiloth, A Psalm of David. Give ear to my words, O LORD, consider my meditation.

2 Hearken unto the voice of my cry, my King, and my God: for unto thee will I pray.

3 My voice shalt thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto thee, and will look up.

4 For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

7 But as for me, I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple.

​I didn't say it was obscure; I asked why it wasn't obscure.

You keep referring to reading Proverbs 11:30 in context...that it's contextually obscure.

Proverbs 11:30 stands on its own merit; it is alone in its context. You can't read the preceding or succeeding verses to gain any "context" for Proverbs 11:30. If you read the entire chapter, you will see that it consists of individual verses relaying wisdom in each verse; therefore, there is no actual "context" apart from what each verse is relaying. Each verse stands alone with an individual message. The context of Proverbs 11:30 is exactly what it says.

[John81]

​There are several issues with the term "soulwinning".  First off, the claims that it is a Biblical term based on Proverbs 11:30: "The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise."  That verse is contextually obscure--just read it in context!  It certainly doesn't talk about a modern ministry.  So to link "soul winning" activities to a verse that most likely talks about something else is a huge stretch at best.

The other issue with the term is that it tends to give glory to men.  I've heard people say things like "he's been a champion soulwinner".  It implies that the preachers Save people, and not Grace. 

​Properly used I see no problem with the term "soul winning". Those who want to gain praise for themselves as some great soul winner have heart issues which need addressed that have nothing to do with the term.

I've heard folks who use the term "fishers of men" make claims of being the best fishers, but again, that's a sinful issue in their heart which needs addressed, not a problem with the term being used.

[DaveW]

And I've seen men take titles of honour to themselves as well - like "Reverend" which, while we are talking biblical terms, should only be applied to God.

That seems to me like a very prideful thing to do. And an unbiblical thing to do as well.

[wretched]

​Which raises the point of just where Scripture says anything even remotely related to a bus ministry.

​Go out into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in.

He that goeth forth weeping, bearing precious seed shall doubtless come again with rejoicing bringing his sheaves with him.

Pretty much all of it related to the Lord's Command is related to the bus ministry. The bus ministry is the open door ticket into countless homes with the ice already broken.

Time is getting shorter every day folks, you may want to reevaluate sitting on laurels.

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I don't want to be in the "dull as mud" section of Heaven with the calvin worshippers. I want to be in the shiney section thank you very much

 

Edited May 28, 2015 by wretched

[Rebecca]

Potatochip and others who have offered testimony of your Biblical witness to young people, thank you. You are setting a good Christian example for the people around you and to us through your testimony.  

Also it's too bad this thread got so derailed into yet another fruitless discussion  argument about Calvinism. And I sincerely apologize for my part in it. 

 

Edited May 28, 2015 by Li Bai Jia

[John81]

​Go out into the highways and hedges and compel them to come in.

He that goeth forth weeping, bearing precious seed shall doubtless come again with rejoicing bringing his sheaves with him.

Pretty much all of it related to the Lord's Command is related to the bus ministry. The bus ministry is the open door ticket into countless homes with the ice already broken.

Time is getting shorter every day folks, you may want to reevaluate sitting on laurels.

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I don't want to be in the "dull as mud" section of Heaven with the calvin worshippers. I want to be in the shiney section thank you very much

 

​This is telling them to go out and make disciples (as it were) and bring them in; not to go forth and drag the lost into the home of the saved. Notice those not properly dressed (unsaved) who showed up were kicked out.

"Church" is to be the gathering of the saints (saved folks) for edification, teaching and instruction in holy living and spreading the Gospel. The saints are then to go forth share the Gospel, bringing those who hear and receive into the gathering of believers. 

 

[Potatochip]

Li Bai Jia,  Thank you so much for the compliment.  Every once and a while in the street I get someone that compliments the work I do for the Kingdom of God.  I am so busy.  At those times.  I have to say thank you quickly and move on.  

I actually got this idea for reaching young people from a much older woman.  In her 70s I believe.  It was at lunch with 2 other ladies.  They had invited me to lunch after services.  She had said mentioned just how open that young people are.  That reaching them while they are young is a fairly easy thing to do.  I figure as a grandmother. She just might know what she is talking about.  Sure enough handing out tracts.  They were reading them.  Young people are just getting acclimated to being social in the world.  I recognized all those things and thought what a wonderful idea.  I have her to thank for it I really do.  Of course Jesus Christ who brought us together. 

Edited May 29, 2015 by Potatochip