"make your calling and election sure"

[heartstrings]

This was taken from an article by a Calvinist, teaching 'perseverence of the saints'. It is, I believe, from the RSV(Revised Standard Version). Notice the wording in the last sentence of each and tell me if you notice a subtle but drastic difference in meaning between this and the KJB.

2 Peter 1:10 (RSV?)"Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

Here is what the King James says ....
2 Peter 1:10-11
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know this could be in the wrong forum, but it has to do with the security of the believer.

[Annie]

This was taken from an article by a Calvinist, teaching 'perseverence of the saints'. It is, I believe, from the RSV(Revised Standard Version). Notice the wording in the last sentence of each and tell me if you notice a subtle but drastic difference in meaning between this and the KJB.


Here is what the King James says ....
2 Peter 1:10-11
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I know this could be in the wrong forum, but it has to do with the security of the believer.

Hartstrings, what subtle but drastic difference do you see between these passages? Both are saying that believers should make sure they are saved, because if they're saved, they will never fall from grace, but rather be granted an entrance into heaven, the eternal kingdom of the Lord. Those who believe in the perseverence of the saints (or "once saved, always saved") use this passage as one foundation for that belief. A person who is truly, surely saved will never fall, but will surely be granted entrance into heaven.

[heartstrings]

Hartstrings, what subtle but drastic difference do you see between these passages? Both are saying that believers should make sure they are saved, because if they're saved, they will never fall from grace

Making "your calling and election sure" has absolutely nothing to do with making sure you are saved. Actually, it is speaking about Christian maturity [bible]2 Peter 1[/bible]. "Calling and election" is not referring to obtaining salvation; it speaks of duty and service. This passage is talking about adding to your faith, growing to maturity and serving God, thereby being fruitful, not falling into sin, and getting rewarded for it in Heaven.



This is saying you will be given "an entrance"...if you do thus and so

2 Peter 1:10 (RSV?)
"Therefore, brethren, be the more zealous to confirm your call and election, for if you do this you will never fall; so there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ."

And this one is referring to WHAT KIND of entrance you will be given....
2 Peter 1:10-11 KJB
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

[Annie]

This is saying you will be given "an entrance"...if you do thus and so



And this one is referring to WHAT KIND of entrance you will be given....
2 Peter 1:10-11 KJB
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I may be dense, but I'm still not seeing the difference between the two. Here they are side by side, with grammar/syntax indicated.

"an entrance": This word is the subject in both versions.
"will be provided"/"shall be ministered": These are the verbs. They mean the same thing.
So far, we have (in subject/verb order) "An entrance will be provided (or shall be ministered)."

Now, we have the adverbs (not adjectives describing "what kind of" entrance). They are richly and abundantly (and there, in the RSV). Again, these words are synonyms, both describing HOW the entrance will be ministered/provided. HOW will the entrance be ministered/provided? Richly/abundantly. Again, neither one of these words are adjectives describing what kind of entrance.
With these words added, we have the following:
An entrance (subject) will be provided/ministered (passive verb) richly/abundantly (adverb).

Then, we have the prepositional phrases, telling to whom this entrance will be ministered, into where the entrance is, and whose kingdom is being entered:
unto you (KJV)/for you (RSV)
into the everlasting kingdom (KJV)/into the eternal kingdom (RSV)
of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (both versions)

So, what we have (in subject/predicate order) is the following:
An entrance (subject) will be provided/ministered (passive verb) richly/abundantly (adverb) unto you/for you (prep phrase) into the everlasting/eternal kingdom (prep phrase) of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (prep phrase).

The grammar and syntax appear to be exactly the same, and communicate exactly the same thing. I'm not sure how you think one conveys a different meaning than the other. The word so, which you underlined in the KJV, is also found in the RSV. It is the conjunction that begins the clause. It is found in both versions, and performs the same function, although the words are in different order. (The subject comes before the verb in the KJV, and the subject comes after the verb in the RSV. But both are saying the same thing. The word so is in the same place, at the beginning of the clause.)

[heartstrings]

Maybe it is the same....
My bad.

[Wilchbla]

Thins different are not the same. At the very least they destroy any cross references to the passage of scripture.

[Guest Guest]

I'm afraid I don't see much difference between the two, sir.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[PastorHarrison]

I think its kind of humorous to see a Calvinist quote scripture that falls in line with the thousands of verses that demonstrate the irrefutability that salvation is up to the believer's choice to accept or reject. According to Calvin we can't make sure of anything cause we're too dead to do any "makin sure" and have to let God "make" it sure for us.... cute circular logic....

[heartstrings]

I'm afraid I don't see much difference between the two, sir.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

Well, I read it again and it just looks fishy to me. I'll just stick with the King James.

Here are some quotes from the same article on "perseverence of the saints".........

Election is unconditional, but glorification is not. There are many warnings in Scripture that those who do not hold fast to Christ can be lost in the end.

There is a falling away of some believers, but if it persists, it shows that their faith was not genuine and they were not born of God.

God killed Annanias and Saphira for lying to the Holy Ghost, and He was about to kill the man in 1 Corinthians who "had his father's wife", and old Brother Lot down in Sodom wasn't doing too much perseverence either.

Then he says this....

l John 2:l9, "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be made plain that they all are not of us." Similarly, the parable of the four soils as interpreted in Luke 8:9-l4 pictures people who "hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in a time of temptation fall away."

The fact that such a thing is possible is precisely why the ministry of the Word in every local church must contain many admonitions to the church members to persevere in faith and not be entangled in those things which could possibly strangle them and result in their condemnation.

While he is claiming that he, as a Calvinist, believes in Eternal Security, I think what he really means is that Eternal security does exist for the "elect"; but each member or non-member of that "elect" cannot be 100% sure if his own personal security until he has "persevered to the end" to "final salvation". Does that sound like he's teaching people to fully trust Christ and take God at His word? Doesn't to me.

The Bible never teaches "perseverance of the saints"..the word, in that context does not even appear. But it does teach spiritual growth, sanctification, and overcoming the world.

"Election", as I understand it, means chosen or established for a purpose. The Lord Jesus Christ is "elect".

"Predestination" simply means that the end, or destiny of "the elect" is comformity to the image of Christ.
If you are born again, that is your destiny and there is nothing you can do or not do to make it happen or prevent it.

"Foreknowledge", simply means God knows everything that will happen, before it happens.....as I understand it, simply means that the institution of "the elect", and their destiny, was designed, decreed, and determined in eternity past. In other words, the process and the outcome of the whole thing is of His design and will not take Him by surprise.. Yes, God knew each individual who would and would not be saved, but it is your choice whether you want to submit to God and become a part of His great and wonderful plan. God even knows if you will choose, but He gives you the choice.

When you respond positively to wooing power of the Holy Spirit, submit and give your heart to God, call on the name of Jesus in repentence and faith....Jesus will come into your heart and dwell there forever. At that moment, you also become one of those who are "chosen for service" ; that's now your purpose and your job. You become part of "the big picture",. And also at that moment your destiny is sealed, you become one of those who WILL be conformed to the image of Christ. In my finite and feeble mid, that's how I understand it.

[Reformation Man35]

Hello everyone, just taking a look at this post. Interesting thoughts....

[Invicta]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Who can come to Jesus?

John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Again I ask, "Who can come to Jesus?" Many disciples left because of this teaching.
John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

That teaching was not popular in Jesus day, any more than it is today. Many 'disciples' left, but the true disciples persevered.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
They hath everlasting life, not they will have. If they can lose it how can it be everlasting?

When Paul and Barnabus preached to the Gentiles, who believed and were saved?

Acts 13: 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

[John81]

[Revelation3:20]

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Who can come to Jesus?

"John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

All men are drawn by God at some point. They can resist that though.

[Reformation Man35]

Well, looks like a stand off to me...

[His by Grace]

:icon_pray:here!