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Revelation3:20

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  1. Two more passages for consideration "1 Samuel 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD. 3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee." "Jeremiah 38:14 Then Zedekiah the king sent, and took Jeremiah the prophet unto him into the third entry that is in the house of the LORD: and the king said unto Jeremiah, I will ask thee a thing; hide nothing from me. 15 Then Jeremiah said unto Zedekiah, If I declare it unto thee, wilt thou not surely put me to death? and if I give thee counsel, wilt thou not hearken unto me? 16 So Zedekiah the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, saying, As the LORD liveth, that made us this soul, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life. 17 Then said Jeremiah unto Zedekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; If thou wilt assuredly go forth unto the king of Babylon's princes, then thy soul shall live, and this city shall not be burned with fire; and thou shalt live, and thine house: 18 But if thou wilt not go forth to the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire, and thou shalt not escape out of their hand. 19 And Zedekiah the king said unto Jeremiah, I am afraid of the Jews that are fallen to the Chaldeans, lest they deliver me into their hand, and they mock me. 20 But Jeremiah said, They shall not deliver thee. Obey, I beseech thee, the voice of the LORD, which I speak unto thee: so it shall be well unto thee, and thy soul shall live. 21 But if thou refuse to go forth, this is the word that the LORD hath shewed me: 22 And, behold, all the women that are left in the king of Judah's house shall be brought forth to the king of Babylon's princes, and those women shall say, Thy friends have set thee on, and have prevailed against thee: thy feet are sunk in the mire, and they are turned away back. 23 So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire. 24 Then said Zedekiah unto Jeremiah, Let no man know of these words, and thou shalt not die. 25 But if the princes hear that I have talked with thee, and they come unto thee, and say unto thee, Declare unto us now what thou hast said unto the king, hide it not from us, and we will not put thee to death; also what the king said unto thee: 26 Then thou shalt say unto them, I presented my supplication before the king, that he would not cause me to return to Jonathan's house, to die there. 27 Then came all the princes unto Jeremiah, and asked him: and he told them according to all these words that the king had commanded. So they left off speaking with him; for the matter was not perceived. " Concerning the latter passage, Jeremiah had already been in and out of prison for speaking the word of the Lord and I doubt he would have done as the king instructed him to do if it was wrong to do so.
  2. That is a horribly inaccurate abuse of that passage. For one thing if you interpretation was correct it would mean that baptism comes first, and a "new heart" or salvation comes afterward. For another, look at the whole passage, it has to do with the future restoration and redemption of the nation of Israel, it has nothing at all to do with NT baptism. The sprinkling isn't even physical water, it is a spiritual awakening. I am putting you OT "proof" passage in red, and underlining and enlarging other portions of the passage that demonstrate just how far off and how badly taken out of context your interpretation of verse 25 is. Ezekiel 36: 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. 23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. 24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. 30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. 31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. 32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. 33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. 34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. 35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. 36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. 37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock. 38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD. There is no way you can say this passage does not apply directly to the literal land and people of Israel without spiritualizing the whole thing. If you do that then you just destroyed your own reasoning for accepting sprinkling in the first place.
  3. "John 3:23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." Sprinkling is not a valid form of believers baptism. There isn't a single case of believers baptism by sprinkling in scripture. If it had been valid to sprinkle there would have been no reason to for John to baptize where there was "much water". All he would need then would be a pitcher of "holy water" just like the catholics. One bad doctrine leads to another, and then on and on to end who knows where I suppose . I assume you are not yet accepting of infant "baptism" at least?
  4. Your twisting the statement and you know it. You might want to think about Proverbs 10:18
  5. It is far better they not go over that issue than go and the wife be constantly undermining the position of the church and chaffing over it.
  6. Those are fair points. The only thing I can think of that might favor the idea of "perpetual" sin is what John told Herod. "Mark 6:17-18 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her. For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife." I suppose there is a chance John only told him this before he married her, but if that was the case and this wasn't a case of continued sin I don't know why herodias would want to have John killed for it. I can see points for both sides on this issue but I don't see such strong evidence for it being perpetual sin to encourage those who have been remarried after divorce split up.
  7. Jeremiah 3:1 touches on it in passing too.
  8. Possibly this passage applies. "Ephesians 5:11-12 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."
  9. That is the sobering truth isn't it. If firm lines are not drawn on important doctrinal matters truth is usually diluted over time and before you know it you have nearly as much error as truth which in turn attracts more error and slowly drives out the truth that remains. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
  10. Perhaps you do. Perhaps the Lord is using this to show you some more things that do not honor him.
  11. One church can't "steal" members from another. Property is stolen, and members should not be viewed like that. Sadly some pastors seem as if they almost do regard church members as property which can be lost or "stolen". Sometimes there is a little to much ego involved. I do think it is wise to find out why someone is starting to attend you church if they previously attended another sound church in the general area. To often people switch churches for petty reasons and that should be discouraged for their own good and for the good of what ever church they are trying to join. People who leave one church for petty reasons usually make a habit of it while sowing strife all along the way.
  12. While I would agree this is generally true it is not always true. Else how could you reconcile 1 Kings 15:11-14 and 2 Chronicles 16? I think it would be more accurate to say that if a believer is continuing in sin he will suffer for it because "whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth". Asa by all appearances died in sin, but it is also apparent he was being chastened for his sin.
  13. Yes, it is possible, it is what is commonly known as "backsliding". What happened was Peter discovered that the Lord was not as important to him as he had thought. He told the Lord before he denied him that he was willing to die for him and I am sure he meant it, he just didn't know his own heart as Jesus did. When Peter discovered that he didn't love the Lord as much as he had thought he had a "crisis of faith" so to speak and it changed his outlook. He went from confidently saying that he was willing to die for the Lord to a far less confident attitude when Christ asked him if he loved him after the resurrection( John 21:15-17). When Christ asks Peter if he loves him the word agapa? is used which is a strong term. Yet when Peter replies that he does love the Lord he uses the word phile? which isn't nearly as strong as the word the Lord used. Peter has become a lot more humble and is in a position to be better used of God. That verse must be balanced with this passage: 2 Timothy 2:11-13 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. By comparing scripture with scripture we must come to the conclusion the Christian can loose rewards and hurt his relationship with Christ by denying him in word or deed, but because Christ himself is faithful our failures cannot effect our salvation. Once we are saved the preservation of our salvation depends on his faithfulness not on ours while our rewards depend at least in part on our faithfulness to him. The parts that speak about him denying us if we deny him may well be the balance to passages like John 14:13-14 which obviously isn't the blank check it initially sounds like. In other words limited or no answered prayer and a severely limited relationship the more we are denying Christ in our lives. The closer our lives are to his the less he needs to deny us.
  14. That passage is in the same category as Hebrews 6:4-9. Both passages are describing a man that God is calling and that man comes right up to the brink of salvation, understands it, and then choses for some reason to turn and walk away rather than accept it. God then may choose to allow that mans heart to be hardened to the point that he cannot believe and be saved, in which case that man has drawn back "unto perdition". We know that these passages are not speaking of those who have already been saved because of other verses that teach eternal security and because a clear distinction is made in the passages themselves. In Hebrews 10:39 the writer essentially tells them they don't have to worry about verse 38 because they have already believed. Likewise in Hebrews 6:9 the writer says he believes they have been saved and so he does not think the content of Hebrews 6:4-8 applies to them.
  15. People who live Godly and don't just talk Godly.

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