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Revelation3:20

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  1. Two more passages for consideration "1 Samuel 16:1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD. 3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee." "Jeremiah 38:14 Then Zedekiah the king sent, and took Jeremiah the prophet unto him into the third entry that is in the house of the LORD: and the king said unto Jeremiah, I will ask thee a thing; hide nothing from me. 15 Then Jeremiah said unto Zedekiah, If I declare it unto thee, wilt thou not surely put me to death? and if I give thee counsel, wilt thou not hearken unto me? 16 So Zedekiah the king sware secretly unto Jeremiah, saying, As the LORD liveth, that made us this soul, I will not put thee to death, neither will I give thee into the hand of these men that seek thy life. 17 Then said Jeremiah unto Zedekiah, Thus saith the LORD, the God of hosts, the God of Israel; If thou wilt assuredly go forth unto the king of Babylon's princes, then thy soul shall live, and this city shall not be burned with fire; and thou shalt live, and thine house: 18 But if thou wilt not go forth to the king of Babylon's princes, then shall this city be given into the hand of the Chaldeans, and they shall burn it with fire, and thou shalt not escape out of their hand. 19 And Zedekiah the king said unto Jeremiah, I am afraid of the Jews that are fallen to the Chaldeans, lest they deliver me into their hand, and they mock me. 20 But Jeremiah said, They shall not deliver thee. Obey, I beseech thee, the voice of the LORD, which I speak unto thee: so it shall be well unto thee, and thy soul shall live. 21 But if thou refuse to go forth, this is the word that the LORD hath shewed me: 22 And, behold, all the women that are left in the king of Judah's house shall be brought forth to the king of Babylon's princes, and those women shall say, Thy friends have set thee on, and have prevailed against thee: thy feet are sunk in the mire, and they are turned away back. 23 So they shall bring out all thy wives and thy children to the Chaldeans: and thou shalt not escape out of their hand, but shalt be taken by the hand of the king of Babylon: and thou shalt cause this city to be burned with fire. 24 Then said Zedekiah unto Jeremiah, Let no man know of these words, and thou shalt not die. 25 But if the princes hear that I have talked with thee, and they come unto thee, and say unto thee, Declare unto us now what thou hast said unto the king, hide it not from us, and we will not put thee to death; also what the king said unto thee: 26 Then thou shalt say unto them, I presented my supplication before the king, that he would not cause me to return to Jonathan's house, to die there. 27 Then came all the princes unto Jeremiah, and asked him: and he told them according to all these words that the king had commanded. So they left off speaking with him; for the matter was not perceived. " Concerning the latter passage, Jeremiah had already been in and out of prison for speaking the word of the Lord and I doubt he would have done as the king instructed him to do if it was wrong to do so.
  2. Your twisting the statement and you know it. You might want to think about Proverbs 10:18
  3. It is far better they not go over that issue than go and the wife be constantly undermining the position of the church and chaffing over it.
  4. Those are fair points. The only thing I can think of that might favor the idea of "perpetual" sin is what John told Herod. "Mark 6:17-18 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her. For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife." I suppose there is a chance John only told him this before he married her, but if that was the case and this wasn't a case of continued sin I don't know why herodias would want to have John killed for it. I can see points for both sides on this issue but I don't see such strong evidence for it being perpetual sin to encourage those who have been remarried after divorce split up.
  5. Jeremiah 3:1 touches on it in passing too.
  6. Possibly this passage applies. "Ephesians 5:11-12 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret."
  7. That is the sobering truth isn't it. If firm lines are not drawn on important doctrinal matters truth is usually diluted over time and before you know it you have nearly as much error as truth which in turn attracts more error and slowly drives out the truth that remains. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
  8. What does Genesis 9:20 say? it says " Noah began to be an husbandman". It may well have been that he became drunken without realizing what was happening. I serious doubt he had a habit of drunkenness. What makes you think it was unjust? the only way the curse would have any effect is if the curse was from God. Would God bring to pass a unjust curse pronounced by a man with a hangover? Before we think to poorly of Noah and proclaim that he was acting unjustly we should consider that God consistently uses him as an example of a very righteous man. "Ezekiel 14:12-14 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying, Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and JOB, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD." So if an all knowing God picks Noah as an example of one of the three most righteous men in his sight who have lived up to that point maybe we should think twice about considering him to be a backsliden drunkard pronouncing unjust curses while suffering from a hangover. There might have been a lot more to the story than what little bit is revealed in scripture.
  9. Perhaps you do. Perhaps the Lord is using this to show you some more things that do not honor him.
  10. One church can't "steal" members from another. Property is stolen, and members should not be viewed like that. Sadly some pastors seem as if they almost do regard church members as property which can be lost or "stolen". Sometimes there is a little to much ego involved. I do think it is wise to find out why someone is starting to attend you church if they previously attended another sound church in the general area. To often people switch churches for petty reasons and that should be discouraged for their own good and for the good of what ever church they are trying to join. People who leave one church for petty reasons usually make a habit of it while sowing strife all along the way.
  11. Yes, but the only reason those in Matt 7:21-23 thought they were saved was because they were trusting in the wrong thing. In their minds it was all about what they had done for God rather than the other way around. Not one of them said "Lord didn't I trust in your shed blood and finished work and ask you to save me?"
  12. There isn't any way we can know exactly who it was from scripture. All we can say is that the man was an OT believer. Beyond that it is complete speculation. If we venture to far in speculation it is easy to make mistakes.
  13. There is nothing wrong with logic, God gave us the ability to reason and expects us to use it. It only becomes a prOBlem when man thinks to highly of his ability to reason and foolishly thinks he can argue with God. That would be like a first grader arguing with a college math professor and telling him his math is wrong on a advanced equation. The first grader would be so far short of level the college professor is at that the first grader wouldn't even be able to understand what the professor was doing let alone be in a position to correct him. Faith would be the first grader realizing and reasoning that the professor knows a lot more about math than he does and therefore believing the professor to be right even if he couldn't understand the professors equation with his first grade math. Just like in that illustration even faith itself originates in the ability to reason. Our reasoning ability can show us areas where we know that what God said is true, that builds trust, and trust builds faith. If faith was completely blind we would have no basis for believing God and the bible over buddhism, islam, the book of mormon or any other false religion you could think of.
  14. Not to get sidetracked from the issue, but the jews did play a very important if little known part in the American revolution. Many have said the war could not have been won without this man in particular. Haym Solomon
  15. Look at two more biblical examples in the life of Elisha then. "2 Kings 8:7-15 And Elisha came to Damascus; and Benhadad the king of Syria was sick; and it was told him, saying, The man of God is come hither. And the king said unto Hazael, Take a present in thine hand, and go, meet the man of God, and inquire of the LORD by him, saying, Shall I recover of this disease? So Hazael went to meet him, and took a present with him, even of every good thing of Damascus, forty camels burden, and came and stood before him, and said, Thy son Benhadad king of Syria hath sent me to thee, saying, Shall I recover of this disease? And Elisha said unto him, Go, say unto him, Thou mayest certainly recover: howbeit the LORD hath shewed me that he shall surely die. And he settled his countenance stedfastly, until he was ashamed: and the man of God wept. And Hazael said, Why weepeth my lord? And he answered, Because I know the evil that thou wilt do unto the children of Israel: their strong holds wilt thou set on fire, and their young men wilt thou slay with the sword, and wilt dash their children, and rip up their women with child. And Hazael said, But what, is thy servant a dog, that he should do this great thing? And Elisha answered, The LORD hath shewed me that thou shalt be king over Syria. So he departed from Elisha, and came to his master; who said to him, What said Elisha to thee? And he answered, He told me that thou shouldest surely recover. And it came to pass on the morrow, that he took a thick cloth, and dipped it in water, and spread it on his face, so that he died: and Hazael reigned in his stead." Elisha instructs Hazael to tell the syrian king that he would recover, yet he knew he was going to die. At very best Elisha is instructing Hazael to be tricky and misleading, at worst he is telling him to lie. "2 Kings 6:15-19 And when the servant of the man of God was risen early, and gone forth, behold, an host compassed the city both with horses and chariots. And his servant said unto him, Alas, my master! how shall we do? 16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them. And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha. And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha. And Elisha said unto them, This is not the way, neither is this the city: follow me, and I will bring you to the man whom ye seek. But he led them to Samaria." Here Elisha lies during a time of war to the men God has stricken with blindness at his request. There is no indication from the context that he was wrong to do so.
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